Is this Charles de Mills?
I planted this rose last year and there are a few indications that make me wonder if it is Charles de Mills as I thought it was. I read that it's supposed to be largely disease resistant, but right away mine was prone to rust, then came blackspots, mildew and whatnot, it just often gets very sickly. None of my other roses get rust or mildew. It's also chlorotic like some of my other roses with multiflora in their blood. Then came the blooms this year, only about 4-5, small in size, not flat, and their color didn't have a hint of purple. I don't know if its lighter color is due to its young age. One of the blooms did show a center button which is consistent with CdM, but some other roses probably have it too. The greatest difference between this rose and the descriptions of Charles de Mills are the thorns. It is supposed to be nearly thornless, but mine has both prickles and thorns all along the canes.
Could you please help me identify this rose? If it's not Charles de Mills then I would order it again because I would love to have it for its large beautiful dark purple blooms. Thank you.
Comments (6)
vesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)
5 years agoThank you, Jackie. I'll definitely keep this rose even if it doesn't turn out to be Charles de Mills. I also hope that the color is due to its age. I bought it for the dark purple/dark red color in memory of my Mom because it was her favorite rose color. That's why I'd like to know if it's CdM and order it soon again in case it isn't.
The main difference that I see is in the presence of many thorns all along the canes. It's practically impossible to touch any cane without gloves but the descriptions say that it should be almost thornless. I also looked at some photos showing smooth canes, more or less, which definitely is not the case with my rose. Hope these additional photos, showing closeups of thorns & prickles, will shed more light.
The main cane has even larger thorns but I am not good at taking photos. These look very different from much smoother canes on Charles de Mills as, for example, shown here at Sissinghurst:
http://vanessainnes-wagstaff.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DSC_0485.jpg
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Charles de Mills suckers
Comments (10)If you plant a rose in fall in the northeast you are most likely condemning it to a early death. Frankly I would just chop one that is closer to the mother plant, put into water for transport, plant it at new location, and pray it takes. You can even make some temporory shade structure for it, would help out some. Keep it moist as well. I woudlnt bother with any potting, nor would I wait till fall. Face it, we can have killing frosts as early as late august, its hard to predict, ive seen it as late as oct 21st once. But late, nice falls are not common here. (this october we had a 20 inch snowstorm for comparison.) Planting it after Sept 20th, is just too harsh here, we would normally already see a killing frost or two. Silverkelt...See MoreAn interesting mystery -- 'Charles de Mills' NOT
Comments (3)THANK YOU! I was hoping it wasn't incorrect, and I started thinking maybe it was 'Mme Zoetmans', which would be a happy mystery-solved. But I'd rather it be 'Charles de Mills'. And yes, these tiny buds are only just barely uncovered, and what little shows beneath the green is white. So maybe they'll color up in the next few days. I greatly appreciate your guidance here and with my earlier questions, mad_gallica! After my post about how far own-root Gallicas spread, I took a measuring tape to the two beds where I want to plant them. I'll be fine doing 4'-5' between them, as you suggested, especially with one less ('Belle de Crecy' didn't get shipped) and if I put the two or three "less rampant spreaders" ('Nouveau Monde', 'Duchesse d'Angouleme' and/or 'Duchesse de Montebello') elsewhere. :-) ~Christopher...See MoreCharles de Mills rose
Comments (66)Marlorena, I agree. As I mentioned in my first post, getting a budded CdM and planting it with the bud union above the mulch line would avoid all this. The UK simply doesn't get as cold as it does where gardeners are advised to plant the bud union below the mulch line, which would set Chuck free. Elsewhere, Gallicas are popular in areas with Winters too cold for many other roses, and that's where running problems can occur if the bud union gets enough soil contact for the rose to go own-root. I suppose one could cover them for Winter, then uncover after the last hard freezes in Spring, as a compromise. I kept mentioning its potential spread as a warning to make sure to leave the bud union uncovered since Darren is kinda new to old roses. Paul, I remember you mentioning the expanse of your CdM before, and it brought that picture to my brain. It's why any own-root Gallicas at the cemetery will be in island beds around high-limbed trees, surrounded by turf and/or paved paths. I'm looking to try budding as well for roses notoriously difficult to root, but I'm afraid that it may get too cold here to leave the bud unions above the soil line through Winters, so I won't rely upon that to make any Gallicas "safe" enough for mixed beds. 'Charles de Mills' may just have to be planted in a trench dug between wild shrubbery/trees and grass in the background. There are quite a few spots like that there. :-) ~Christopher...See MoreCharles de Mills vs Tuscany Superb?
Comments (4)You have a great collection of Paul Barden roses, Sheila. Dianella, I think TS is more fragrant than Charles de Mills but ChdM has a nice fragrance. Both sucker here though ChdM is not as bad here as some places. ChdM has bigger blooms. TS is a deeper color. A long time ago a lady in TX used to post about her Gallicas ...it was interesting to see they did well in a hot climate. Her name is Melba. In my zone 7a NC climate most Gallicas do well and bloom well but I have one, Duchesse de Buccleugh, that will not bloom if the winter is mild. Charles de Mills Tuscany Superb Neither one is bs free here but not bad. My tallest Gallica is The Shell Rose. It's 5' or 6' tall, arching. Has narrow canes and little pompon blooms. I planted a second ChdM plant in a very tough location in a very gravelly spot that's hot and dry and it is doing pretty well. Gets morning sun and the leaves stay healthier on that one than my plant in more shade. I think a number of once bloomers are pretty tough....See Morevesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)
5 years ago
Brandon Garner St. Louis area z6
5 years agovesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY) thanked Brandon Garner St. Louis area z6vesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)
5 years agolast modified: 5 years ago
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