Sorry! lol

The big ones, for me (and these are all typical complaints of the plans posted here on the forum):

House is more than 1-1.5 rooms deep.

Closets/pantry on exterior walls (double sin for being on a corner).

Bathrooms without windows.

Laundry (upstairs) not on exterior wall.

Stairs are a black hole.

No good options for orientation (public areas = southern exposure; garage = block western sun; and I personally prefer bedrooms = northern exposure, because I like to freeze in my sleep).

:-D

Unless you are trying to shoehorn this onto a narrow lot - I would pass.

Pretend you took the main floor by the left and the right and pulled, especially at the master bedroom end. The Master slides left, the master bath slides back, and the guest bedroom slides into the void created by the moving bathroom. That's a start - but then you have all the issues ODD points out - WHO THE HECK PUTS A PANTRY ON AN OUTSIDE CORNER???? Answer - someone who designs on paper.

And lastly - the double door seems to be the "let's jazz this baby up" go to bad idea - and there are lots here.

(What's the weird room in the front of the master bath?) Whatever it is - you are gonna enter that bad boy with a FLOURISH!

I'll play. Starting with the garage and the rear entry. I have that but how would it be situated on your property?

The mudroom is quite narrow at 5'1". Considering cabinets are 1'6" at a minimum, that leaves you with only 3'7" which will create bottlenecks.

Next is the nook. The 11'1' length will not work as 11'1" because you have a walkway which will take up a minimum of 3', so the actual space would be 8' x 7'9". Now try adding a table and chairs and you'll see that only the smallest bistro set would work.

Why is the pantry taking up a corner especially since pantries shouldn't have light in them.

The family room is 18'10" x 19'5" but look at the space that you lose. The 18'10" loses at a minimum 4' on the side closer to the entry and then at least another 3' where the entry to the porch is. That now turns the 18'10" family room down to 11'10". The 19'5" loses what appears to be 2' because of the fireplace so it would be 17'5" which creates a long and narrow family room.

The entry is 6'9" but the stairs invade the space. There appears to be 3 steps. The minimum tread width of a step is 10" so at a minimum, your foyer would lose 30". So your foyer at that part is only 4'3".

Not a fan of the double doors into the bedroom or master bath.

Not a fan of the closets through the bathroom.

Not a fan of the two sets of doors into the guest bathroom and bedroom.

Where in the guest bedroom would you put the bed?

With such a large porch that is covered, there won't be much light entering the house from the rear.
All the bedrooms upstairs will be dark.

How come bedroom 5 has to share their bathroom? And that room is long and narrow.

You might try searching the plan name - I’m fairly certain this plan has been extensively critiqued I’m the past.

Yeh, I think this one has been previously decimated and there is even a thread for people building this home.

All the double doors makes me think it was designed for a bariatric patient. There are a lot of details that I would not do to my clients. To properly evaluate a house, one must know the program (client's needs and wants) and site.

The mudroom entry is so small and squished that it's almost unusable. I'm assuming the nook is for eating, but it's too small to be usable, and will end up being in the way of everyone going in and out through the mudroom.

And I'm not a fan of front entries that open directly into rooms, the way this one opens into the dining room.

I'd suggest using the "nook" space to enlarge the mudroom, and closing off the dining room a bit (not entirely) from the main entry.

Ditch all the double doors.

There is the expense also. The garage has 6 windows?

And that second front door into the dining room?

I’m wondering what the optimized end result of all these plan reviews on this site would be. Something along a simple rectangle with zero issues.

Simple. It's a fat house designed for features, gee-gaws and size...a sort of advanced McMansion. The overall organizing concept is good, but the set designers and the decorators got hold of it, and made it into huge cuteness, where everything is an HGTV snapshot, but almost nothing really makes sense or functions very well.

One very good way to evaluate the first floor of a multi-story house design is to look at the second floor.

If the second floor is efficient and logical, with efficient circulation patterns, and useable, well-proportioned spaces, as a general rule you can begin to assume the first floor is going to be likewise.

