Would you actually use two living rooms as drawn on your last revision? Most people tend to use one room, whether it is called a living room, great room, family room, or whatever. I feel that every square inch of a home should actually be used. I would make one nice living room area, with either french doors or a sliding glass door onto the porch. As far as the stair placement goes, could you have a nice open foyer where they could be placed on one wall, and then continue on it the living room area from there. It would be nice and open, while allowing for furniture placement in the living room area. The stair placement drives the loft design though, so you may not like what it does. I like kitchens that open into a living area. In your first drawing the main thing I see is that the space between the island and kitchen table is way too tight, and I would not like the door placement to the porch from the kitchen. It's "off" and doesn't flow right. The porch can be easily used from the kitchen through doors from the living room. We are designing a floor plan right now ourselves, and it is amazing what changes we have made over the past several months. It is just my husband and I now, so I can build my home without a bunch of bedrooms. We are building it the way that WE want. We are basically going to have the master and a large sewing studio. If we do get a guest they can sleep in the sewing studio. I want larger rooms, and less of them. We are also keeping the square footage down to around 1700 sq. ft. I've decided against a loft, because I have found I never really liked living with huge vaulted ceilings. Wherever the loft isn't, the ceiling is a monster. The solution is to flat ceiling most of the house with the loft above it, but I didn't want that either. I do love being up in lofts though. The other thing I have had to let go of is my desire to have a built in island. I've wanted an island as long as I can remember. I just couldn't make it work with the clearances and flow I wanted. I think I can have a nice portable one made though that can either store when not needed on a wall, and/or do double duty as a cutting table in my sewing room. I usually only want an island when doing lots of baking or cooking for company. My changes in thinking about our house are not meant to imply that you should think and do as I am. I only mentioned them because frustration sets in while designing a home, and an evolvement process happens as a result. If you are stuck on a certain aspect and can't get past it, it means that something isn't quite right...for you. Sometimes it takes a while to figure it out. What figured out the loft/no loft thing for me was taking the time to go through a few model log homes. I'll always love the sewing loft idea, but for me, and me only, the tradeoff wasn't worth it. We are middle aged now and I want to keep the home manageable for when we are old. Oh, and be sure to put plenty of dish storage near your dishwasher and to the table. The dishwasher should go next to the sink for ease of use. Good luck. I know you are doing lots of head banging right now. It's easier to erase lines on paper than move it while under construction. You'll eventually get it. Sandy

bmorepanic- Thanks so much for trying to brainstorm, this one has had us stumped for months now! Your plan would solve a lot of our problems, unfortunately in the dinette area the existing five windows are almost floor to ceiling (the sills are only 18" from the floor). I agree, in our kitchen seating was given prominence by the builder, and the working area not so much... Lets see if I can explain the view situation - the dinette area faces the front of the house and the view is in the back. The dining room has two walls of windows, and if you're seated at the kitchen table you have a direct view over the dining room table through them and also through the kitchen door which is full glass. The windows around the table look out over the front yard and the neighborhood. A window on the refrigerator wall would look directly at our next door neighbors' house and deck, which isn't that far away. We do like having a big table in the kitchen because we tend to relax there and it's my favorite spot in the house to sit. Also, my parents spend time here and the big table is nice to have then. (Oh, you asked which way the ceiling joists run - it's front to back...) If we are stuck with the original two ideas which do you think would be the best? Thanks for the help!

