Tiny cedar/spruce like trees growing in grass like weeds
horizonx
5 years ago
Featured Answer
Sort by:Oldest
Comments (30)
horizonx
5 years agoRelated Discussions
Health and Beauty of Norway Spruce Trees--a Hypothesis
Comments (29)spedigrees: Limestone varies in magnesium content. If you go to your local agricultural store--I am not sure what you have up there--and ask for “high mag limestone“--crushed or pulverized--they should be able to direct you. The analysis is always posted on the bag. Dolomitic limestone is generally “high-mag,” but perhaps other types of limestone have a high magnesium content. Our soils here in the northern Shenandoah Valley are very high in magnesium, and high mag limestone underlies a good portion of our soils, and high mag limestone is readily available. And, almost all the NS in this area look very nice, in spite of our hot, dry climate. As for soil acidity--that should not be a problem for Norway spruce, unless the soil is extremely acidic, maybe in the low 4’s. At my timberland, where the soils are a bit below 5, Norway spruce does very well. I am not sure what an optimum pH would be, and it would probably vary with soil type. Maybe somewhere in the 5.5 range is "safe." As for magnesium for Norway spruce--this has been fairly well documented. I titled my original post “a hypothesis,” but there is substantial evidence. A site factors study done at SUNY Syracuse some years ago now, noted that “at least 75 kg per hectare” is needed for good NS growth. Studies in Europe, where there has been extensive decline in NS forests, has shown that the acid rain causes a reduction in the availability of magnesium, and supplementing magnesium often solves the problem. And, I have made some personal observations--not scientific, and without all the facts--that magnesium supplementation can make a dramatic difference. But, the main effect of magnesium may not be in height growth, but in the fullness, density, and lushness of the foliage. I have seen many poor looking, thin foliaged NS trees growing reasonably fast in height. Also, the thin foliage on some Norway spruce trees has causes other than a lack of an optimum supply of magnesium. And, I know, some of that is genetic, and not correctable. As for your experiment: Yes, 5 years should be long enough to show some results, but no sooner. The limestone has to dissolve into the soil, get down to the roots, and, because NS hold their needles for several years, the "thickening" of the foliage may not be vis1ble for several years. BUT, and this is a big "but," the effect may not really show up on very young trees. It may help the growth rate, but as for foliage density, that is never really noticeable until trees are somewhat older and larger--maybe not until they are 20 feet tall or more will any difference be really clear. As for the growth rate: white pine usually starts growing faster than NS. How old are your trees? How tall? NS trees don't begin to grow fast until they are about 4.5 feet high, and that could be only after 6 to 8 years. At that point, they should "take off." On the best soils, and in the right climate, an average of 28 inches is possible, with some years the new shoots elongating up to 4 feet or more. But growth averaging 20 to 24 inches is good for many sites. Norway spruce and white pine, assuming equally good strains, should grow equally well over the first 50 years. The white pine up to about 18 years should outgrow the NS, but after that NS should catch up a bit. After 50 years NS should outgrow the white pine for some years. SUNY Syracuse did a growth curves study for NS, and found that for the first 60 years--after the trees reach 4.5 feet in height, there is no "curve" as such, but a straight line. White pine growth curves bend sharply over to the right after the first 18 years or so, and at 50 years the growth averages about 1 foot, while at the same age, NS trees can still be growing 28 inches per year. But this rate does begin to decline not too long after the 60-year mark. On the best sites both should eventually make 150 feet or more in forest stands. Open grown NS should make 120 feet or more on better sites. As for the blue spruce and magnesium, I really don't know. Tom may be right about this. --spruce...See MoreWetland trees like....
