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Deciduous tree/bush ID please

5 years ago

This deciduous bush/tree volunteered in our yard about 10 years ago. It gets very little water. No noticeable flowering. I am in zone 9a (CA coast).

Featured Answer

Embothrium

5 years ago

last modified: 5 years ago

The 2012 edition of The New Western Garden Book (Time Home Entertainment Inc., New York) does have pecans zoned for areas other than Sunset 16. However plantings of pecan trees in the Seattle arboretum (Sunset 5, not indicated by the Book as a suitable zone for them) have included one that was over 86 ft. tall and another that was over 88 ft. tall - both around 2005. The first example had a history of setting a small number of fruits but never ripening any of them.

Whichever species the tree asked about here is - although it is producing some pretty good looking foliage and growth now - the low forking habit and history of comparatively slow development would both be due to the growing site not being one conducive to a more robust response.

But as it is likely to be a walnut family tree the neighborhood would not have to be one where fruiting examples of the same kind where present. The seed could instead have originated from human snacking and/or littering (a roadway appears to be nearby) or perhaps even feeding of animals by people.

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Comments (34)

User
5 years ago
Looks like it might be Ailanthus (Tree of Heaven/HELL).

I am East coastal though and probably better to rely on a local (I didn't even know these grew out there!). Still, try this test, take a leaflet and crush it with your fingers, if it smells nutty, it's Ailanthus!
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
I just looked it up in my Western Garden Book and it does grow here. Planted in the 1800's in CA gold country "where it now runs wild". Grows under adverse conditions and sometimes condemned as a weed. "It is the tree that survived against all odds in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn." I think I'll keep it as it now can be a conversation piece. Thank you for its ID.
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Pretty positive you have an American White Ash, based on its long leaflet petioles. Check bud scar on end of multi leaflet leaf where unattached from branch. Leaf end of White type will resemble big smile, while Green bud scar is "D" shaped. White Ash is usually one of last species to be killed off by EAB, and Green Ash being one of first succumbing to exponentially building local infestation populations. If you would like to become your most knowledgeable locally regarding EAB and Ash trees checking out my Scottie Ash Seed blog https://scottieashseed.wordpress.com/ fatamorgana2121, there is no stopping spread of EAB from Canada down to panama. Only delaying inevitable arrival to give local community time to prepare. But we have found a god-sent cure for EAB, which besides fully protecting treated trees two years. Treated trees help substantially lower local borer populations so dramatically that untreated trees within same area survive some 3 or more years longer. Sadly it seems that every new town discovering their first borers must swallow all the outdated misinformation supplied by well intentioned local arborist building experience from past list of facts already learned about DED dutch elm disease over past 45 years. Like...once trees become infected, expensive treatment applications required for remaining life of diseased tree, insecticides have poor success rates, ash is short lived weed tree not worth saving, even treated trees continue to slowly decline and also inevitably need removal. It may all sound familiar, but has absolutely nothing to do with managing ash from EAB. Since DED and EAB have nothing in common. Some local arborist fancying themselves experts, may never learn more than they did when EAB first arrived, after 10+ years later when most trees have died off by then. For myself its like flying back from space after actually personally seeing physical evidence that our planet is indeed round, then facing countless experts who eloquently argue so strongly that Earth is flat. They even get me thinking I might be wrong, and should be committed after holding such a preposterous view. (On a side note, why had no one in past predict what other side of Moon looked like. Most had probably failed to even think Moon had another side. Then when Astronauts orbited around to other side of moon and took pictures, conspiracy theorists then thought it impossible for humans to safely fly through the Van Allen radiation belt) Only improper application of well proven treatment causes further decline. Products applied against EAB can be even cheaper than fertilizing tree each spring. Even highest cost for Tree-age is not even 1/4th cost of treatment for Elm. If cost of removal $600 or higher, same amount can easily protect tree until selling property or until fatal damaging borer infestation populations inevitably pass locally within 10-12 years. Here in Chicago where first borer discovered in 2006, probably arriving in year 2000 before building up enough population to cause observable damage. As of last year 2017, and especially this year of 2018. Any unprotected trees lucky to survive main event have already been recovering on their own after borer numbers crashed. Since American Ash trees are directly related to super long lived Olive tree family which boasts longest living trees ever planted by humans. Green Ash reaches true maturity from 180-220 and has 300 year lifespan, same as Blue Ash which settlers first dyed jeans blue using bark extract. American White Ash was one of three long lived native species having young trees fashioned by indians into trail marker trees, along with Burr & White Oak. White Ash matures from 350-450, and has 600 year possible lifespan. And why I suggest communities search for their most historically valuable endangered Heritage and Legacy class Ash. White Ash George Washington's father had planted is now 250 old and being protected by national park service. Enjoy!
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Embothrium
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Too glossy for the Ailanthus and the general aspect looks different. Perhaps instead one of the walnut (Juglans) species characteristic of the region - if so source tree is likely to be visible nearby, as the large nuts usually don't travel very far.

