I like the last one but the dw needs to be closer to the sink, also make sure to check specs on refrigerator to avoid clearance issues

maybe you can swap the dw to the left or right of the sink

if you provide dimension I can play with it a little

What’s through the doorways on the top wall and the right wall?

The dining room is to the right. And the living room is to the top. The stairs down to the foyer (the house is a sidesplit) are opposite the opening in the top wall.

The room is 16' x 11'. Counters have been drawn at 25" deep. Fridge and stove are drawn at 30" wide.

The dishwasher has a prep sink adjacent to deal with clean-up. My sister wants it out of the work triangle since dishes are her husband's domain.

36 inches minimum for aisles around islands, and that one looks a little too skinny to be practical. Also, the dishwasher should be immediately next to the sink so that you can rinse dishes and put them right in. The fridge likely will have issues opening being so close to the wall. Consider moving it to the pantry wall.

I think trying to plan on your own before hiring a KD just creates more issues. People tend to get ideas stuck in their heads, and by the time a pro comes around, they're unwilling or unable to listen to their advice. Having some ideas are great, but planning too much is usually a mistake.

Can you swap the DW and refrigerator positions in the last drawing?

I would want a bigger sink for cleanup next to the DW.

11' is SUCH a frustrating measurement for a kitchen, IMO. It's a bit too wide for workspaces/cabinet runs across from each other on the walls to be convenient, but a bit too narrow to make an island work easily. Your island plan COULD work, but I think you will have to lose the shallow pantry and leave that wall empty. 32" and 34" aisles are really tight. I had a 36" aisle in my old galley kitchen and it was fine for me as a single cook, but with two cooks it was kind of a pain, and any smaller would have been a nightmare.

That said, I think your second plan is a really good use of space for a two-person kitchen, especially given this kitchen's unique traffic flow. Having the DW and smaller "cleanup" sink confined to the other side of the room keeps the mess away from the main prep space.

What's the next room from the fridge? The dining room?

What's the next room where the larger opening is?

Too bad you can't remove the wall with the long pantry on it altogether and open up the space.

@erinsean, I actually would prefer to swap the DW and fridge. Sister is resistant because she and hubby dont "dance" well together in the kitchen and he's in charge of dishes. So I stuck a prep sink beside the DW. I'm looking forward to sharing everyone's feedback with her so she'll know I'm not insane. ;)

@Sina, my own small kitchen has a 24" wide island that is very functional. Considering most counters are 24" deep, I think that 36" minimum rule only really applies if you want to have seating. Which she doesn't. I'm more concerned about the aisle widths (34" and 32") in a 2 person kitchen.

@Sina, that's an excellent argument for moving the dishwasher. We'll see what she says.

Just like this

I like the first layout, but without the island.

Make the pantry deeper to the full depth of the wall, include the broom niche on the end were you did in the second pic. Split the pantry space horizontally at desk height and put in a slide out table slab or even better, two that can be slid in or out of use as needed. Depending on the counter height and dishwasher height, she might be able to work in another slide out table there too.

It's like how some kitchens have the built in slide out breadboards, but table sized versions of it. People with tiny homes use this trick.

prep sink option

11' wide is not wide enough for an island. 11' wide is 132".

132" - perimeter counters with overhang at 25.5" = 106.5"

Yes 36" is minimum aisle width IF you're just walking around that space. I have 36" between my bookcase and the end of my island. There is no work going on where I have only 36". My working aisle where I cook is 48" and where my fridge is, is 42".

Minimum for a one butt kitchen is 42", but you say there are two cooks so with 2 cooks aisle width should be 48". So 106.5" - 48" = 58"

You want a pantry on the opposite wall. A pantry with items stacked single depth would ideally be 15" deep so 58" - 15" = 43.5". Assuming the opposite side of the island isn't used, for walking you need 36" so now your 43.5" - 36" = 7.5"

Even if you gave up the pantry and made the working side of the island 42" you still wouldn't have much of an island.

106.5" - 42" = 64.5"

64.5" - 36" = 28.5" for an island. Hardly worth it. The storage for the pantry would be more important.

I have a kitchen that is 11' wide. Trust me - it is NOT big enough for an island! But it is too wide to be a good galley kitchen. So what I did was buy a island cart from Ikea <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80035920/>; It's about 17" deep by 40" long. It's perfect! It gives me a landing zone for unloading groceries, clearing the table during big holiday meals, plus two drawers (that open on both sides!) for oddities, and two shelves. I painted mine black with the exception of the butcher block top. I oiled it many, many times and it looks great. This thing was SO well-built! It took my DGS about 2 hrs to put it together, using nothing more than a rubber mallet.

I have no problem with you and your sister trying to problem solve in your kitchen before she consults a KD - I spent many months sitting on a kitchen counter doing the same. When one is doing a kitchen in an existing space and no walls are coming down, it is far more of a challenge as there are limitations. My "elephant in the room" was the refrigerator - I could easily have designed a "perfect" kitchen if only it didn't need a refrigerator! Well, it did need one!