On the other hand, if the second floor is very tight and barely functional, or, as in the case of this plan, the second floor is huge, with larger-than-needed rooms which are ill proportioned, and an over abundance of spaces such as bathroom, you can assume that the first floor is really so large and over inflated, that the designer simply had to fill the second floor with extra "stuff".

One of the real tip-offs for residential design is a "loft". If there is a second floor loft, more often than not, it is simply left over space that doesn't work well for much of anything. The larger the loft, and the more awkward the proportions, the greater the chance that the overall design isn't really integrated between the two floors and that the overall design is certainly not well refined and completed.

This plan may look "perfect" on paper, but a closer examination will show that it really is all about simply adding sales features and spaces to try to appeal to all comers in the marketplace, without really being a thoughtful and logical design.

As someone once said, "you can do better!". Wish I knew who said that...

I'm no pro... but that is an awful lot of bathrooms and I don't like the second laundry that's upstairs. Seems like overkill. I'd rather have the space for more room or storage space. Though I think if that room over the garage is as separate as it looks from the rest of the house, having a small laundry set-up in that area might be convenient.

And I'm curious, why is it bad to have a pantry in an outside corner?

And I'm curious, why is it bad to have a pantry in an outside corner?

This forum has a variety of "no no's" that keep coming up over and over and that's one. Problem is context is everything and a "still shot" frame of a fluid, dynamic process usually minimizes context.

All design is a multi leveldecision making process and any decision effects many other decisions. Maybe if all things are equal, placing a pantry on an exterior wall is not the best but rarely are all things equal. Hopefully placing a pantry on an exterior wall yields gains elsewhere. Gains usually unapparent in a single view of the final design.

In architecture school (Va. Tech for me) it was stressed to not be afraid to break some "rules" now and again. And I did it here. Look! a pantry AND a closet on the front exterior wall! OMG!! https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5287971/doug-arg-designed-our-home?n=110

And I'm curious, why is it bad to have a pantry in an outside corner?

The corners of the house are precious, and should go to more important/lived-in/enjoyed spaces. :-) They allow a room to have windows on two sides, which means awesome natural light and breezes coming in from two different directions. Heaven. <3

And I did it here. Look! a pantry AND a closet on the front exterior wall! OMG!!

lol

Notice how, in ARG's design, the really important rooms have windows on 2 sides, despite the pantry? ;-) The pantry, in his design, isn't stealing a corner from another, more critical space. That's not a design flaw; it's what happens sometimes when a home is "skinny." :-D

Thank you everyone for playing along. I have been looking at this plan for a while now and its great to have people who see things that I cant.

There is a build thread, where several people who are building this house have shared input/pictures, but I hadn't came across any critiques of the actual plans themselves. Its easy to get pulled in by the "huge cuteness" as Virgil puts it :) Thanks for giving me some perspective.

You are right about the nook though, they have really had to crush that table in there

[https://www.houzz.com/photos/2016-southern-living-showcase-home-transitional-dining-room-birmingham-phvw-vp~57847942[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/2016-southern-living-showcase-home-transitional-dining-room-birmingham-phvw-vp~57847942)

You are right about the nook though, they have really had to crush that table in there

The best thing you can do with a lot of house plans is imagine you and your family going through daily life in the house. Imagining our family of five using that nook, or the mudroom, or heading to the mudroom through the nook, just leaves me shaking my head -- whether you're carting a baby in a car seat and a toddler and preschooler, or three older kids in school with backpacks and sports equipment, or -- what I have now -- three older teens, a few of their friends, and all their assorted stuff. I can also see the table in the nook becoming an unofficial dumping ground...

cpartist often recommends that people take colored markers to draw various paths to see how a house flows -- from the laundry to the bedrooms, from the garage with groceries to the pantry, etc. I would also include tracing a path from the outdoor kitchen to the nearest bathroom.

I don't believe I've ever seen a property where it made sense to put the garage on the opposite side from the front entry.

In general, I think Southern Living house plans are long on fancy /short on function ... this one is better than most, but still fits that pattern.

