Moving up to something that fits your needs better will be the cheaper option. Your list is too long and involves too many major items. You are way underestimating how much that laundry list will cost. Remodeling costs more than new construction by far. Additions do too. TV renotainment is total fiction staged for dramatic purposes.

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2018/

I completely agree that it will be expensive. Our area is highly sought after. We got a good deal on this house because the previous owners were in a rush to move and it was 7 years ago. Today this house would sell for much more. Similar old houses in the area would require just as much work and cost $250,000-$300,000. Houses that don't need the work cost $400,000+. Prices are being inflated because inventory is low and there is no open land within the borough limits to build a house. It may cost $200,000 but in the end we have exactly what we want and where we want it, without being the biggest and most extravagant in the neighborhood. The money is not the issue here. What I am looking for is the fine folks here to give suggestions on layout and which option would turn out better vs the price. If I could get a good functional layout without the addition that would be great.

That list is gonna cost way more than 200K. Which is why moving to an existing home with the features you want will be cheaper.

I understand renovating and adding onto a house even when it is not fiscally sensible. I have been doing that with my own house and as long as you know it is an emotional investment not financial one there is no reason not to explore it as an option. It may very well cost more than 200 k with or with out an addition though to get everything you wish for. Many kitchens in my area cost over 100 k to remodel with structure and fixture changes. And baths start at 30k.

I started renovations with a list of likes vs dislikes. Then took my dislikes and tried to determine want vs needs. Then I made a budget and determined what we could do our selves. Then we met with the pros for a reality check and re assessed our goals and delayed some things for later dates by priority. You should talk to contractors, realtors and architects now to target in on what options work best in your house with your lifestyle and your budget.

Good luck.

Sophie - I already had an informal chat with a contractor friend. He estimated an addition like that to be 100k-150k, most likely around 120k after all is said and done and those unplanned for things are paid for. I think putting 200k in my head gives me enough cushion. Also, I keep a pretty close eye on homes for sale in our area, and nothing under 400k has everything that we want, so they would all require some work anyway.

Roarah - I appreciate the personal experience. Our plan seems very similar to yours. We will definately be meeting with pros in the future and can prioritize certain items over others. My main goal with this post is to get some great advice, suggestions and personal experience that I can take to the pros beforehand, instead of paying them then coming here and then paying some more for changes (even though that may end up happening anyway haha).

I would definitely not have the bathroom, and laundry together. They should be 2 separate rooms.

Cat_ky

I agree. I thought of it while typing my original post. I think I was stuck on the one room idea because that is how it is currently set up. We have bi-fold doors that we can close to hide the washer and dryer when people are over. Having a completely separate room makes it even easier to hide.

Couple of things: You have a modest home, which is fine. But I don't think the quality of the home or the lot is worth investing another $150,000 - especially architecturally - it's has no appeal. Also, there is no garage. I wouldn't buy a $350,000 home without a garage.

Find yourself a better home.

Where I live location and walkability to public transit trump garages in value. And although an extra nice feature not necessary for resale .

All you have to do is search for: My home is worth a lot more, and I want to remodel my home and I don't care if I lose money, and we are going to live here forever.

Really painful logic.

Hey Sophia: I'm an only child - but you could be my sister :)

Invest 10K in an architect then. That is where your project needs to start. Not with felt tip scribbling. Then get your 290K bids back from the builders once real plans have happened and it’s not their come on lowball wags.

Not an only child. Just from Generation Quitcher Whining Bout WANTING Stuff and Pick Up a Screwdriver Dammit. Or Get A Better Job And Pay For It Like We Had To. There’s a lot of us.

We have a neighborhood near where I live that has a bunch of 1200 sq. foot one story bungalows on very small lots. But it is highly desirable area since it is in walking distance of a viable and vibrant suburban downtown. If a home goes on the market 99% of the time it sells to a builder who then tears it down and builds a 3000 sq. foot, three story home. At first this looked so out of place but now half the area has new homes. You have $250K homes next door to $600K ones.

There is one home in which they are adding on to the existing bungalow rather than tearing down. It is fascinating to watch the vision. You could say they are over-investing or you could say they are being green by not ripping the whole thing out.

Sophie, I have to chuckle about picking up the screwdriver and getting down to work. A neighbor just asked me the other day why I don't hire out more than I do. She just can't understand why I would want to do things myself. Oh, that just makes me more determined. Um, I am just cheap and stubborn.

I'm going to ignore all the financial talk and go for the fun stuff--the layout ;).

I would keep the hallway, and put the half bath on the front corner, with the laundry closer to the kitchen. Laundry would be behind folding doors with choice of closets for guest coats--long closet could have folding doors which reveal a counter for sorting and storing laundry, with coats in the smaller closet.