I'm thinking that if the dining room table ends up full of clutter /used as a drop zone, the best answer is to organize the house in such a way that this DOESN'T happen! What's the source of the clutter? If it's school bags, include something like lockers in the utility room. If it's paper and junk mail, consider some sort of collection-spot by the front door. I personally think moving the dining room table to the bump-out is a brilliant idea because it'll bring in more light, regardless of what you choose don't just accept and plan a major part of the house to be for clutter ! I understand the idea of wanting your kitchen -- not always the cleanest spot -- to be hidden from view, and keeping it in the back of the house IS a good idea; however, that's not the only way to accomplish this goal. A two-level island could do the same thing. A well-planned kitchen (with ample storage) that encourages you to keep things neat could do the same thing. I also have two girls, who are now 18 and 21. A divided bathroom is not a "need". It's not even a positive! Items of architectural interest that don't cost a fortune. You really have to do some reading to figure out what things YOU like, but here are a couple ideas: The dining room in the plan we're going to build is set up much like yours, and this bookcase over banquette in the dining room is a picture I've had a long time. It's not particularly expensive, but it is more interesting than a plain wall. A thick wall walk-through is more interesting than a skinny wall (and this kind of harkens to the problem I pointed out with the skinny wall near the foyer). Note that this wall isn't just thick for no reason: It hides a bookcase /chest of drawers. The curved doorway is expensive, but the storage-placed-in-wall-to-make-it-look-thicker isn't. CPArtist, I don't think it's that the OP doesn't want to create a house with architectural interest; rather, I think she isn't far enough into this project yet to recognize what that means. The answer, of course, is reading and studying. I personally would put the master bedroom back door in the bedroom. I think it's a bit odd in the bathroom, but that is personal opinion. Kids can't sneak out of 5 acres? Oh, please! I grew up with a 5-acre front yard and two 15-acre side yards; the woods and farm were behind the house! And while none of us five were really sneak-outers, an occasional person may've snuck IN without our parents' knowledge. The secret is to have the friend park just out of sight and walk over. This is a parenting issue, not something that can be avoided by organizing the house "just so". Anytime you say, "My kids will never ___ because of ___", you're kidding yourself! MadEye Moody, a wise wizard, told us: Constant vigilance! If you intend to care for the elderly in this house one day, you should definitely make some changes in the bathroom -- that's the #1 thing that causes people trouble in their homes as they age. I suggest you do some reading on Universal Design or Aging-in-Place. You'll find loads of small things you can do now that'll make your "retirement job" possible in the future. Hearing that you're planning on hobby farming, I'm copying the same thing I just wrote on another post a few minutes ago -- It's about a showers in mudrooms: As for a shower in the mudroom, it's not so practical as it sounds: You walk in and want to take a shower before you enter "the house proper". So you walk into the mudroom, dragging in dirt, then get into the shower (be sure to allot space for a hamper for dirty clothes) ... then, although you're clean, your clothes are still all the way across the house. So do you walk across the house in your towel? Hope your kids don't have friends over. A better plan: The real problem is YOUR FEET. So instead of a mudroom shower, go with a nice big foot wash just outside the house (or in a garage); it could double as a dog wash. Make it maybe 2x3 tile, and include a low spigot, a drain and maybe a spray so you can really squirt off the mud. Place a rack or shelf for wet shoes right by the foot wash. Place your foot wash right by the back door so that once your feet are clean, you're ready to step right into the house (obviously you don't want to walk across the yard with your now-clean feet). Once you're in the house, go straight to your own bathroom, where you have your own towels, toiletries, and clean clothes.

Things I'd reconsider: - The exterior is a series of jigs-and-jogs, which will drive up the price and complicate the roofline ... for zero benefit. For example, why a bitty outdoor space between the master bedroom and the living room? Simplify everything. - The bloated garage overshadows the size of the house. If you really want four bays (why?), I'd suggest you go for two two-car garages set at a 90 degree angle so they can share a driveway. - Half-bath in the garage: you want the toilet and the sink to be on the same wall. It's space-efficient and functional, and it keeps all your water in one wall. - I agree that the kitchen is a mess. The garage door would be better located so you'd enter between the kitchen /dining area; this would give you a more direct route into the house and would avoid walking through the work area of the kitchen. I can't read the numbers, but the layout needs work. - Notice that the pantry door swing covers almost 1/3 of your shelves, but you won't really be able to step into the pantry /close the door to reach those shelves. A bi-fold door -- other options would work too -- would work better. - A sliding door in the dining room would be better; walking around the swing door will not be convenient. Note that when people are sitting at the table, access to this door -- your only public access to the backyard -- will be hindered. - That's a very big covered porch -- why so much space? My covered porch is 12x30, and it's "just right" ... we have a seating area on one end, a small table in the middle, and a grilling area on the end. People can walk past the table without anyone needing to move. - We've seen this master suite before on this site. Honestly, nothing works in this bathroom /laundry /closet area -- by far, it's the weak spot of the house. It's a bunch of choppy little spaces and an excessive number of doors. It's not going to be attractive or functional. - A foyer is important to you, but look at the location of your door. When you enter that door, you'll be pushed towards the right ... not towards the living room.