z5 is about half the US and wildly divergent.. lets start with your location ...

the cottonwood is sold as fast growing.. i would not plant any tree that claims such... within 50 feet of my house ... said trees are usually soft wooded.. prone to disease and weather damage ...

see link below ,, note the first section on timing .... as a novice ... and depending on location ... you might be best off planning on a fall planting ... dealing with clay soil is also addressed ...

also ... trees never stop growing ... as such.. i think part of your problem.. is looking for some type of definitive answer.. when there really isnt one ...

but what i dont understand from your premise... is that the way you word it.. you seem to want it to never cross a property line.. and if so .... you are probably limiting yourself in choices ...

lastly ... what if any plans do you have under your trees ... some are not conducive to smaller plants underneath ... e.g. hosta are very hard to grow under maples ... because maples have the tendency to suck the life out of anything under them ... though admittedly ... this is a problem for a few decades down the line.. otherwise known as tree time ...

ken

https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub

It would be the rare case where a tree fit on the confines of one's lot alone. Usually, their branches span into two or more yards ... especially with today's smaller yards. That's why trees usually have their bottom limbs and branches removed and have a clear trunk -- so as not to take up all the yard ground space. Usually, the closer to a house the tree is, the smaller you might want it to be, but this is relative as houses are different sizes and trees come in all shapes and sizes. Large trees -- like a burr oak -- you'd want farther from the house, say along the street or out in the back yard. If you want to do yourself a favor, plan out the landscaping for your entire lot, and then you'll be more likely to place the tree in a location where it will not be in the way of something else.

Normally, woody plant sizes stated are rarely as large as the plant will actually get because they don't quit growing.

You might get more suggestions from the Tree forum.

A. Trick question

B. Question with no answer

C. All of the above.

Where do you come from? if you come from the east or the south where large trees grow like weeds, you like large trees. If you come from an arid region where largish shrubs are counted as trees, anything approaching large stature could give you a conniption fit.

I know people who think a tree should be shorter than the house it's next to. I also know people who prune everything around their house to correspond to architectural features of the house, ie, shade trees are pruned to not be higher than the ridgeline, etc.

I know people who love large trees that wave in the breeze far above their roof. And others who quake in fear at the thought.

You're asking a question about the realm of human opinion. If there's a broader range of possible answers, or a more dangerous bottle to open, I'm unaware of it.

"We know very little about landscaping. We moved into a new construction neighborhood with zero trees."

Your initial two sentences tell the story. Please consult with a landscape designer so you can have a master plan (hardscape & landscape) to implement over time as your budget allows. This is the best way to get the right trees in the right spot without inadvertently planting a messy tree or one too close or any number of potential mistakes. Landscaping is a science and an art. Can you research and learn? Yes. But IMO hiring an expert is the best way to go as it saves lots of money and time by avoiding expensive errors.

You ask the right questions. Tree spread figures are deceptive. The spread matters more for pyramidal trees that keep their lower branches then a tree like a white oak that (when mature) branches above your head. It doesn't much matter if a tall tree's branches spread beyond your property over a road or river if they are high enough. (And if you don't have overhead powerlines)

Also, they usually are given as of a
particular date, usually 10 years...spread will be less before that and
more after that. It's a mistake to think of tree plantings as static things of a certain size.

I usually like to plant a mix of slow growing shade loving trees and
shorter lived faster growing trees. The long lived shade lovers will
live in the shadow of the other trees until the other tree dies of old
age.

If you go to a forest, you always find trees crowded MUCH closer then most sites recommend...you space trees more if you want that perfect symmetrical look then if you want a "faux woodland". If you are lucky enough to have no overhead power lines it is actually desirable to have trees spread their branches OVER the road to cool the asphalt.

Neither of your tree ideas seem like terrible ideas. Cottonwood can be messy and drop branches.

Please consider your neighbors, who may not want their yards or homes shaded by a large tree or who may not want tree branches from your yard hanging into their yard. Trees are great, except when your neighbor blocks sun you'd like to use to grow sun loving plants or smaller trees, a veggie garden, or the sun you need for your solar panels or the sun you enjoy coming through your windows (turning the inside of your house dark and dreary). Anyway, please consider your neighbors before planting trees that will get big enough to block their sunlight, on their property, or that will hang into their yard.