That would allow you to keep the LR in the front, with the DR close to the kitchen. I turned the island, and tried to hide the fridge from the front door, but make it convenient to the DR and LR. The pantry is farther from the fridge than I'd like, but gives you plenty of storage. You could put a MW on a shelf beside the fridge, for convenience, but then it would be in line with the front door, so I put a MW on the island, across from the fridge.

This plan has functional flow from fridge--->sink--->prep--->range, but it also puts the DW and dish storage between the fridge and sink. I like to have the DW and dish storage out of the main prep and cooking zones, and close to the DR, but sometimes, especially in a remodel in a smaller kitchen, that can't be avoided. The alternative would be to put the fridge on the short wall, as you suggested, but that puts it across the room from the sink (second plan), and across the traffic from the door.

How do you feel about placing the sink off-center (to the right) to give you a bit more prep space between it and the range, which would also give you a bigger cabinet between the sink and corner susan?

I hope the OP tells us how it all works out.

OP, I also live in a highly desirable, walkable neighborhood with a combination of small bungalows and larger homes. My neighbors outgrew their home and decided to do an addition (enlarge entryway and living room, add a bedroom). They hired an architect, went through a long design process, talked informally with a couple of contractors and came up with a $200k budget. Then they went out to bid. The bids came in so far over their budget they abandoned the whole idea, sold the house and moved into a bigger home. I'm not saying it's impossible, but in a hot market where contractors can pick and choose and name their price, you might be shocked at what it will actually cost once you have plans in hand. Good luck.

Hello all - It has been a busy weekend!

mle - I have been in contact with our borough codes officer. I have made sure all of my ideas fit within the current codes. I am waiting on an email back regarding the codes on impervious sq. footage requirements at the moment.

Aurora - Our neighborhood has a ton of variance similar to yours. A lot of the small, older homes are currently owned by elderly couples who have not updated much in the homes. The more up to date homes have been purchased and expanded/updated. It is pretty normal here.

Sophie - I would love to pick up the screwdriver on this. I have made many smaller changes in our house, including removing a non-load-bearing wall and replacing some doors. However, with something on this scale, it will probably be best to let the pros handle it to stay on schedule. I can do some of the work but I also have a full time job that may prohibit it being done timely. I would hate to pay a pro to sit around and wait for me to finish.

einportlandor - I have already accepted the fact that we may begin this process and it turns out to cost way more than we would like and we have to walk away. I am optimistic that that will not be the case, but I will not be blindsided it if happens.

geoffrey_b - I will definately update with how it all works out. We are not in a rush at this point so it may be a slow process!

mama goose - Into the good stuff. Thank you!

Just for clarification - Are your ideas based off an addition to the back or keeping the current size?

I don't dislike the idea of keeping the hallway but what is your opinion on the front door being off center when the porch is added? I am a fan of symmetry and am not sure if that will look goofy.

I would probably close off the laundry room into a room with a door rather than folding doors. That would make it easier to hide and clothes/clutter that are in there. I would also consider switching the laundry room with the bathroom for the sake of keeping the sink and toilet plumbing where it currently is. I'm not sure moving it would serve a huge purpose for the addition cost of moving the plumbing for those.

I like your setup with the fridge along the laundry wall. It is a bit of a walk to the fridge but not too bad. I also like the idea of the microwave over there. It keeps it out of the way. Also, that door only really gets used by me when I go out to the trash or the grill. Most people use the back door during parties and such. One thing that I want is the sink in front of the window. However, if we do the addition, the window could be moved to the right a bit for more counter space by the range.

Thank you for the suggestions. Please keep them coming!

It may be the case, as Sophie suggested, that morphing your existing home into the home you envision will push the total investment higher than the cost of already remodeled homes or even new homes in your neighborhood.

Kudos to you for investigating the regulatory requirements (set-backs, impervious cover, etc.) before doing anything else.

I think you will be well served to sit down with a design/build remodeler, architect or designer experienced in design of remodels. Because the design of remodels can be highly constrained, the competencies required for a designer are different from those required for new construction. Develop a couple of concept plans and test them to see if they meet your lifestyle needs. Then sit down with someone who can give you a more informed estimate of the cost than an off-the-cuff estimate. You might need to pay someone to produce the estimate, but it will be better to get credible numbers early in the design process than to invest in a set of fully detailed plans only to learn you've blown way past the budget.

Best wishes for a successful project.

I was using existing footprint, but moving the back door. Maybe you could use another window to make the off-center front door look more symmetric.

My thought was that the PR in the front would be more convenient for guests, and laundry would be more convenient for anyone working in the kitchen, but if the laundry is in the front it would also be more convenient to the stairs, from whence dirty laundry arrives and clean laundry departs.

If the right side of the kitchen sink is lined up with the right side of the window, the faucet could be m/l centered on the window, to disguise the asymmetry--but you like symmetry, so if you hated looking at the sink, that might not work (or could be a good excuse to make someone else do the dishes and cooking ;). You'd need to source a sink with a left-side drain.