- Note that it does require a very specific lot ... a lot with an alley so you can pull into the back-entrance garage.

- With all the space in this house, the garage entry is very narrow. If you include the lockers, your mudroom'll be more narrow than most hallways. However, it has a nice door to the backyard porch, which I assume would be glass /make the space light.

- Look how far you'll have to carry groceries (hope no one's seated at the table /has a chair pulled back blocking your pathway) ... and, yes, I agree with the others who point out that the corner is wasted on the pantry. As for "breaking the rules", sure, you can ... but in this case, do you have a reason to do so? No.

- With a covered back porch and fireplace, the family room won't receive much natural light.

- Laundry against the master ... I'm not entirely against it, but I'd want to have some good insulation in the wall ... and a bookcase against the shared wall. However, the benefit of having the laundry near the master is somewhat mitigated by placing the (rather small) master closet through the bathroom ... if the closet were at the top of the bathroom, it'd make more sense.

- I don't care for the photographs of the master bath ... the shower seems overly "exposed" ... and this is from someone with very little modesty.

- The guest bath also serves for guests ... practical.

- Is that a second upstairs family room, or do they mean it's open to the family room? I'm thinking it's an upstairs family room because otherwise no one could access the left-side bedroom. You also have a bonus room. I think it's practical to have one large living space PLUS a smaller, away room.

- You already pointed out that no one needs this many bathrooms. So much expense. So much maintenance. I'd carve out one nice-sized bath to serve the three upstairs bedrooms.

- The upstairs laundry room will be difficult to vent ... and it has no space at all for waiting loads, which means they'll end up on the floor. Do you really a second laundry? If so, I'd say make one of the two unnecessary upstairs bathrooms into a larger, nicer laundry.

decimate is only 10% fatality.

Completely off topic but I noticed that too. The Washington Post had a fun column on miss used words and phrases and noted that word. "Building to a crescendo" is another one. The crescendo IS the build up.

There is no crescendo here...

My favorite is penultimate.

had to look it up:

decimate: kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group

yikes!

I did know that decem = 10 in Latin, so I guess that makes sense. You are right lazy gardens, I was thinking it meant more along the lines of annihilate. I'm much better with medical words!

And thank you all for the critique of these plans. I have three small kids and do a lot of shopping at Aldi. I never remember to bring my own bags and I just end up throwing everything loose into my trunk. Then when I get home I'll stick it into a full-size garden wheelbarrow which I drive right on into the pantry. No room for a wheelbarrow here! Although I guess I imagined if I lived in such a lovely home I would magically no longer be the type of person who rolls a wheelbarrow through her kitchen...

It's so tempting to design houses for the type of people we wish we were, rather than they type of people we are. We did a bit of that when we put an additional on our house a number of years ago. This time we're aiming for a house designed for the reality of who we are.

Over on the Home Decorating forum, the great Magnaverde had a saying, Decorate for the life you live, not the life you wish you had. To echo Kristin, remembering who you are and how you live is even more important when you're designing a house.

What happens if ten people decimate this plan??

What happens if ten people decimate this plan??

Well, the math starts to get complicated. If the original structure is 3000 sq. ft., and the first person "decimates" it - it would then by 2700 sq. ft.

Decimating THIS structure would then yield one that is 2430 sq ft. And so on, until you're left with a "tiny house."

Doesn't seem like a good idea, frankly.

A bath for EACH upstairs bedroom is overkill. Or maybe you like cleaning those each and every week?

Shift closets around in those upper bedrooms so that they don't interfere with the placement of windows.

Others have found other things, this is enough for me right now.

"...What happens if ten people decimate this plan??..."

Yet another strong contender for Best of 2018...!

We're on a roll people...

I don't believe I've ever seen a property where it made sense to put the garage on the opposite side from the front entry.

Mine?

Although I guess I imagined if I lived in such a lovely home I would magically no longer be the type of person who rolls a wheelbarrow through her kitchen...

I'm guessing you'll continue to roll that wheelbarrow through the mudroom to the kitchen. Design a house that works for how you live and not your fantasy life.

