California Governor Jerry Brown refused to use the National Guard at the border in 2014.

So far Sacramento is waiting for details from DHS before responding.

Oregon Governor Kate Brown has refused Trump's request.

phoggie Legal IS legal....Illegal IS ILLEGAL!...we have laws! What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?
It used to be illegal for African Americans to vote. It still wasn't right...

PK, people find their way into the various types of reserves and National Guard for a variety of reasons. Some for money. Some ex-active duty people who want to earn extra retirement points or stay involved with the military. Some are civilian DOD employees who get added perks from doing so. Some working off ROTC or other scholarship obligations. Sadly, some find it to be one place in their life where their rank gives them the opportunity to boss others around.

I think the basic obligation for those in an active reserve status remains one weekend a month or its equivalent and two weeks of active duty a year, the so-called summer camp. The two weeks isn't always in the summer, people can go separately rather than with their units, and some volunteer for extra weeks/months of active duty or extra days during the year for particular assignments or money or whatever.

Both the active forces of all branches as well as the reserves and NG of all branches are considerably smaller and downsized from where they were when I was in, starting in the last few years of the Vietnam War. Both active and reserve forces are all volunteer now, which was decidedly NOT the case when I was in. When I was in the reserves, nearly 100% of the enlisted ranks were people like me who volunteered for the certainty of a stated reserve assignment, rather than the uncertainty of fate coming from being drafted.

Big difference between attending a scheduled 'summer camp' and being deployed on a Trump whim for an unknown length of time to do...what is it they'll do, again? Will they be conscripted to march in his parade?

Chisue,

Don't forget. Thousands of reserve component soldiers and National Guard soldiers made up 45% of those deployed multiple times to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan. Certainly worse than serving on the border of Mexico. So I think they'll be able to handle the border assignment.

Brushworks, any actual numbers to National Guard that served in Iraq and Afghanistan? I am having problems finding that answer, I did find what you posted.

From what I have learned, the Guard will be a support to the Border Patrol until 'The Wall' gets built.

As far as the OP, the guard will not be used as law enforcement. They will be doing the duties that do not require them to be armed to free up Border Patrol Agents to do law enforcement.

maddie,

You can read more at National Guard

" the Guard will be a support to the Border Patrol until 'The Wall' gets built"

That will be the week after when pigs fly. That's a long deployment. Even longer than the years spent so far wasting US lives and money in Iraq and Afghanistan, though that continues.

There will never be a wall the length of the southern border. You maybe didn't hear it here first but you can believe it all the same.

Has anyone considered where the money is coming from to pay for posting a small army along the border?

The original poster asked, "Do you think it will be dangerous?" Yes, I do. The greatest danger will be from the summer heat that may approach 120 F.

Brushworks, I don't have illegals living next door....they live across the street.

They are hard working people and good neighbors.

Better than the murderers (white family) up the street or the druggies on the corner. Fortunately all of them are incarcerated.

I think if the big farms, restaurants and other employers of "illegals" would be held accountable, the problem would be solved.

I'm not sure Trump does any thinking, as that word is known for other people.

He does a lot more thinking about protecting our country and its people, than past presidents have - he runs circles around Obama. Who did everything he could to destroy this country, and he still is.

The greatest danger will be from the summer heat that may approach 120 F.

may approach 120? you can be darn sure it certainly will - and higher.

and many illegals will die in those trucks that aren't air conditioned. They're crammed like cattle into the coyote houses along the way from the border to other states. they've often found 20 or more stuffed into a vacant house in the Phx area - in the summer, no a/c, no running water, no food. In the summer, those houses get way hotter than 120! and they have no water... and no working plumbing.

our tax dollars pay to have those poor souls taken to hospitals to save their lives. And I am glad we do that. Better still, we need to stop people from bringing them into the country (at a high price) and then 'storing' them like merchandise.

The greatest danger will be from the summer heat that may approach 120 F.

And Iraq and Afghanistan have the same summer heat. I'm not for or against the border patrol activity, however I do know the National Guard soldiers will be prepared for anything, especially the summer heat. Don't underestimate the National Guard.

The Army knows all about hydration and acclimatization. It's in the Handbook.

Soldiers at the border won't be wearing full combat gear averaging 60 to 100 pounds. Big difference than in Iraq/Afghanistan.