Thanks for the advice everyone -- very helpful! We will consider hiring someone to help us with landscape design to help make this decision, though as of right now we don't have any real intentions of doing much more landscape-wise on that side of the house. We will also consult our neighbors to see if they have any long term plans for their yards and if they are ok with large trees.

The real problem for both of us is that we grew up in neighborhoods with large, mature trees (my wife grew up in a forest), so to us not having large trees (cottonwoods, oaks, etc.) seems crazy. But I understand opinions differ and we should run any plans by our neighbors.

First I coment you for asking this question. Most people would just plant and prune later. If all you are doing is selecting trees, a landscape designer may be overkill. I am a landscape designer and I would love to change you to pick two trees. But I bet you could learn what oyu need on your own. As consumers we do more research picking a car than a tree and the tree will last much longer.

Using the information you provided in your post you can go into a good garden center and ask for help. Not a big box store , a real nursery. You can also use the internet and do a little research. Select Trees

A few things to know before planting a tree. Understand the size listed is an estimate after a certain number of years. Many tree continue to grow. Some fast some slow. Some like poor soil, some need well drained soil. you need to match the plant to you site . Do a little research and work with your nursery / garden center. - You said in your post "We really like the idea of something like a Bur Oak or Siouxland Cottonwood, but when we read something like 45' spread, it makes it sound like it wouldn't fit our lot" I think you are on you way to learning what you need to pick a tree. .

If you want ideas on the layout of your entire landscape - call a landscape designer.

veggiegardnr: I'll do that if you think of the neighbors before you take down trees...so often new residents feel the need to mark their territory by hysterically chopping stuff down, leaving the neighbors without privacy and MUCH hotter in the summer.

boernegal: Tree size at maturity is a meaningless number. Few trees ever stop growing...in theory most trees would eventually outgrow their spot. If a tree has to be taken down in 60 years, is that a reason not to plant it? No one decides to skip a kitchen remodel because the kitchen will look dated in 15 years. Think of trees as a process, not a static thing. Plant slower growing, long lived, shade tolerant trees near the faster growing ones, so that as one set dies or has to be taken down their understudies waiting in the wings.

If you want smaller trees think of America Hornbeam (Carpinus caroliniana) American Smoketree (Cotinus obovatus) Fringe Tree (hionanthus virginicus) Serviceberry (Amelanchier arborea). Tupelo isn't small but is a great tree in clay. Not that the trees you suggested were bad ones.

We are actually in Nebraska and I haven't seen any of those trees available at local nurseries. I did go in to one of our larger nurseries assuming they had the staff to give advice, but they weren't really able to make much in the way of recommendations. I luckily found a local tree farm that actually sent some one out to our house to make recommendations based on the lot. He thought we could fit probably 3-4 larger trees if we really wanted to. Bur Oak would work (or most any oak), he also brought up the possibility of birch, locust, or even London Plane. He did recommend pairing up a couple faster growing trees with anything like the oak. At this point I'm just researching all those recommendations on the forums here.

Sorry but you and your neighbor will be dead or on your way out before a burr oak produces that much shade on an opposing property growing in compacted clay in good ol NE.

It will be the next generation of owners that will possibly be impacted if its still living. At that point the new buyer will go for it based on she shade otherwise they'll be looking for a more open lot

I'm fine with planting a tree for the next generation... Someone has to! But that leads idea of pairing it with a faster growing shade tree (or two).

Edlincoln, you don't need huge trees to provide privacy or shade.

Huge trees can actually have their canopy up so high that they provide very little privacy and smaller trees can provide a great deal of privacy.

I don't understand why you, or anyone else, would object if someone cut down a tree on their own property that was shading your yard, as you could simply plant your own tree, put up a trellis, etc. to get the shade and privacy that you prefer back. Shade is easily made. On the other hand, people cannot do anything to make sunlight when that is taken from them by trees in a neighboring yard.

FYI, I like trees. I have 18 of them, on my suburban lot. They are sized appropriately for my yard (one is actually pretty large, but does not hang into, or shade, my neighbor's yard). They are also placed appropriately, so as not to impinge upon my neighbors' yards, or block their sunlight.

