Umm, I'm of the conviction that a rose is a rose no matter what you call it...so if the plant looks good, who cares ?

There's others that say the first impression is the name though.

Argument could be made that one might get more men into growing them by avoiding the "cutesy" type names. In which case, names like those, Jeff, might work. heh

I was curious as to what the "regulations" are for naming.

1. Does the plant need to be judged "worthy" of naming by a judging body?

2. Does the pedigree have to be known? (And if "yes", does that mean that if one crosses two NoIDs that the offspring cannot be named?)

Ah, so it sounds like it follows the same rules used for orchids for the most part. I do not know, though, if one can name orchid hybrids if one or both parents are NoIDs .... pedigree matters so that a cross may be reproduced. Using a NoID or NoIDs would not make that possible down the line. I have seen orchid hybrids in which the name does describe the color -- Slc Jewelbox 'Orange' comes to mind.

"I would like more of a systematic botanical classification.

Well, if a sport is going to go every which way, maybe sports should belong to a "genre" called Chameleonus, to Latinize it."

If you mean breeders should use more Latinized sounding names, that is verbotten ... and for good reason. The use of such names is reserved for only species -- to avoid confusion between species and hybrids.

Chosen names can indeed influence buyers. However, there is always the question as to what names will be appealing. I could see a name like Heartbreak Kid having some appeal ... particularly for a "red" with white fantasy or white puff fantasy (tears) on the flowers. Whereas I would find it boring ... and even annoying ... to have a bunch of plants with "Silverglades" in the name. So even with naming it is a gambit -- what one person may find appealing may be a turnoff to another.

I guess after somebody takes all the time and effort to get a new hybrid, they don't want to jinx it by naming it something that may not appeal to everybody. I buy what looks good not what sounds good too. I just thought somebody would have broke free of the pack and named their new plant something interesting. (My yellow farts may be a tad much though!)

Jeff, if you do not like the AVSA name, you can always call it Rusty Buckets or whatever you want. The AV will not object. I give mine names of fictional female characters, like Becky in Tom Sawyer or his Aunt Polly.

Good Luck with that.

Yolanda

Because your rep and product can be inextricably and forever tied to a name, companies of more expensive items spend huge amounts of money researching public reaction to a name. Even the big guys screw up, as evidenced by the Chevy Nova, No va meaning 'no go' in Spanish.

Products have to look good and sound good most of the time in order to sell well. I would be willing to bet that an AV colorfully packaged with a cute name (Optimara) will outsell a plainly packaged badly named one in sales to the public.

Credit to Jeff's very thought-provoking post -- it has led to some pretty clever, witty, and interesting comments... :-)

Do the names have to be cute? Sweet? Even the male hybridizers seem to pick cute names. Just once Id like to shop for AV's and find some not so cute names. How about a really nice "Rusty Pliers" Bloody Thumb" or "Twisted Rivet"?

That's because most of the market (for AV's) is female ...

Seems kind of sexist. Where is the complaint department?

I agree, I've never felt like a female, and I don't currently know any local ladies that do AVs. Sexism (lol)

Note how I deftly excluded all the females on here that aren't local?

Jeff, since all discussion stopped, I think we broke them :(

I think Aegis is an exceptional friend to this forum.

I also think that we should never be afraid to look at reality, and if it is true that much of the market is female, and if it is true that these sorts of names sell, well then there you have it.

Sexism is complicated, because no one will argue that men and women are different. I personally think that there should be equal pay for equal work. But it is either true or not true that women make a higher percentage of purchases of violets, and it is either true or not true that certain kinds of names sell better. If both are true, saying so can hardly be deemed sexist.

Aaaah. It was a joke. I think highly of Aegis and would never purposefully say anything to hurt hers or anyone else feelings. Just light hearted banter, ok?

Ehhh ... I'm one of the guys, Jeff ...

"The Silverglades series were developed by a woman in South Africa. ...She probably chose the name of the series to designate them as hers. ...Whereas, Rob's and Lyon's want to sell plants. So they probably use marketing methods."

Actually, that would count as a marketing tool. I have seen the same thing out of some orchid producers. I understand it is a way to "get one's name brand out there" and some folks will be more likely to buy a product (and even pay more $) simply because of the "brand name" but, personally, I find it off putting. On a few particularly prized/unique plants sure, but when a hybridizer insists on doing so with just about everything they produce it is annoying.

"I was being sarcastic when I joked that sports should belong to a category called chameleon, and dignify their inconsistency with a dignified-sounding ending."

That is okay. It was still a point worthy of being addressed. I have run into folks before who wanted to give a plant they produced a more "sciency" type name and were mystified when they were told "no."

"That's because most of the market (for AV's) is female ..."

Very true. For many people, AV's still carry the "stigma" of being flowers that only little old ladies grow.

"But it is either true or not true that women make a higher percentage of purchases of violets, and it is either true or not true that certain kinds of names sell better. If both are true, saying so can hardly be deemed sexist."

Ah, but this, in turn, brings up the question: Does the cutesy naming scheme discourage men from buying the plants or getting into the hobby at all? It very well might. Sexism is "taught" in many ways in every culture -- and much (if not most) of it indirectly or subliminally. Such a line of conversation could get very deep and/or intense, I imagine. ;-)

Isn't it Rob who named one Suicidal Squirrel ? I hate that name but if I liked the plant I would get it anyway and wonder what ever possessed him to name it that horrendous name! Rosie

Hee, it probably has an interesting backstory, like the only seedling to have survived a cold winter greenhouse after a suicidal squirrel chewed through the power substation wiring and caused a massive blackout (has happened in my area). The blackened squirrel was eventually removed, restoring power.