No-one is forcing illegal immigrants into hot trucks or making them stay in houses without air conditioning. Those conditions are a result of a decision that they willingly made. Certainly they know what extreme heat is. Yes, coyotes are despicable and I agree with that part of the above statement. Certainly we must save their lives with medical attention if necessary. The best way to prevent this is strong border patrol obviously.

Are the illegal immigrants told before comming across the border the conditions in which they will live. Or are they excaping to what they believe will be better conditions, a better life for themselves and their families...

Are the illegal immigrants told before comming across the border the conditions in which they will live.

You have no idea how bad the conditions are that they are escaping.

The National Guardsmen will doubtless face some hardships. Some will get sick, some will be injured, some may even, through some misfortune, die. Some will lose their jobs at home despite laws aimed at preventing that, some will end up divorced, some may face economic hardships leading to eviction of their family or bankruptcy. But all of that is beside the point.

The point is that for all of the disruption to these peoples lives and for all of the millions and eventually billions this will cost What actual benefit will be gained? What percentage of people crossing the border illegally will be stopped? Given that the length of the border is nearly 2000 miles, even if the addition of NG members allows all 10000 border guards to be out along border in 3 shifts around the clock, that would have them spaced out at about 1 guard for every 0.6 miles, leaving room for many, many, many to get through. And if any are stopped, they may make it through the next time, or the time after that, or the time after that.

The decades long "War On Drugs" has amply shown that attempts at interdiction on such a large scale simply aren't effective. For all the effort and all the expense only a tiny fraction of the flow is stemmed.

Some talking head on Fox probably mentioned that GW Bush or Obama sent National Guard to the border, and a hour or so later, Boom, he blurts forth his proclamation. No investigation of whether the previous deployments of the NG to the border were efficacious or cost effective. No discussion with any of his cabinet or security advisors, not even the head of the Department of Homeland Security, who was blindsided by this. Just random-stray-thought ==> proclamation.

The notion that he "does more thinking about protecting our country and its people than past presidents" is simply laughable. He only ever thinks about himself, about how he can personally gain from his actions, either materially or through aggrandizing himself. He only works at being President from about 11 AM until 3 or 4 in the afternoon Monday through Thursday and the flies off for three day golf weekends at our expense. He can't be bothered to read the "President's Daily Briefing" even after the briefings were slimmed down in length, chopped up into easy-to-digest bullet points, and decorated with lots of graphs and pictures its still too boring and mentally taxing for him to read it. Instead it has to be read and explained to him, and even that is only managed every two or three days. I guess he doesn't understand the word "daily" in the phrase "President's Daily Briefing"

A slogan used by a previous President was "It's about the economy, stupid." An apt one for Trump would be "Its about the stupid, stupid."

The single greatest danger that this country needs protecting from is Trump and his ever-changing, hand-selected, cadre of corrupt, self-serving, inept, criminals who are systematically dismantling our democracy and selling it off bit by bit, wiping their butts on the Constitution and bankrupting the country to bestow largess on their wealthy friends and donors.

Exodus 22:21; Exodus 23:9; Deuteronomy 10:19.

If Trump wants to protect our country, he could start with the gun laws instead of a stupid, expensive wall. But he's smart and knows what his base wants, so that won't happen.

I'm far more concerned about the one-per-week school shooting average this year than undocumented immigrants. Our focus is on entirely the wrong issues. Pandering and fear-mongering instead of actual murderers.

If Trump wants to protect our country, he could start with the gun laws instead of a stupid, expensive wall. But he's smart and knows what his base wants, so that won't happen.

I agree, Chi, except for the "he's smart" part.

"The notion that he "does more thinking about protecting our country and its people than past presidents" is simply laughable. He only ever thinks about himself, about how he can personally gain from his actions, either materially or through aggrandizing himself."

Bravo! Well said. He's in over his head in more ways than one. Thankfully, living in his exhaust will guarantee doom for the Republicans in Congress who haven't pushed back at his nonsense. This November, the House will shift and he will be mostly controlled.

Haha, Alisande, yeah maybe it's a stretch but I do think he knows exactly what his supporters want to hear and he plays to that instead of that many others consider the best interests of the country.

Protect our country? Our entire system is being threatened by interference with our elections. How is Trump protecting us?