I enjoy shade, in the right places. I feel like the decision as to where and how much shade I have on my own property should be a decision that I should be able to make for myself and not have it forced upon me by a neighbor. For example, I have a trellis that provides me with a good amount of shade over my back patio, and I enjoy that shade in that location. Otherwise, I'd remove the trellis. I certainly wouldn't want my entire back yard FORCED into shade by an inconsiderate neighbor.

Some of my favorite plants are shade plants, but, yes, I do think I should be able to grow my roses, fruit trees and vegetable garden without a neighbor planting a huge tree that would block sunlight and make these things, which I greatly enjoy, impossible for me to grow on my own property.

I am planning to get solar panels and I think I should have the ability to do that and to have my panels remain functional over the years, without them being blocked from gathering sunlight by a neighbor who would be so inconsiderate as to plant a giant tree that would shade my roof.

It's really not that hard to be considerate of neighbors and keep trees sized and placed appropriately. Not every tree is appropriate for every location or every neighborhood.

Veggiegardener, being considerate of the neighbors sounds exactly why Drew first posted. But I think you are going overboard with expectations that your neighbors ensure that you have sun when it is not really their responsibility. You get what you pay for ... what your lot lines allow from overhead, and that's why you have the prerogative to cut any encroaching vegetation they plant back to the line. I realize this may impose work on a neighbor and people should be some kind of reasonable in order to get along. But if the rules were changed such that one got to control what is outside of one's property, it would be chaos and warring ... much worse across the board. Fences would no longer be sufficient to make good neighbors. It would require armed troops and there would be no end of law suits.

My comments were in response to edlincoln. I think it's kind of simple to be a good neighbor and I do agree this is why the op asked the original question...trying to be a good neighbor.

I do not agree with the people who tell the op to just plant whatever, that it doesn't matter how big a tree gets, if it hangs over into neighboring yards, or shades them, and I do not agree that the eventual size of whatever is planted is irrelevant just because the tree might grow slowly. I don't agree that it's okay to just make it someone else's problem in the future. I also don't agree that it's okay to plant trees that will affect what your neighbors do with their property.

When you shop for a house, if the lot is already shaded by neighboring trees and you don't like that, you shouldn't buy the house. End of story. I don't think you should be able to force your neighbor to cut down a large tree that pre-dates the purchase.

But, when you buy a house, you buy it with future plans for that house/yard. Your neighbors are not being good neighbors if they then plant huge trees that prevent you from enjoying your property in the manner that you originally bought it for.

One of my neighbors has this problem. She bought her house first, with a sunny backyard and she put in a pool, a vegetable garden, and planted roses and a small fruit tree (where it would not drop into her pool). Neighbors then planted a tree that grew fairly rapidly. It now hangs into her yard, drops tons of stuff into her pool all the time, and shades most of her back yard. She can no longer have her vegetable garden, her fruit tree is barely hanging on due to the shade and her house is pretty dark now inside. She never wanted a dark home or a shaded backyard. Trimming that tree back to the property line would do nothing to prevent the problems she's having with it, due to lot orientation, pool location, tree location, etc. Does this seem okay to you that her inconsiderate neighbor has done this to her and she no longer gets to do the things she enjoys with her own property? No, she cannot afford to just move (and why should she have to?).

If I put up solar panels, which cost a lot of money, do you think it's okay if my neighbor then plants a tree that grows up and shades my panels? Do you think it would be okay if I had a bunch of sun loving plants in my back yard that I grew and carefully tended over several years and a neighbor then decided to plant a row of huge shade trees that then transformed my yard into a place where only shade loving plants would grow?

"Does this seem okay to you that her inconsiderate neighbor has done this to her and she no longer gets to do the things she enjoys with her own property?" Yes. Before making the decision to install a pool, she has to take into account how neighbors potentially use their yard and the what the law says. The coin flips the other way, too. If someone takes out a tree they are sick of, a neighbor will then be unhappy and complain that their thoughtless neighbor removed a perfectly good tree that was providing them with shade! It's their right.

