What are the rooms below and to the right of the breakfast space?

Can you add the table+chairs you’re going to use onto the plan to get an idea of how traffic is going to flow thru the breakfast area and how much space is available for island seating

Also, what else is going in the laundry room? As is, I would make some mods to the layout to better use the space (but maybe there’s other, unlisted uses?)

I’ll be back later with some input re-layout (lunch break over lol)

What are you going to wash in that sink? Will you have two faucets? You don't have excess usable counter, imo, to trade for that size single sink.

@damiarain, thanks for taking the time to comment. Below are answers to your questions.

What are the rooms below and to the right of the breakfast space?

To the right of the 10' opening is the Great Room. The door going to the bottom of the page is leading to the dining room.

Can you add the table+chairs you’re going to use onto the plan to get an idea of how traffic is going to flow thru the breakfast area and how much space is available for island seating.

I don't have table/chairs for the breakfast nook yet. My next set of questions for the community was going to include: "what size table should I get?" LOL! We are a family of 5, so I'm hoping I can fit a table for 8 there....maybe that is wishful thinking??

Also, what else is going in the laundry room? I agree the laundry room layout needs work and I'm open to any suggestions. :) In addition to the washer & dryer we will have a dog/foot shower. (We are building in the country.) This will most likely be in lieu of the sink. When I need to soak clothes, I'll just put a plastic or metal tub in the shower floor. I also plan on putting a sewing machine and a table in that room for sewing, crafts, folding clothes, etc. The table is 33"x51" without the leaves or 33"x107" with them. (While I do occasionally use the 107", I don't have to design to for it.) I'll also add cabinets or closet where I can for extra storage.

What are you going to wash in that sink? My half sheets pans and crock pot are probably the the biggest things that didn't fit in the sink at my old house. I'm in temp housing at the moment and don't have "my stuff", but I think those are the largest items. I actually think the double bowl 39" will fit the half sheets. If so, I'll go with that size. I want a double bowl so the garbage disposal can go on the smaller side and I can defrost meats above it using the ledge & colander.

Will you have two faucets? Maybe. I think it will depend on the faucet.

You don't have excess usable counter, imo, to trade for that size single sink. Interesting. I thought the 8' island would give me plenty of usable counter. Do you mind walking me through why you disagree? I definitely don't want to move in to a new house and feel like there isn't enough usable counter space!

Hopefully there is room for a bicycle in the garage!

Drawers are definitely the best use of base cabinets. I'm 5'4", but I ran my upper cabinets to the 8' ceiling, and added extra shelves in each one. That allowed me to store more things without a lot of wasted space above the items on the shelves, and to put the lowest shelves at a height I can reach, with shorter things on the bottom shelf. I also have a folding step stool that fits under the sink, for those times when I can't wait for my 6' tall hubby or sons to grab something for me! The upper shelves hold things I don't need often, or that DH uses more that I do. My house isn't very big, and I don't have a pantry, so I need to take advantage of storage wherever I can.

As for your kitchen layout: it's pretty decent, though I would swap the DW to the other side of the sink, to get it out of the prep zone.

I don't think you need a table for 8 in the breakfast nook. If you have that many people for a meal, eat in the dining room.

You have a rather convoluted path from the garage to the kitchen - through the mudroom (which is great), then through the laundry, which is not so great. The stairs in the middle of that space aren't helping matters. Do they go up or down?

Have you considered separate cooking and clean-up zones? If you move the clean-up sink and DW to the short wall, and the range to the long wall, and add a prep sink in the island, you'd have separate zones. A helper could load and unload the DW, and gather dishes to set the table, without entering the prep and cooking zones. In the following plan dishes are stored in drawers in the island, across from the DW.

I put the MW in the island, but if you want it to be more convenient for your tall husband, the windows beside the range could be more narrow, and the MW placed on a shelf beside the fridge, but then it wouldn't be as convenient for you. :(

As for the size of the sink--I have a 33" single-bowl apron sink and the racks from my 30" oven lay flat for soaking. 33-36" should be fine, especially if you opt for the prep sink on the island, and with a prep sink on the island you can prep facing the great room.

Thanks for the input @ AnnKH. Below are some answers to your quesitons.

Hopefully there is room for a bicycle in the garage! There is, but when someone in my house sees "extra" space, they think they need to fill it. :)

I ran my upper cabinets to the 8' ceiling, and added extra shelves in each one. I would definitely do this too, if I didn't have a walk-in pantry. I'm trying to minimize them since cabinets are expensive and I have a walk-in pantry to organize too. My original plan was to go to the ceiling with cabinets or shelves in the pantry and have a ladder (think pinterest version of an old library ladder) to access them. I can't decide if I'll miss them in the kitchen though.