Trump is gutting our nation from the inside. He plays Musical Chairs with his own inept appointees, and he's failed to appoint *anyone* to fill hundreds of vital posts -- although I can't think why anyone would want to work for him or his glory-seeking cronies.

BTW, what's the tally of Trump's hours spent away from Washington? I remember the haters-of-black-presidents making that an issue.

WOW! The opinions are very diverse. People who come here illegally, or stay past their end date, are breaking the law. They are criminals. We have locks on the doors to our homes so that uninvited people will not sneak in and make themselves at home. Why is our country any different? We allow people to come here--we welcome immigrants who come here in the proper manner. Some of my dearest friends immigrated here. And, those of us who have been at the Kitchen Table for many years, will attest to the fact that our dearly departed Marlen was unquestionably one of the most patriotic people in the country--and she was an immigrant.

My father lives in one of the richest counties in the US (where I spent the first 46 years of my life). Hispanics, many of whom are illegal, have taken over the county. If he visits the hospital emergency room, he has to wait for 8-10 hours to be seen, and about 90% of the people there are Hispanics...most of whom are on Medicaid. When he visits the grocery store, the customers are largely Hispanics, paying with food stamps. The school system in his county (which, at one time, was the second-best in the nation) is terrible. A large number of drivers have no license and no insurance. MS-13 gang activity is steadily increasing, and drugs are everywhere. The illegals rent homes, and then move in other illegals. One house on his street had 16 people living in a 3-bedroom house. The income and property taxes have risen dramatically because of subsidizing the illegals. It's sad and unnecessary.

I support the Second Amendment. Gun violence is terrible, but, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. If you truly believe that gun control will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, I have some wonderful oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. I am in favor of banning assault weapons, because no one, except for law enforcement or the military, needs an automatic weapon.

Since the Sandy Hook school shooting, approximately 300 children have been killed in school shootings. During that same period of time, more than 2,000,000 children have been murdered in what should be the safest place on earth--their mothers' wombs. God help the United Sates of America!

I feel like it's important to distinguish between Hispanic people and undocumented immigrants when talking about strain on a system and "taking over" an area. And if they are using food stamps and Medicare, there's a good chance they are citizens.

And I don't think it's even remotely posssible to compare abortion to a 5 year old experiencing being hunted and gunned down.

Wanda, the same laws that give you the right to choose religious views and where and how to practice them, or to choose not having any at all, give the same rights to everyone else. No one is better or worse on any standard, or is judged, because of such personal decisions they make.

You and everyone else around are welcome to have whatever view you want of abortion. Freedom of thought and freedom of religion apply. Everyone else has those same rights - why do you think you can or should force your views on others? You can't, don't try. Please be as respectful of others and their choices as you would wish them to be of you and yours.

Alas, I don't see the opinions expressed here as terribly diverse, rather they are terribly far apart on the right/left spectrum. Most of us see our country's current political situation as either love it or hate it ... not a mixed bag.

It's a huge, deep cultural divide with such animosity on both sides. Many people don't vote for someone but rather vote against the enemy. Even political threads here devolve into name calling, though it does tend to consistently be more one-sided.

I think it's too far gone to ever be fixed and will just contribute to the decline of the country. I do have some hope for the younger generations to make a change.

Chi any link to those numbers. the one-per-week school shooting average this year than undocumented immigrants. Our focus is on entirely the wrong issues. What are you talking about??

https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/us/school-shootings-sandy-hook-parkland.html

https://cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html

https://theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/14/school-shootings-in-america-2018-how-many-so-far

Some links where I saw those statistics.

As for focusing on the wrong issues, I was talking about how these shootings are being pretty much ignored in terms of policy change or actually helping anything other than offering thoughts and prayers. And it seems ridiculous to me that all of this energy is being spent trying to keep people out of the country than trying to address the very real problem of mass shootings.

Elmer Fudd - why do you accuse someone like Wanda of "forcing her views on people"? She has every much a right to voice her opinion as you do. No one's accusing you of "forcing your views on people". I just don't get the rational of your posts. It's your way or the highway, or you get all up in someone's face. That is the main reason I just read and scroll. Not worth the irritation. Just had to ask why you called out Wanda and no one that has the same opinion as yours.

