The best article I've read on LRV (Light Reflectance Value)
Jen K (7b, 8a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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mark1993
6 years agoDebbie Downer
6 years agoRelated Discussions
Krylon paint reflective values
Comments (13)Unfortunately as we are all well aware, there is theory and there is practice. I didn't want to muck this up with details LOL more than I already did. When I mention 90% reflectivity for the best white paints and kitchen aluminum foil, that's theory. That 10% of conductive heat that comes in from the the aluminum foil that bothers me is thus also theory. Let's talk mylar and foil and departures from theory since that discussion is now necessary to compare the two. In practice, the aluminum is probably providing only about 70% reflectivity and 30% of the heat is going in. Aluminium deposited on mylar new also gives about 90% radiant reflectivity in the best case too. On the surface it would seem a builder's option. First, Grizz you are talking about quality space blankets. This is not really quality, but considering economics it might scrape by: HD Medical Space Blanket Many of the cheap Chinese mfgrd space blankets are quite transparent although they don't appear so from a distance. Aside: Perhaps double layering will work, the outher layer will take the brunt of UV and random tear damage and could be glued only along the bottom which would effectively add airspace between them. Or for that matter the bottom layer could be foil or paint. The mylar will last about three months in the bright sun before it starts yellowing significantly. This is why I have been looking for info on whether anyone has used a UV protective clear coat hard shell finish on top - would likely solve the problem. Aluminum foil on the other hand until damaged will continue to block light completely... although polished 90% aluminum very quiclkly formas a microscopic oxide layer which cuts this to about 80%, and then it can corrode usually into a white, not very reflective oxide which is only 1/7 as heat conductive as aluminum. As far as conductive values (not speaking of reflection for anyone else following this) of mylar in just single layer, it is 1/4 as conductive as PVC but twice as much as air. It still suffers from the same problem as the aluminum in alumimum foil from the reflective surface (put for us on the outside instead of using like a space blanket to keep heat in where it faces inside) in that the aluminum will heat up and conduct the same for all the energy that goes unreflected. Where mylar beats that though is that the incredibly fine layer has no foil backing to pass the heat since the same radiance is hitting it, there is very little capacity to hold heat for transfer which is a slower process, the deposited Al simply reaches temperature quicker and transfers it out more quickly. It would be a ratio of 2/3 of the non-reflected head going into the pipe and 1/3 going into the air but the chemical microthin deposition will dump the heat back out in the convective air currently much more quickly. On a microscopic level what is happening is say the mylar goes up say 10 degrees and even though the plastic backing interface feels this, the actual heat flow is stymied because you get an even gradient on the plastic side while on the air side the full 10 degree difference is maintained (heat flow rate is in direct proportion to the temperature difference, so conductivity is obviously not the only thing to consider in a microscopic deposited layer like this). In summary the mylar plastic will suck up 2 X the heat in dead still air (=1X) (Vs thicker foil which does 7 X), but the slightest infinitesimal breeze will double or triple the interface temperature difference between aluminum and air vs. what is being experience on the plastic side. Having triple the temperature difference in this example will triple the heat flow into the air. A good point to remember was your advice to Rio when he suggested using Heavy duty foil, and you said for yourself the cheapest stuff was best. You also have the same physics supporting you. HD Al would significantly add to the internal temperature of the pipes as in full metal jacket. Imagine the temp if the channels were made from aluminum with a PE liner... Here, I could cook eggs on them in Summer. I mentioned all the above to sort of show IMO how it will be hard to get hard numbers to compare for these reasons. However it is absolutely clear from this that new mylar will cut down the transmitted heat by a factor of anything from 1/3 of foil to for our purposes all of it. 3-month old mylar ... I have the suspicion that as we reupolster we will be wondering why we didn't KIS with the foil. That's why I think a two layer mylar with a sacrificial exterior might help. Clearly there are engineering issues with all of these things but until someone actually has done a little enthusiastic tinkering I think that is about as far a ledge I can walk out on ! Aluminum is not without its problems. By the time it is well broken in (but not torn up), that 30% turns completely into heat, so this is the drawback of aging foil cald channels. The mylar will drop down to 70% or even less, for argument's sake as well. There is no clear winner unless you don't like having to do frequent reupholstering. This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 16:47...See MoreI've Got The Yell-ows!