I would swap the DW to the other side of the sink, to get it out of the prep zone. I asked my husband about this last week. He noted our DW has always been on the left, which made me think putting it on the right was a no-no. :)

You have a rather convoluted path from the garage to the kitchen - through the mudroom (which is great), then through the laundry, which is not so great. The stairs in the middle of that space aren't helping matters. Do they go up or down? The stairs go up to my office. I telecommute, so it is a "work" office and is off limits to the family. The "bill paying/mail sorting/meal planning" office is in the pantry unless I can come up with a better space. I wanted to move the stairs adjacent to an exterior wall, but was told I can't due to the roof lines/head clearance at the top. I agree walking through the laundry room isn't ideal, but I can't see a way around that, can you? I'm open to suggestions.

@mamagoose, thank you for the input. I'll comment after dinner, once I've had a chance to really think about your suggestions.

I want a larger sink. I'm considering the Create Good Sinks 46" apron or under mount. I originally wanted an apron sink, but thought it might be too much if I do such a large si

You have the space. I'd get the biggest sink you can. Since you don't value the upper cabinets very highly, I'd double the window above the sink /let in more light.

As a fellow short person, I love apron sinks. They're closer to you! And because I hate cleaning around the faucet, I like the idea of a little space behind the sink. Win-win.

I've never had large drawers on the lower cabinets. Are there any cons?

One con: They are more expensive than standard cabinets; however, they're something you're going to have for many, many years, and they are much more functional. I'd call them a worthwhile splurge.

One observation: You want to be sure your drawers don't "open across something" -- this is really a problem in the corners. To say it better: Just be sure you can actually open all your drawers.

I'm also debating whether I need to seat 5 people here. In my old house, we ate at the island all the time

I don't see any point in having an island + a breakfast table essentially within reach of one another. I think a breakfast table is nicer and makes for better dinner conversation (because everyone can see each other).

The pantry area is supposed to be a pantry and office (mail/bill paying/meal planning). Any suggestions on how to separate the uses?

I don't particularly love the idea of squeezing a desk in between your pantry goods and a freezer ... and natural light is the enemy of food storage.

You have a very large laundry room ... I'd move your desk into that area. You can have windows on two walls, and it could be a glorious little space.

While we're on the subject of the laundry room, I'd bump the washer /dryer to the left exterior wall ... and bump the doorway to the right. This will allow you to have a window view at the end of this small hallway; I think it'd be a big positive.

I also want a microwave in the kitchen. I'm considering a drawer in the island, but I've read a lot of negative things about those.

I'm not into the micro-drawer idea. They cost hundreds, whereas a simple microwave can be had down at Target for $40 ... and if your micro-drawer breaks, you're committed to buying another ... and a micro-drawer takes away storage.

For what do you use your microwave? How often? Would you consider placing the microwave in the pantry? How about building in a shelf on the back side of the island to hold the microwave?

"what size table should I get?" LOL! We are a family of 5, so I'm hoping I can fit a table for 8 there....maybe that is wishful thinking??

All my married life, we've had a 3 1/2' round table ... it's ideal for 4-5 people. One of my husband's few demands about our new house is that we will never, never, never give up this table.

No, don't put an 8-person table in a breakfast nook. Put in a small table for cozy meals, and go with a large table in your dining room. No point to having two large dining spaces.

I like this choice. The microwave is off the countertop, and it's near the refrigerator for leftovers.

I was thinking something along the lines of MammaGoose's layout - but also moving the door for the dining room over towards the right (first plan posted below). Some thoughts about this.

- Includes a mocked up 42" table for 5 with a 3' surrounding circle for clearance.

- The pink-boxed area is going to be a pinch point since I assume your household traffic comes in thru the garage and continues on to the rest of the house towards the great room

- The blue-boxed area seems like wasted space (especially if the dining room door remains in the original place). Maybe you have some nice buffets etc to keep there or something.... All the more reason planning for furniture now is useful! =)

A different approach would be to enlarge the island to 8.5' x 4' so you can fit 5 people around it and then turn the island

- No more breakfast table

- Move the door to screened porch from Great Room, into the kitchen (make a double door if ya want!)