"If I put up solar panels, which cost a lot of money, do you think it's okay if my neighbor then plants a tree that grows up and shades my panels?" Yes. Same story. You have to take into account what neighbors might typically do on their property before you do something and then start making demands on their rights because of your bad judgement. Knowing that people commonly plant trees in their yards, be prepared for what those trees do. Saying that trimming trees back to the property line doesn't/won't solve the problem demonstrates a person's desire to take advantage of others and make demands on their rights.

"if I had a bunch of sun loving plants in my back yard that I grew and carefully tended over several years and a neighbor then decided to plant a row of huge shade trees that then transformed my yard into a place where only shade loving plants would grow?" You are someone who expects others to comply with your demands if you were there first. This is exactly why property lines and property rights are so important. You own and control everything within your property lines, but not outside of them! No matter how much you wish to control what those around you are doing. Too, the condition of changing light (from sun to shade) over a period of time is what nearly everyone must face on their own property. Plant a tree and at some later date grass no longer grows in that area. One must adapt throughout life.

More and more communities are enacting ordinances to protect people from things like their neighbor planting trees that grow up and block their solar panels. I think this is a good thing and I suspect that this trend will continue. I'm glad that I live somewhere where I currently have reasonable neighbors. I sure wouldn't want to live next to some of the people who have responded in this thread. Nightmare neighbors is the term that comes to mind.

More and more communities are enacting all manner of controls in every category that that are first in direct violation of American founding principles, imposing a loss of freedom and higher costs on everyone. We are literally surrounded everywhere by people who prefer to have decision making performed by rulers than having individuals determine their own best course of action within the confines of their rights .... people who want to control others. (The property line determines where your fist ends and your neighbor's nose begins.) To be sure, there would be many who wouldn't enjoy living next to someone who thought their control extended beyond their property lines.

What are you going with Drew? Regarding a shade tree your neighbor could be gone tomorrow and the next person will plant a large shade tree in their yard. You can't be concerned with everything.

Do chose the right tree for the right location and shading of neighbors property is not included in this consideration. I would however be considerate of the type of tree liter. You don't want female gingko fruit or large acorns landing on your porch or your neighbor's yard. They do make cultivars that are breed to minimize certain liter (I hate using that word) like male cultivars of Kentucky Coffee Tree and Ginkgo.

we all have to use reasonable judgment. If someone is putting a silver maple right on the lot line of a postage stamp size lot I could see the argument. Planting a sugar maple 20 feet in on the lot line for a lot that is 70 feet wide no problem

Well, first of all, sorry for starting such a debate! But these were exactly the arguments I was going over in my head trying to decide what to do!

At this point I think we are planning on just two largeish trees, figuring on a 70 ft wide lot, we can probably be 20 ft in from either lot line and still 30 ft between the two trees.

What type of trees we are still trying to decide. We went to our local botanical gardens that had an arboretum to see some of the trees in person, outside of a forest setting (where trees look totally different). We are actually now considering a Northern Red Oak instead of a Bur Oak (a bit nicer shape and structure in our eyes, but may be a bit pickier on soil). The other tree we are completely undecided. We've decided against a Cottonwood and while we like the London Plane, we fear it will be too big and be a mess to clean up (large leaves). So we are kind of back to the drawing board on the second tree.

Drew, no need for apologies. It IS a forum and the discussion can take all directions that come under the umbrella of the subject. I don't think anyone is hurt or crying. I totally agree with Whaas that it boils down to being reasonable. No need for someone to not enjoy their property, but no need to squirt bleach in someone's eye either.

The London Plane has some positive features, but it always leaves me a little disappointed in the appearance department. Here in Fl., they lose half their leaves by mid summer. I do love the male Gingkgos with its many great features.

I feel for veggiegardnr. It can be frustrating to have neighbors whose building and landscaping choices detrimentally affect your use of your property. Especially in dense localities.

But if no one plants large trees the streets with smaller lots would just bake from the cooked asphalt and concrete.

There is a large camphor tree on my street. Probably 70' spread shading the sidewalk and pavement. It sheds leaves and twigs daily which the wind takes to neighboring yards. And I can imagine someone with a pristine lawn not liking it. But you can feel the temperature difference when you walk under it on 90 degree days.