Comments (18)Wow, bbtx, you must've read my mind--I was looking at colors like that yesterday! Last night I looked at the orange-y antique in question and realized the finish is truly an awful color: orange pine with a biloous green cast. I've had it since my grandmother died, it was made in the 1850's or so by a cabinet maker relative. It hasn't been refinished since about 1970 when my mom stripped it. G-ma fthought it looked "naked" and painted the top & front panels with OX BLOOD MILK PAINT (her own recipe) to "brighten it up." Now, I adored my G-ma, and have lugged this heavy piece of furnitue aall over the country for years in a twisted form of ancestral worship because mother told me it's a family piece and selling or painting a family piece will earn me a lightening bolt from heaven. And I'm just now thinking "Wait--WHAT??" I'm talked to my older sister last night and SHE'S like "OMG, you took that seriously?" Long story short, (sorry!) aforementioned sister is visiting this weekend and we're going to examine options re: cleaning/refinishing/refinishing or painting this piece so it plays nicely with others an doesn't restrict my decor choices quite so much!...See MoreSome questions on LRV
Comments (9)My question is how can it be used as a tool for flow throughout house? Flow throughout a whole house probably not so much. Because it's key to partner nuance of a paint color with inherent light sources. LRV is a key factor of nuance and you can only work inherent light sources of a space, the quality and quantity of light, one room at a time. The other part of color that *makes up* nuance is saturation. LRV + Saturation = Nuance. LRV is how light or dark. Saturation is how vivid or dull. There's actually a designer with a YouTube video about LRV. She speaks to using a set range of LRV, a formula she devised involving simple point spread, in order to guarantee the *right amount* of contrast and whatnot. The math that makes LRV a useful piece of data doesn't work that way. Formulas for LRV are about the light/dark relationship between two (sometimes more) colors and striking the right degree of contrast and/or illumination for purposes of visual ergonomics and lighting design, energy efficiency. Visual ergonomics and lighting design/efficiency are detailed goals of color design specification that utilize LRV and those goals don't necessarily have anything to do with creating harmonious, aesthetically pleasing color schemes. Rather it is about function first per the numbers and aesthetics a second, separate issue. Using a simple point spread of like 20 to 30 LRV points between two colors won't work the way she's saying it will because you can't just consider LRV, just one part of nuance. "Flow" throughout an interior or exterior is about creating a harmonious, aesthetically pleasing color scheme and in order to do that you must, among other things, consider both LRV and saturation a.k.a. nuance. Should one try to keep the values within the same range? It depends. Keeping paint colors for an entire house within a tight range of light/dark value is a choice. All lighter colors, all mid-range colors, all darker colors is more about individual color tolerances than anything else. And although it's a very popular piece of color advice found in interior decorating world, it's totally subjective. If I'm not mistaken Christopher Lowell is a one designer who likes to keep paint color values consistent. It's not "the key to creating perfect color schemes". It's just one of many ways to approach creating a whole-house wall color palette. And if there is one that is 73 and another that is 78 for example, can one assume these are relatively similar? Yes. LRV of 73 and 78 indicates those two colors are about the same on the lightness/darkness value scale. Regardless of hue or saturation, it paints a picture in your head about where on the lightness/darkness scale you're starting from. LRV communicates a lot about a color's characteristic even if you can't see - or remember - the color. LRV is a key data point in two very well-known color systems, Munsell Color Tree and the Natural Color System (NCS). NCS is used for specifying color across industries, including paint colors, internationally. Additionally, Dunn Edwards Paints includes the Munsell notation for its entire palette located on the fandeck index. AkzoNobel which used to be ICI/Dulux also includes LRV in its custom color notation system. I assume the smaller the room the higher the value,etc. Wouldn't necessarily assume that. You can use LRV as a benchmark when choosing paint colors. Benchmarks suited to your color tolerance, preferences, etc. It may be that by paying attention to LRV through your process of choosing paint colors you discover that you do prefer higher LRV, lighter paint colors, in smaller rooms. Or maybe not....See MoreNow I've truly heard it all...
Comments (51)My old kitchen has one circuit for everything but the stove and lighting. You cant run the microwave if the crockpot is on, the dishwasher is on, and the fridge is running. I have to prep with my back to the stove. The cabinets are falling off the walls. The stove is right against a cabinet side. You cant open the oven and dishwasher at the same time. There is one sink. It is only 27"wide. I feel nothing but glee at the prospect of my addition. We paid hundreds of thousands less for this house than the going rate because of this stupid kitchen. Fixing it is a long time coming! I am trying to be careful enough about my choices that in 20'years, I will need to do no more than replace the cabinet fronts and maybe countertop if it's dated. If I get the layout right, that will be the case. :) But I'm choosing cabinets that look a lot like the originals. So hopefully not even that! I am the only one in my circle who keeps cars forever. I don't like them. I got super advanced safety features when I got mine. When I have to get another, I'll do it again. But I've had housekeepers with much nicer cars than mine. :)...See MoreJen K (7b, 8a)
6 years agoJen K (7b, 8a)
6 years agoLori A. Sawaya
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoLori A. Sawaya
6 years agoLori A. Sawaya
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6 years agoLori A. Sawaya
6 years agoJen K (7b, 8a)
6 years agoJuliet Docherty
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6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoLori A. Sawaya
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6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoDebbie Downer
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