- Gives you lots of aisle space for traffic coming and going

- A clean-up area along the 'left' wall with lots of windows and lower drawers for dishes/cutlery

- The main prep spaces are along the 'bottom' wall of the kitchen (>4' space between fridge and stove + the island) - lots of space to put a microwave along here like Mrs Pete suggests

- Move the desk, window, and freezer out of the pantry for the above mentioned reasons (esp. the window)

- Also flipped the closet and hooks/bench in the mudroom - this could give you space to put a transom window above the hooks to bring in some natural light into this space

- Obvs if the pantry is crucial to your meal-making then having it this far from the main prep spaces would be annoying (versus if the pantry is more for storing #AllTheExtraThings then in general the kitchen would host all your meal prep items)

I just renovated and have almost no uppers, all large drawers, they're great so far! I love how airy and bright it feels. I do have a tall floor to ceiling cabinet right next to the fridge for my glasses though so that makes it convenient, and then open shelving for bowls and plates. I'll put extra plates in my other drawers, but not sure how it is living with bowls and plates in drawers only.

I have my microwave in the peninsula but if you want it higher and built in looking I think the easiest way is if you have an area of floor to ceiling cabinets, almost like where they put in double ovens in some kitchens. Definitely agree do not put it above the stove!

In the laundry room, you might want a door to the outside so the muddy dog can come right in for his bath. And keep the sink. Handy for washing up, soaking without bending, and washing tools and things. And be sure the dryer is on an outside wall for venting.

@mamagoose, thank you so much for the suggestions. I really like the idea of flipping the stove and sink. Not only will this look good, but it alleviates my concerns of the hood venting onto or very near the porch. I also like that the DW will be closer to the table. I have a couple of questions though...1) Does the dish drawer open towards the dishwasher? I like the idea of the work flow, but how will the island look having drawers/cabinets on adjacent sides? I'm having a hard time visualizing that. 2) Is my kitchen really big enough for 2 sinks? How big is the typical prep sink? To be honest, I always thought they were luxury items. We usually only have one cook in the kitchen at a time, so it really would be more of luxury for us. However, maybe it will become a necessity as my kids get bigger??? I do see how it "works" with the zones. I'll have to give this some thought.

Thanks again for your time!

@MsPete, thanks for taking the time to reply.

As a fellow short person, I love apron sinks. They're closer to you! And because I hate cleaning around the faucet, I like the idea of a little space behind the sink. Win-win. I didn't realize there were any functional perks for the apron sink. You might have just swayed me back that way!

One observation: You want to be sure your drawers don't "open across something" -- this is really a problem in the corners. To say it better: Just be sure you can actually open all your drawers. Good point.

I don't see any point in having an island + a breakfast table essentially within reach of one another. I think a breakfast table is nicer and makes for better dinner conversation (because everyone can see each other). Valid points.

I don't particularly love the idea of squeezing a desk in between your pantry goods and a freezer ... and natural light is the enemy of food storage. You have a very large laundry room ... I'd move your desk into that area. You can have windows on two walls, and it could be a glorious little space.

While we're on the subject of the laundry room, I'd bump the washer /dryer to the left exterior wall ... and bump the doorway to the right. This will allow you to have a window view at the end of this small hallway; I think it'd be a big positive.

For what do you use your microwave? How often? Would you consider placing the microwave in the pantry? How about building in a shelf on the back side of the island to hold the microwave? I actually use the microwave daily (especially for breakfast), so I really want it in the kitchen.

I like this choice. The microwave is off the countertop, and it's near the refrigerator for leftovers. I like those too, but they are a little high for me. Maybe I can do something similar, but lower.

@damiarain, thanks for all the suggestions!

I was thinking something along the lines of MammaGoose's layout - but also moving the door for the dining room over towards the right (first plan posted below). Some thoughts about this. ....Maybe you have some nice buffets etc to keep there or something.... All the more reason planning for furniture now is useful! =) I do have a buffet I was planning to use along this wall. It isn't a family heirloom, so if relocating the door makes more sense, I'll do it. I'm attaching another floor plan that shows the entire dining room. Do you think the relocated door makes sense in that room too?

A different approach would be to enlarge the island to 8.5' x 4' so you can fit 5 people around it and then turn the island. I think everyone has convinced me that a nice table is the better way to go. I don't know if I'll skip seating all together at the island, but 3 seats might be plenty.

- Move the door to screened porch from Great Room, into the kitchen (make a double door if ya want!) I've been considering this. I need to decide if I can make the furniture work on the porch w/ this door configuration.

- Move the desk, window, and freezer out of the pantry for the above mentioned reasons (esp. the window) Unfortunately I can't move the window. The front elevation doesn't look right without it. I'll just have to invest in a good set of blinds/window treatment. The desk can definitely move if I can find a place for a "pocket office" somewhere else. It can't be in the kitchen because I don't want nosy folks looking at my bills. :) I'll give some serious thought to your ideas on the laundry room.

- Also flipped the closet and hooks/bench in the mudroom - this could give you space to put a transom window above the hooks to bring in some natural light into this space Love this idea, but I'll have to see if another window will fit into the budget. :)

Thank you again for all the suggestions. You all have given me lots of things to think about!!