Comments (14)Thanks all. Toronado, I have Metasequoia along the edge at the top of this clay trough. Sits pretty high. Will look into the N. aquatica. With a name like that, it has to be wetland. Looks like I need to add N. aquatica. One site I looked at mentioned a bunch of the trees I have down there. I forgot about the Quercus nigra and the Forestiera acuminata I planted a couple of years ago. Salicaceae. I might try N. ogeche if I can find a cheap one. I forgot to add that I am in SCen PA, very close to the MD line. Not sure if the Nyssa would live, but I have Q. nigra, which is a bit out of its zone. The Musa basjoo also pushes the zone thing, and I'd love to try the fruit of the N. ogeche. Why do you like your Swamp Cottonwood? Tom, I have the trees you mention elsewhere on the property. Took 3" seedlings of Thuja from my sister's lawn some years ago. I also took Moosewood (A. pennsyl.), Betula papyrifera, and White Pine. I bought Corylus americana and others. It was a stage when I wanted to recreate a bit of the Maine woods in PA. The Larix died ( it's called Pinette Rouge [Red Fir] in our dialect) , the Thuja is planted too close to a Pecan. But the Black Birch, White Birch and Sweet Birch all live. I even grew another Wh. Birch from seed and planted it near (too near) a White Pine. The Balsam Fir was planted about 10 ft from my White Spruce. Now the branches meet, something I thought would only happen when I was a doddering old man. Every time I look at that pair it reminds me of how stupid I am. Keeps me humble. Scotute, I have a Hackberry near the Sycamore. It took a few years to take off, and I had lost the tag. One friend took a feel of those rough leaves and said the only thing it could be was Hackberry. This has been a very slow growing tree for me. The Bur Oak is interesting. I don't think it would grow on the patch in question, but I have been looking for something to plant near the other, permanent, stream. The soil there is a bit better, and the Q. macrocarpa would probably like it. Greenthumbz, at this end of the Commonwealth, people would send the men with white coats if I planted Black Walnut or Acer negundo. Are they not a plague in Western Penn.? I have to be able to look my friends who grew up around here in the eye. Thanks for the suggestions though. I know I hadn't mentioned Black Walnut as being here, maybe I try to forget them. I did take some nuts to a friend in Machias, ME. I warned him in advance about what would happen if they grew. I suspect there are not enough heat units there to ripen the nuts. Sort of like growing a Juglans regia in Scotland. Dax, several people mentioned Q. lyrata. When I looked it up it made me smile. Most descriptions mentioned "poorly drained clay soil". How could I not already have this tree! Definitely will go with that and the 2 Nyssas mentioned. One nice thing, when I look up all these wetland species mentioned, some site mention associated plants. Might try another Larix laricina too. Thanks for the link. That is exactly the kind of nursery I haunt. Small plants. Easy for an old lazy man to dig a hole. Can I send you the clay I take out? Makes nice ashtrays, paper weights or defensive projectiles. You can't get it off your boot, it has to wear off. If you can get a stand of corn in it, it need not rain the rest of the season and you'll get a crop. When the combine goes across, the tires push the water down the row, but the ground is so tight the machine hardly sinks. The corn was shelled last night, and I would guess about 120-130 bushels/ac because there was a big drowned spot on one edge. Some years when it doesn't rain and none of it drowns, it can make 150+. Not astounding for the Midwest, but pretty good corn around here. Thanks for the responses all. The people who come after me thank you too....See MoreUnder Spruce Trees - Revisited
Comments (6)I have a mature spruce tree planted in the front yard, way to close to the house, by the previous owners. In fact, even in the back yard there was a spruce tree stump left in the CENTRE of the yard. It sort of confuses me picturing a big spruce blocking the middle of the yard (I would have put it off to the side), but anyways... Grass doesn't really grow underneath the front yard spruce, but it does grow "sparsely" not too far out from the canopy, maybe 8 feet. During wet spells it gets a bit of length, but it's the first to brown during drought. Before I knew what bishops gout weed was, I tried growing it right under the spruce and even that struggled, though it did spread just a bit in two years. I removed after I joined this forum and realized that if it ever did "break free" into the better soil, it would overtake my yard. About 10 feet from the centre trunk of the spruce I do have shrubs lining the front of the house, hedge cottoneaster. They have done remarkably well despite dry and only part shade. Actually, these shrubs started life as seedlings which where growing under my parent's deck at the lake which is kind of neat. I