I worry about the cost of sending all those troops to the border. What is it taking away from the regular service? Another military plane crashed the other day, an old F-16...one of the models that were in use when I was in the Air Force over 3 decades ago. The article I read never said if the pilot survived or not...it was at Nellis in Vegas. I read an article on the same day I read the one about the F-16 crash, about the aging aircraft the military has now and the recent multiple accidents and deaths this year. It said that there is little money for repairs or parts. I know just before I left the Air Force we had over half our jets down (F-16s), waiting for parts from the states for an engine repair. It went on for months and months. I worry about our military, a lot and even more so now that my son will be flying missions in less than 2 years in those aging aircraft.

Elmer, don't make me love you. :-)

That's what all the girls say to me! Then I wake up. Kind words are always appreciated and welcome. And on this forum coming in my direction, rare.

Wanda is still not forcing her beliefs on anyone. She's simply stating them. But since they differ from yours, they are wrong and inappropriate. Oh well, life goes on.

I respect the views of anyone who respects mine. This is a topic where one side (and one side only) consistently throws out their part of mutual respect and speaks disrespectfully of those with a different view. As did the comment I responded to.

No news to you. Are you yourself tolerant of those with a view different from your own?

Just a few thoughts to share.

Sending NG to border is another rash distraction by the huckster in the WH. He is all id, no intellect, no reasoned, informed action.

I suspect that a lot more illegals come through the border crossing at those large ports of entry. There are better answers and they involve careful consideration of facts versus just hind brain appeal to uneducated, reactive fools.

And understand that the immature, undisciplined moron in the WH does not even think about this, or come close to formulating any policies. Research his alt-right quasi nazi advisor, Stephen Miller. He bends trump's ear.

To ~drew mega~ in Florida complaining of the illegals and Spanish speaking flooding into your state, requiring classes in Spanish. Are you sure you're referring to illegals? Mexicans? Might you be confusing these people with Puerto Ricans (who are American citizens)?

If they are Puerto Ricans they may be here because their island was devastated by a hurricane back in the fall and the federal government has done nearly nothing except to try to throw a $300 million no-bid contract to an unqualified and inept company in Montana owned by a neighbor of the Secretary of the Interior.

Now months later still much of the island is without power. I wonder it the county wanda talks about is in Florida and whether it might be displaced Puerto Ricans (AKA US citizens) her father is seeing everywhere.

-------------------------------------------------

Edited to change "country" to "island" in the first sentence, because, of course, it is a part of the United States, and its residents are US citizens.

ETA I wrote a response to a now deleted or removed by houzz rant about Hispanic people. Since mine no longer made sense without the original post here, I'm deleting mine, also.

Petalique, I'm glad you mentioned Stephen Miller. I heard him speak only once, and thought I was listening to a Nazi. He never appears anymore on the news broadcasts I watch (mostly NBC), and I know some people aren't aware that he exists. But at the age of 31 he was given his own office in the West Wing, and he has the president's ear. They are firmly connected, and much of what we hear Trump say came from Stephen Miller.

I read up on him last year, and learned he was seen as a freakish pro-violence Islamophobe in high school, and hasn't changed much since then. He's a rabid extremist who shouldn't be anywhere near the White House. But he's there, and he's a huge influence.

Wanda, I just want to clarify that although the Fox talkers and radio talkers would like people to believe Democrats are trying to take away everyone's guns, it's not true. The focus is on limiting gun purchases to mature (as in age 21), stable (as in not mentally ill) people.

An interesting point. More of the same, substitute for "white" a word like Italian-, or English-, or German-American.

I agree, Olychick. That was a very anti-Hispanic comment. She wasn't talking about just undocumented immigrants but *all* Hispanics taking over and making life less convenient for rich white people.

I have relatives with similar viewpoints and they would never consider themselves racist because they believe these types of statements are true and just a fact, ignoring the wild profiling, generalizations and stereotypes of an entire population.

As an aside, I really hate when people are called "illegals." It's so de-humanizing, and inaccurate. We use that term specifically for immigrants. If we were being consistent, anyone who drives over the speed limit, parks in a no-parking zone or jaywalks should also be called an illegal.