I'm very happy with the results of my remodel, but I spent a LOT of time planning it - what cabinets needed to go where, what would go in them, how could multiple people be in the kitchen at the same time. My kitchen is NOT open concept (thank goodness!), so I have three different areas for someone to work. The stove has a 5' counter next to it. It's where the person preps for things cooked on the stove and puts the plates for dishing up from the stove. On the other side of the kitchen are my dish cabinets - all uppers. No, there are not next to the sink as that is not possible. It's not a problem. The lower drawers all contain pans and mixing bowls used when I bake. A small counter next to it (next to the refrigerator) holds the microwave and my KA mixer. The cabinet above that has all my baking supplies - extracts etc. Below, are two drawers for more baking supplies and a drawer for the dog's kibble. When there are multiple cooks in the kitchen, this big countertop is where salads or dessert can easily be assembled.

The 3rd wall has my kitchen sink and my DW. Your DW MUST be next to your kitchen sink! It is a small L-shaped area and there is a very shallow custom cabinet on the abutting wall that holds all the everyday glasses, and narrow drawers for silverware and dishtowels etc. The door to the backyard is also on this wall.

So three people can work without ever having to invade one another's space and a 4th can be clearing the table in the DR or saving plated food from the kitchen. I cannot tell you how well this works in such a small kitchen!

I would strongly suggest that your sister give up the desk for grading papers in her kitchen. There are multiple places in the house where one can do this; there is only one place in the house where food can be prepared and ingredients and dishes/pots/pans can be stored and that's the kitchen. It's very valuable real estate.

I would also suggest that she not make that opposite wall all pantry. Make it a baking area as well, and then put another pantry where the desk is now.

Sister wants dish drawers so she can reach her dishes. That's another reason that DW wasn't beside the sink- so that the dishes could be unloaded conveniently into their drawers. Trying to see if I can maintain that convenience and keep dish storage out of the work triangle, all while having the DW beside the sink:

Beth Kitchen ideas · More Info

Maybe this way:

Beth Kitchen ideas · More Info

Also, the intended desk area is meant to be something like this:

Moore Log Home Remodel · More Info

Put the sink where the stove is and the stove where the sink is. Put the fridge where the breakfast station is now so it's near the dining room. Put the dishwasher between the sink and fridge.

"...she and hubby dont "dance" well together in the kitchen and he's in charge of dishes."

I don't know him so I can't say for sure but I strongly suspect that he will *hate* having the DW so far from the main/clean-up sink. And as posted above, that DW placement will be a major hitch when they go to sell the home. I know I'd look at it and immediately calculate what I'd have to spend to correct that placement and deduct that much from my offer.

Another problem IMO is the placement of her teacher work space smack in the middle of the work area. Bad idea. Ditto for the suggested placement of dish and pot drawers. If they don't dance well together, the kitchen plan needs to have very clearly defined work zones and it needs to have at least the minimum recommended aisle widths.

How about this?

North Andover, Massachusetts kitchen, Haymeadow · More Info

100 Square Foot Kitchen Remodel · More Info

I decreased the wall depth next to the fridge so that the door can open wide enough to pull out and access fridge drawers and to pull the drawers out completely to clean them. It may be possible to open the door wide enough without reducing the wall's depth but there's no way to know that without knowing that wall's width and the fridge's specs.

I increased the with of the entry to the DR so that I could make the island longer without creating a pinch point between island and the top corner of the side wall.

I swapped the locations of dish and pot drawers and moved the prep sink to the island. The DW is more conveniently located near both the prep and clean-up sinks, as is the recycle Susan.

The above plan would allow them to go with a cook top/wall oven set-up with the oven column next to the DR entry. Or they could go with a pull-out pantry cab in the same location.

I drew the above before learning that the DR is to the right and the LR above. It's a longer hike to clear the table and to get items from the fridge for the table but that might be a trade-off they're willing to make.

Another option, if they can afford to open up the kitchen to the living room would give them wider aisles and a larger island.

They should imagine themselves inside a space and mentally prepare a meal, clear the table, do the dishes, etc, compare notes and see if/how often they'd get in each other's way.

Here are pics of my trash under my single bowl, offset drain sink and in a cabinet in my island. I needed 4 bins: trash, glass recycling, mixed recycling and returnables.

View under the sink:

I can access both cabinets whether I'm at the sink, at the island or working in one of my prep areas between sink and cook top.

HTH!

Any chance the sink can go in front of the smaller window (labeled dish drawers in your last iteration) with the dishwasher next to it on the dining room side? Then put dishes and pots and pans on the other side of the sink. Range where the sink is. Ideally you could then put the fridge on the pantry wall (where the desk is listed). It could be flanked with narrow pantries on either side to address door swing. Then desk on the same wall near the living room door opening. Or you could leave the fridge where it is and make the long walk from the fridge to the sink.

I was typing while others were posting. My suggestion and cpartist's are pretty similar.

previous owners at our house put the sink, a row of drawers - then the dishwasher, so there is only about 18-24 inches between them and it still drives me bonkers. Every time i rinse a dish & put it in the dishwasher, i dribble water on the floor. When you're unloading the dishwasher - the dishes are dry so walking a few steps to put them away isn't a bid deal - IMO.

I would want the sink under a window. Could she add a peninsula where the moveable desk is going? It could or could not have seating on the opposite side.

I'd much prefer walking a few feet with a stack of CLEAN dishes to put them away, then walking with dripping plates from the sink to the DW. That is just crazy! I'd never buy a home with such an arrangement.

If the kitchen is designed correctly, there should be no need for "dancing" - each person has a work zone. Trust me, this really does work.

Here's an update to our tentative plans, including the dining room for reference.

Can you see other issues with the revised vision?