Is there a closet or pantry beneath the stairs, or are there stairs to a basement?

Charles - I have already done a get to know meeting with a local architect and will be meeting with a few others in the future. I am looking for some help here to make my vision the best it can be before I get the architect to draw/provide their ($ by the hour) input.

mama goose - I like these changes. Most people walk through the kitchen currently to get to the bathroom anyway. The stairs go up from the front of house toward the back. The basement door is right near the kitchen under the stairs.

If you have to bring homeowner plans to a design professional, then you didn’t hire a design professional. You hired a drafter, who only transcribes self created plans. That is the worst possible outcome of your request here.

The reason you hire an architect instead of a drafter is better creative ideas, and pushback on less than optimal homeowner ideas. And the problem with carrying homeowner created “plans” to an architect is the disproportionate IKEA effect attachment that the homeowner develops to those poor plans. And more time has to be spent detaching the homeowner’s cognitive bias towards those plans than just drawing up better plans right off the bat.

The bubble diagram exercise of thinking about spatial relationships and adjacencies is useful to your thought process. But, don’t expect the resultant drawings to be at all useful to an architect, beyond taking them as a basic adjacencies hierarchy for creative thought to flow from.

Sophie - No offense but that is total B.S. Your advice is essentially to find an architect, tell him to draw me an addition and wait to see what happens??? The reason I am here is to get an idea of what I want - that I can take to an architect and say here are my ideas, use your expertise to make it the best it can be.

Frankly, I find your attitude on this site to be extremely condescending. If it doesn't say PRO under my name that means I am clueless? I am by no means saying that I know it all because I don't. But I am on this site for constructive advice, specifically on design in this case. Some people (special shout out to mama goose) have been extremely helpful in that regard!

Hi, JK,

Sophie's advice may be bluntly put, but she's raised an important point. Designing with an architect is a collaboration best begun at the get-go. If you do the design work yourself and look to them to "just draw it up," you risk missing out on the professional insights they contribute in the process of translating your lifestyle needs into a workable plan (and hopefully, one that's in budget, too.)

I wish I had $100 for every prospective client who walked into our office with their custom home drawn on graph paper. It usually doesn't go well. The client comes to the architect already in love with their design--no matter how eccentric it may be-- and spends what might have been useful design time defending it at every turn.

If you're planning to engage an architect (or really competent residential designer), I believe the best investment of your time and energy will be capturing how you live, things you like and dislike about your current home, room dimensions/relationships, sizes of key furniture pieces you'll be keeping and determining the amount you are willing to invest so you can share them as inputs to the design process. Spend time talking with remodelers, too; ideally, you'll want to have yours on board so they can participate in design.

Best wishes for a successful project.

Charles,

You bring a much more diplomatic approach than Sophie. As such, your advice is more useful. I will keep in mind to not let my ideas become ingrained in my mind as the best.

However, Sophie needs to be a bit more aware and do less jumping to conclusions just so she can lecture us DIYers as a professional. I have not hired anyone yet. I am doing my due diligence and meeting with a few to determine who will work best with us to come up with a plan. I like to be prepared and learn as much about a project as I can before meeting with professionals. Case in point: 3 years ago we added air conditioning to our house. The first pro that I met with told me it could not be done. Having done my homework, I proposed a solution that I thought might work. He got that "a ha" look on his face and decided to take another look around. 15 minutes later he agreed that that would be a good solution. I ended up not hiring that guy because I like a little creativity, but the guy I did hire ended up using that plan. Without a bit of research on my part, I may still have pro's telling me it isn't possible.

JK, I'll approach this as a homeowner who has done something similar to our house. First off, I vehemently disagree with the people whose answer is always "better off selling this and buying something which better fits your needs". It assumes that houses exist on some type of continuum where for every price point there exists a house in your location. Moreover, that even if such a house existed, in your desired location for your budget, that it is even for sale. Also, it ignore the very substantial transaction costs of selling/buying. We chose to do a major addition and re-model because there was no viable option - for the money we spent (including value of the house), there was nothing available or likely to be available that itself wouldn't need major work in the near future (and therefore out of budget).

I do think it is important to keep the finished product in line w/what you think you could sell it for.

Finally, for process: We had ideas for what we wanted to do, of course, but I agree with Charles that it is counter productive to get too wedded to the layout you have in mind. Speak with a few architects who do similar work. Listen to their ideas. Choose the one you like best and react to his/her ideas. We ended up with something that we didn't initially imagine, and every day I come home I still get a big smile on my face. (and oh yeah, we could sell it today for significantly more than we paid, but that's irrelevant as we intend to remain here, but it counters the idea that reno's are always a negative sum game).

To summarize: 1) I encourage you to persevere with your addition 2) go into your architect discussions with as open a mind as possible. and 3) Good luck!