Thanks, bob_cville. I had intended to include much of what you said. ^^^ The trump administration also did some legal things to make life even more difficult for these Americans trying to recover from the devastating hurricane. The residents of PR also faced a barrage of mean spirited ignorant ridicule. Some people said wrongly that they were not helping themselves. Photos of the enormous devastation depict otherwise. People were pulling together and using chainsaws to help remove downed trees, helping to cook meals, and doing whatever they could. They were criticized for not moving donated materials from the docks or airfields, but so many of the roads were out, without electricity it was difficult to obtain gasoline or to even communicate. This was an enormous, longstanding problem. The amount of ignorant, loud-mouthed condemnation was appalling. Then we have the immitation leader of the free world giving some glib, simplistic and condescending drivel as he jokingly (?) tossed paper towels into a selected audience. His spotlighted shallow gestures and babble were insulting beyond words.

Thank goodness there were people of character and substance who came forth with earnest caring, compassion and rolled up sleeves. Chef Jose Adreas was one. Now THAT is LEADERSHIP!

“If they are Puerto Ricans they may be here because their country was devastated by a hurricane back in the fall and the federal government has done nearly nothing except to try to throw a $300 million no-bid contract to an unqualified and inept company in Montana owned by a neighbor of the Secretary of the Interior.”

Bob, I couldn’t find what you were responding to when you posted this, but I assume you are responding to someone. However just to clarify, Puerto Rico is a Territory of the United States so there is really no their country vs. ours. Sadly, they are not represented in congress the way they should be, and frumpy is treating them like they are second or even third class citizens but they are also Americans and have every right to be here which a lot of people don’t seem to know. They also should have had the same type of emergency response people here in the states received.

****

I think a lot of how someone feels about the illegal immigrants coming into this country is fairly dependent on where one lives. I realize that there are jobs that the illegal Mexicans do that no one else would want to, but one would also have to have blinders on to believe that illegal immigrants are not a drain on our resources as well.

Our schools do not turn children away but as the DACA program has proven, there are lots of children (many of whom do not yet know English) in our schools. Our tax dollars teach them English and provide their education.

Many illegal immigrants use fake or stolen social security numbers so they can pay taxes and so on too. Prior to recent years, that’s how they would pass off as legal. Yes we get that tax revenue, but the wages are small, so that tax amount is limited; plus under those circumstances that is another law that is being broken.

My car has been hit several times by people who were unable to speak English, were uninsured and it was easy to assume that they were not here legally. Driving while uninsured is another law broken.

Emergency rooms do see a high number of illegal immigrants because immigrants don’t have the monetary resourses to be insured. There’s no routine preventative care, no birth control and lots of babies which equals lots of unpaid hospital bills.

Then there are the millions and millions of dollars crossing the border to support those families who stay behind. As a society, we are all expected to obey the laws we have in place and so should they.

These are all facts.

But...I get the poverty, and why they come here too. I lived it and know first hand how bad it is. When I was 17 I lived on a remote ranch in a small mud house built by hand, 100 miles outside of Zacatacus. I washed clothes in a river, traveled by horse and cooked our own grown food on a metal tin over a fire. I was there for almost a year and it’s a hard life.

We have immigration laws to provide a balance that helps this country to prosper and stay strong. When someone comes here illegally, they are breaking the law. To have a blind eye to that is not fair to those who struggled to come here legally. Both may have something to offer to our society but only one has respected our laws.

DACA IMO is separate from illegal immigration and resinding it is just plain wrong. As Tim Cook so eloquently put it, “DACA isn’t a political issue, it’s a moral issue”. We, as a country put DACA into motion, made a promise. To break that promise and use the information those people gave to us to kick them out is extremely dishonorable and embarrassing. It’s not who we are.

I don't remember reading a post like this when G.W. or Obama sent the National Guard to protect the border. I find it amusing . Like it or not, DJT is our president for the next three years, at least. I advise you all to cool it and get on with your lives. You're not going to change a thing by alienting your friends at the table. :-)))

Well, my life hasn't stopped while participating in this thread, don't worry!

As for alienating friends, I like seeing people's true colors come out. These types of posts teach me a lot about fellow KTers, especially the ones who have had their posts removed. I don't mind when someone disagrees but there are ways to do it kindly and respectfully, and I don't care to interact with those who can't, or won't, be civil so it's no big loss.

We've lost 2 more soldiers in a military crash: http://www.lex18.com/story/37902392/2-soldiers-killed-in-copter-crash-at-fort-campbell

Bear in mind I had three glasses of wine when I posted, and I don't drink! Don't usually engage in these posts at all. :-)))