Silverglade probably related to the name of hybridizer - Sylvia H. Sonoma - is moniker for the hybrids by Byron Bork from California. Kristi's Spunk - is a hybrid by Paul Sorano's daughter Kristi. That's a pity that she chose a different career- she sure had the touch. Dr. Jeff Smith experiments with introducing Saintpaulia species back into the hybrid pool. His trailers start with Yesterday, his rosette plants start with Tomorrow.

If you do everything right - including reproduction from leaf to leaf to leaf - it takes 3 years from pollination to registration. Plus usually it is not one cross. I was at the lecture by Dr. Jeff Smith on one of the conventions - and he explained how to use recessive and dominant treats - to achieve the result - which includes back crossing or crossing between the siblings to make a recessive trait show up. His example was - the hybridizer wants to get the variegated leaf coral star blossom with geneva edge hybrid - and he charted in how many crosses he can get it achieved. So- instead of 10 years of random crossings - you get there may be in 3 crosses. Experienced hybridizers already have the plant imagined - before they start pollinating. And since it takes a while - I bet they have years of time to come with a meaningful name.

Orchid hybridizers came up with a very detailed Grex system to describe the plant ancestry. I though do not believe that by repeating the cross you can reproduce it exactly. It is like throwing the whole bunch of dice twice and expecting that everything will coincide. But the results of the repeat cross will be very similar even if you won't get the same pick of the litter again. Paul - correct me- I defer to your expertise. '

Regarding hybridizers. Growers are mostly women - hybridizers are both.

It was a fad for Russian hybridizers to name the plants using the names from Alexandre Dumas books...plenty of books, plenty of names, all these beautiful women and courageous heroes... we all loved these books when we were kids... though with time - you understand that the only useful guy there - was an arch-villain Cardinal De Richelieu...

"Isn't it Rob who named one Suicidal Squirrel ? I hate that name but if I liked the plant I would get it anyway and wonder what ever possessed him to name it that horrendous name! Rosie"

And again, something that may indicate a difference of the sexes mentality or perhaps differences in people's sense of humor .... personally, I got a chuckle out of that name. (But then I was a big fan of FarSide, too. heh)

"Orchid hybridizers came up with a very detailed Grex system to describe the plant ancestry. I though do not believe that by repeating the cross you can reproduce it exactly. It is like throwing the whole bunch of dice twice and expecting that everything will coincide. But the results of the repeat cross will be very similar even if you won't get the same pick of the litter again"

Orchid breeding is very detailed and regimented which keeps it very organized. In short, lineage does matter.

How likely repeating a cross will be to give rise to duplication of an outcome, depends largely upon how complex the cross is. If one is creating a primary hybrid -- crossing two species -- the diversity of phenotypes (physical differences) which will be evident across all the offspring is typically fairly limited -- unless some mutation occurs. Under these circumstances, recreating a particular hybrid phenotype is definitely in the realm of possibility and may even be highly likely. The more complicated the cross (and with some hybrids, their ancestry may include 5 or more species), the harder it can be to reproduce a certain phenotype. This is particularly true if the traits in question do not lend themselves to simple dominance- recessive rules. However, if one does wish to reproduce a specific phenotype of a complex cross, utilization of the same parental hybrids generally gives the best odds of success. (And particularly if it is a hybrid no longer in circulation but has once more had a resurgence of popularity it may be worthwhile to recreate it.)

The emphasis on keeping track of lineage, in turn, gives rise to a very organized naming system. With orchid breeding, all the offspring of a particular cross are given a common grex (group) name. For example, all offspring of the cross Cattleya sincorana x C. walkeriana are named C. Love Knot. It doesn't matter if Rosie crosses her sincora & walkeriana, and I cross my two plants, while Irina crosses her two plants. Because the same two species (or hybrids) are crossed -- even though they aren't the exact same two plants genetically) -- all offspring will be Love Knot. But what about the fact that the offspring may have different phenotypes (physical appearances), one may wonder? That's where the next level of naming comes into play. Let's say Rosie has a resulting Love Knot that has an unusual red blush to the flowers. She may decide to have it registered as C. Love Knot 'Rosie's Blush'. This new addition to the name is referred to as a cultivar name and it is used to distinguish her fine specimen from all the other Love Knots out there. No other Love Knot -- unless it is an exact clone (reproduced by division of the mother plant or by tissue culture cloning of the mother plant) -- will be allowed to have that same cultivar name.

In addition, keeping track of lineage serves another purpose ... that of judging. While anyone can decide to register their plant, it costs $ to do so. That being the case, most people don't bother to register plants unless it is either for sentimental reasons, or has been judged worthy of being named. In the US, the judging body would be the American Orchid Society (AOS). When judges examine a plant, they compare it to the parents (in the case of a new hybrid) or compare it against the other plants sharing that same grex name. If the plant is deemed a notable improvement in some aspect or unique appealing trait, it will be recommended for registration. The plant owner may then decided to pay the necessary fees for registration or elect not to have the plant registered.