Heck if I had built my fantasy house, it would have looked a lot different, and cost a heck of a lot more.

Wouldn’t want a laundry room bordering the master bedroom, too noisy.

Funny this is the one regret I have with my house. I listened to everyone who said not to put the laundry right next to the master, even though I never run the machines overnight. And because of that, I put the machines under my staircase in closets which is fine, but if I had instead put them closer to the master, I would have had extra room for sorting.

Which again shows, build for how you live and not how everyone else lives or what your fantasy is.

decimate is only 10% fatality ... The crescendo IS the build up.

I caught it, but we lit teachers try hard NOT to talk about such things. Deci = ten. Decimal, decade, decinormal ... okay, can't think of any more.

I ... do a lot of shopping at Aldi. I never remember to bring my own bags and I just end up throwing everything loose into my trunk. Then when I get home I'll stick it into a full-size garden wheelbarrow which I drive right on into the pantry.

I do that too -- well, not the wheelbarrow part, but I do throw Aldi's purchases loose into my trunk, and I WILL NOT pay .07 for a bag. In our new house, we plan to have a laundry cart -- the kind they have in laundromats -- stored under a countertop in the laundry room. It'll be for hauling laundry to the closet AND hauling groceries in from the car.

And as a literature teacher, I have to say, "So much depends upon a red wheelbarrow ..."

It's so tempting to design houses for the type of people we wish we were, rather than they type of people we are.

I think that ALL THE TIME when I see plans on this website.

Funny this is the one regret I have with my house. I listened to everyone who said not to put the laundry right next to the master, even though I never run the machines overnight.

Worst hotel stay of my entire life: Moab, Utah ... our hotel room shared a wall with the laundry, and all night long we heard THUMP, THUMP, THUMP. My husband, who is a very polite and well-behaved Southern gentleman, would not let me go complain.

And me, the not well behaved Northern transplant, would have gone and complained anyway...

Diff'rent strokes. :-) I do a LOT of night time laundry. So the master and laundry sharing a wall really WOULD be a no-go.

In fact, I have to run everything through the "what will the girls do with that" filter. And since they will likely always be with me, things designed around them are not "temporary" in nature. I have no great hope, for instance, that the youngest will outgrow her lack of concept of danger and tendency to death-defying antics on stairwells.

I also tried to think about what THEY like to do, and where they WOULD do it - rather than where I'd like them to do it. As well as arranging things to allow them to help with certain chores. (It's good for them. The oldest is more than capable of doing her own laundry, but has enough CP that I don't want her carrying hampers down my current basement stairs.)

Moral of the story - think about all the things that WILL happen. Not that you'd like to do. (Although I'm always more likely to use my craft stuff in a lighter space. So getting it out of the basement means I'm probably going to use it more.)

And since they will likely always be with me, things designed around them are not "temporary" in nature.

I get this. Totally. :-D My husband and I will design with the idea that the children will have various degrees of independence, none of which are likely to involve ever leaving the nest. Which we're cool with, thankfully, since we have so many!

Goodstuff: I got a chuckle out of your wheelbarrow story. My mother's house was designed where the garage was on one corner and the kitchen on the opposite. She had to drag groceries all the way across her house. When she got older it came to a point where she just couldn't do it. She would leave the groceries in her car and wait until I got off work and could come over and bring them in. We solved the problem by giving her my son's old wagon he had as a child. She would load her wagon up and wheel it to the kitchen. Worked great and she got some of her independence back :-)

Mrs Pete, you made me smile with the William Carlos Williams :)

I have been sketching out my own dream house for a while now (which, by the way, is just a giant rectangle). I don't dare post it here because it will be decimated to the tenth power!!

However, the pantry is on an exterior wall and I originally drew it with a sliding hatch type door that opens to the outside driveway. That way I could pull right up to it and shove the groceries straight inside (onto a counter made of roller bars). The whole imaginary house is built specifically for my family's needs, no frills, it is utilitarian to the max.

I got momentarily distracted by the excellent marketing team at Southern Living but after reading all you guys' comments I will go back to designing my enormous concrete floored barndominium. Thanks!