also have a globe caragana not too far away. It grows slowly but surely. After eight years it's only 2 feet high and not very wide. On the side of the front steps I tried to get a dropmore honeysuckle vine to grow. Thought it would look nice on the railing, but it really hasn't done much, some year's it resembles a 3 foot high rope but not very bushy. Despite all this, in a spot by the spruce and the sidewalk that leads to my front steps, I did plant a mugo pine I got on clearance (yeah, one of those inpulse buys). After two years it's done fairly well. Actually, if it struggles a bit and remains small that would be ideal for that spot anyways, as I actually have a real small yard. In our neighborhood, I have seem some people with spruce's put landscape ties around them and then mulch (either wood or stone mulch) but I can't say I really like that look. For the most part I do run the lawnmower under the spruce (for the bit of grass and odd weed that grows there) and about twice a year rake up pine cones and needles. Glen...See Morehostas under spruce trees
Comments (9)The area is so shaded that grass will not grow ==>>> if grass wont grown... NOTHING WILL THRIVE... crickey its the number one invasive.. i will grow in cracks in ashplalt weed.. lol ... if it wont grow.. give up ... then on top of that .... under my mature conifers... i am talking 30 to 40 foot trees.. its a desert ... and i dont think you will ever be able to apply enough water for any hosta.. other than the driveway workhorses ... [new post if you want that list] you said: So would I be correct in thinking that it is probably due to water competition from the tree roots? ==>>. bingo and a bango... you know much more than you are admitting to yourself ... and dont even get me going on cottonwood ... water suckers supreme ... and if they are close.... say the height of the tree ... i doubt you will ever water enough to overcome them and the conifers ... except for the above ... ken...See MoreEmbothrium
5 years agoken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
5 years agoTiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
5 years agoHarris Feinstein
3 years agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
3 years agoHU-370113958
3 years agoken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
3 years agoHU-848410406
last yearhorizonx
last yeartsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
last yearhorizonx
last yeargardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
last yearhorizonx
last yearHU-833760556
last yearTiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
last yearHU-833760556
last yeargardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
last yearHU-833760556
last yearDon Gates
29 days agoDon Gates
27 days agofloraluk2
26 days agolast modified: 26 days agocecily 7A
25 days agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
25 days agolinaria_gw
24 days agoDon Gates
24 days agoDon Gates
24 days ago
Related Stories
CHRISTMASHow to Light Your Christmas Tree Like a Pro
Give yourself frustration-free tree lighting this year — the trick is clever cord management
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDES10 Top California Native Plants, Trees and Grasses
Enjoy a fuss-free, water-wise garden in the Golden State by growing plants naturally in tune with the climate and wildlife
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDESGrow Your Own Privacy: How to Screen With Plants and Trees
Use living walls to lower your home and garden's exposure while boosting natural beauty in your landscape
Full StoryTREES10 Top Trees to Grow in Containers
These container-friendly trees make great specimens for pots on the patio or marking an entrance
Full StoryEDIBLE GARDENSHow to Grow 10 Favorite Fruit Trees at Home
Plant a mini orchard in fall, winter or early spring to enjoy fresh-off-the-tree fruit the following year
Full StoryHOMES AROUND THE WORLDWorld of Design: 11 Book Lovers and Where They Like to Read
Bibliophiles across the globe reveal their top books and favorite reading spots, from a 2-story library to an artfully curated book nook
Full StoryHOUZZ TVYou’ve Never Seen a Barn Conversion Like This Before
A family of four converts an 80-year-old barn into a warm, cozy home with a one-of-a-kind exposed interior roof frame
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDESGreat Design Plant: Purple Needle Grass, California’s State Grass
The long-lived, drought-tolerant Stipa pulchra is as admired for its benefits as for its good looks
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDESGreat Design Tree: Australian Tea Tree
A living sculpture with an unmistakable appearance, this coastal native creates an intriguing landscape scene
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDESZen Weeding: The Smart Way to Weed Your Garden
Be mindful about keeping weeds from taking hold in your yard by knowing when and how to get rid of each type
Full Story
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)