http://calflora.org/cgi-bin/specieslist.cgi?namesoup=juglans&countylist=any&plantcomm=any&format=photos&orderby=taxon
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gyr_falcon
5 years ago
I think it looks more like Schinus terebinthifolia (Brazllian Pepper). Not a keeper, in my experience.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
Photos of that one:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=schinus+terebinthifolius&qpvt=schinus+terebinthifolius&FORM=IARRSM
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earline_pa zone 6 Pa.
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
If this were a tree of heaven it would be huge after 10 years. It's too small for toh, luckily for you.
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
It is not Brazilian Pepper as we have those too on our property. The leaves DO look like juglans but I don't see any flowers or nuts. Maybe that's because it gets no care? I also don't see any other juglans nearby. I found some aphids on the leaves upon closer inspection. Whatever it is (the mystery tree?) it's one tough plant. It gets no water other that our rain which lately hasn't been even close (drought) to normal.
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gyr_falcon
5 years ago
I missed the note it was deciduous.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Even at 10 years could just be too young to flower - there's no kind of tree that doesn't flower, except for aberrant individuals.
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PRO
The Logician LLC
5 years ago
Base of Ailanthus leaflets have 2 or more little teeth/notches, not visible in your photo.

Walnut does not have the leaflet notches.
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bengz6westmd
5 years ago
The way the leaflets curve is almost like pecan.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
And that one - like your tree - is quite glossy also:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=carya+illinoinensis&qpvt=carya+illinoinensis&FORM=IARRSM
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
Pecan trees don't grow in this zone and my book says they need regular water.I also do not see any teeth/notches at the base of each leaflet.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Where in CA are you that "pecan trees don't grow in this zone"? (Best results are gotten from questions posted here that indicate where the growing sites or locations of found plants are geographically).

Pecan in California

The most acreage of cultivated (improved) pecan production is in Georgia, with significant cultivation also in the southern tier of states from Alabama to California

Although pecan trees have existed in California for more than a century, the first commercial orchard in California was established in the mid 1970s in the Clovis area. Since then, pecan production has spread throughout the central valley

Pecan nuts typically require long, hot summers for proper maturation, typical of the current growing areas

http://fruitandnuteducation.ucdavis.edu/fruitnutproduction/Pecan/
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
Zone 16 in Western Garden Book. It must not get cold enough in winter here. Your description says it needs "long, hot summers" which we also don't get here. My original post says I am in zone 9a (USDA).
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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
5 years ago
I know nothing about growing pecans but the requirement for long hot summers could be for the reliable production of nuts. The tree itself could survive without them. It just might not fruit.
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
Good point, floral.
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
All of you helped me narrow it down to either a pecan or a black walnut and thanks to this web site https://www.hunker.com/13424453/how-to-identify-the-leaves-of-black-walnut-or-pecan I have determined it's a black walnut. The undersides of the leaves are fuzzy and the leaves don't have a bad scent. If I give it some water maybe I'll get some nuts!
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dbarron
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
It's not a black walnut. That's my favorite nut and it grows all over the place here, have one in my yard in fact.
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
Oh no, back to square one!
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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
5 years ago
Is it possible to provide more pictures? We can't see bark, buds, leaf attachment, undersides or even a clear view of an entire leaf.
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
It

More photos.....It is multi-trunked
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dbarron
5 years ago
It does look consistent to a pecan, but I wouldn't say it was one (for sure).
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
dbarron, Did you see the link I posted on Friday and my observations? It doesn't fit the description of a pecan.
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dbarron
5 years ago
I guess not.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
To settle the question of the genus try looking at the pith:

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=10460
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
Here's the pith. What do we think?
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carol23_gw
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
http://ww2.odu.edu/~lmusselm/plant/index.php?todo=plant&id=1279

https://cgru.usda.gov/carya/species/pith.jpg
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Ann Thurston
Original Author
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Not very clear pith photo but it definitely does not look chambered. I think it's neither a walnut not a pecan.
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bengz6westmd
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Again, this looks like pecan. Pith above looks correct, and slightly backward-curving, glossy leaflets are characteristic.
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carol23_gw
5 years ago
Calflora records pecan trees on their link.

http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-taxon=Carya+illinoinensis
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fatamorgana2121
5 years ago
I'd think a young Carya looking at the bark.
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Embothrium
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
And there are foliage shots on the Bing pages I linked to on August 6th that look just like the tree being asked about.
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