I have been sketching out my own dream house for a while now (which, by the way, is just a giant rectangle). I don't dare post it here because it will be decimated to the tenth power!!

I have a design (one of many, lol) that is a 68'x68' cube with a 36'x36' open courtyard smack dab in the middle of it. It's one of my favorites.

;-)

I have a design (one of many, lol) that is a 68'x68' cube with a 36'x36' open courtyard smack dab in the middle of it. It's one of my favorites.

That's how they build houses in Mexico.

That's how they build houses in Mexico.

My elementary schools in Latin America (both on and off base) were designed this way, with fountains in the middle. The building that was "home base" for my major field of study at University was also built this way, again with a fountain in the courtyard. It was absolutely unbelievable how cool the courtyard stayed, regardless of how hot it was outside!

(My cube is also meant to be Spanish Colonial Revival, of course... But I might be able to put a Texas Hill Country skin on it. Maybe.)

But I'm wanting an architect, so it all doesn't matter, lol!!! All just fun stuff to keep me awake while I nurse a baby in the middle of the night.

At least now I know why an outside corner pantry is supposed to be a bad thing. Kind of funny, I love my outside corner pantry. But then it's niched between the dining room bay windows on the south wall, and on the west wall is the back door originally. Later they enclosed the back area off the door into a solarium. Plenty of light and good breezes when all the doors and windows are open. And the panrty has no windows happily enough- I like to store my goods dark and not waste potential storage space on windows. And the pantry has good lighting.

Now that I know better.. I still like the pantry in the corner like that. I would omit the window on the right side and use the wall for storing shallow hanging things.. but change the window that opens onto the porch- move the door from right there into the dining room and move it to opening into the pantry instead. Replace where the door spot was into the dining room with a window. And more windows on that wall to boot.

But then I'm a big gardener and cook... I'd rather haul my garden goodies right into the pantry off that porch rather than around to the other side and through the dining room and family room and then into the kitchen.

And also change some of that bottom wall on the garage to include a door too. For secondary right off the kitchen access... and also, a cleanup/bathroom access for when I'm grubby from the garden and need to clean up. Or take supplies I brought home directly outside instead of through the house. Or guests parking out front to just wander straight into the backyard.

And the double doors thing? I like the front porch and back porch double doors- if the house is positioned right for the breezes that's sublime. And I like the double doors into the master suite. But the extra double doors into the master bath and closet is too much.

There's a family in Chicago, who bought a former grocery store in the middle of a block. They designed their home and workspace within the walls, with a courtyard in the middle. It's on a corner, so their front door is on the side street and their business door on the Main Street. They can access from the alley, too. They say they love it because they have outdoor space that most people in their neighborhood don't have, and it's quiet, removed from street noise. I'd love to see the house sometime.

Atrium houses ( courtyards in the center) go back at least as far as Pompeii. The eruption there was AD79, I think, so the advantages of an atrium have been understood for a few years...Google atrium for lots of good information...

Mr. Virgil, thank you for giving me the name of the darn things!!!!! Off to search....

:-D

Love courtyards! Check out this 1854 courthouse/jail. I can just imagine it. Great courtyard, and I would never worry about letting my kids play alone outside in the yard with a 15ft stone wall around it!

https://www.oldhousedreams.com/2018/04/19/1854-courthouse-jail-ontario-canada/

@goodstuf73 I'll go against the grain here since the thread is pretty overwhemingly negative on this plan. I've walked two of these in person. The last one very recently and it was very nicely appointed.

The posters above have good points, but at least for our needs I found it very well laid out. You should probably find the "owners" thread here, read there and look at some pictures of constructed ones to help balance out the opinions. Much is going to depend on your lot too though.

Thanks Sam, the owners thread is what originally made me fall in love with these plans. I still think that there are quite a few positives but I appreciate everyone's very valid opinions, and their ability to see things that wasn't able to.

I have not yet been able to walk through one of these homes, but I think that would go a long way toward being able to evaluate the function of the space. I haven't yet ruled it out completely.