@Kimberly & Bpathome, thank you both for your suggestions. I really appreciate it.

I do have a tall floor to ceiling cabinet right next to the fridge for my glasses though so that makes it convenient, and then open shelving for bowls and plates. I like the sound of this. Do you have any pictures of that?

I have my microwave in the peninsula but if you want it higher and built in looking I think the easiest way is if you have an area of floor to ceiling cabinets, almost like where they put in double ovens in some kitchens. I like this idea and will look into it. I wonder if they make standard cabinets for the microwaves, or if that would be custom???

In the laundry room, you might want a door to the outside so the muddy dog can come right in for his bath. This would be nice, but I don't think it will work well with the grading.

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1) Does the dish drawer open towards the dishwasher? I like the idea
of the work flow, but how will the island look having drawers/cabinets
on adjacent sides? I'm having a hard time visualizing that.

The dish drawer opens toward the DW--sorry, I usually use arrows, but forgot. The side of the cabinet facing the great room would have a panel. If the island is 8' wide, there would be enough space for three seats (24" per seat) along the back. Similar to these, but with drawers:

The size of the kitchen has less to do with it than the number of cooks, and layout of the appliances. A kitchen with an island is a perfect place for a prep sink--the cook/prepper can face the living areas while prepping (and if you have kids sitting at the island, face them, rather than facing a wall, with your back to the kids.) It also gives you extra spaces for prep, when your husband and kids can help, or room for helpers when you are entertaining.

I'd suggest at least an 18" prep sink, although the one I drew looks more like 24". I have a second sink, and it's nice for someone else to be able to use it for prepping or hand-washing when the main sink is in use. I also use it to thaw and rinse meat, since it's smaller and easier to clean, and while my kitchen is not kosher, I like that raw meat doesn't get rinsed in the same sink I use for dishes and sippy cups.

I usually post this link for newcomers, too, but forgot:

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

One other thing--I would not recommend putting a countertop MW on a shelf in an island. Think about bending over to set the timer, and then reaching in to remove the hot food. It might not be so bad for you, but your husband would be uncomfortable. If you don't want a MW on the counter, the only alternative to a MW drawer is one in an upper cabinet, and I like the windows on the back wall the way I drew them. It's more convenient to locate a MW near the fridge, but maybe it could go on a shelf above the DW, on the short wall, since dishes would be kept in the drawers in the island.

ETA, found a new pic, just posted on the Remodeling forum:

Here's the plan with the MW beside the fridge--I think it would be fine to put the MW lower, but remember most small appliances are sized for 18" between the counter and cabinet, so any lower and the coffee maker or blender might not fit.

Another thought, since the fridge is 32" deep, you could recess it into the pantry space, to make it look more built it. The stub walls into the pantry would need to be adjusted, so that the fridge door would open fully.

@Mamagoose, thank you for all the suggestions!! You've given me a lot to think about, but I feel like I'm getting closer to "my kitchen". The last photo you posted from the remodeling forum is lovely. In fact, it is exactly the island style I've been dreaming of, but was unable to put into words.

I also use it to thaw and rinse meat, since it's smaller and easier to clean, and while my kitchen is not kosher, I like that raw meat doesn't get rinsed in the same sink I use for dishes and sippy cups. I agree. There is a dirty sink and then there is a dirty sink that needs to be sanitized after thawing meat. This is one of the reasons I want(ed?) an extra large work-station sink. You bring up good points as to why I could get the same w/ 2 smaller sinks but also get dedicated prep/cleanup zones. I was in the no prep sink camp, but now you have me thinking....

One other thing--I would not recommend putting a countertop MW on a shelf in an island. I agree. If it is below the counter it will most definitely be a drawer.

If you don't want a MW on the counter, the only alternative to a MW drawer is one in an upper cabinet, and I like the windows on the back wall the way I drew them. It's more convenient to locate a MW near the fridge, but maybe it could go on a shelf above the DW, on the short wall, since dishes would be kept in the drawers in the island. I love the windows where you drew them. My husband wasn't thrilled looking at the plan view, but I sent him the 1st two pictures I saw on google w/ a stove between windows and he loved it too! What about something like this cabinet next to the fridge? (I'm assuming that is a microwave, but maybe it is a small wall oven???) Do you think there is room? Would the kitchen be to heavy on the right side w/ this cabinet next to the fridge without upper cabinets along that wall? Maybe a prominent stove hood would balance it??

Again, thank you for your suggestions. I'm going to think about them while on vacation next week and will likely have more questions when I return. (Oh, I've been reading the link for kitchen newbies that you posted.)