Last winter, I boiled a cup of water, dropped the seeds in and then soaked them for 24-36 hours. I then sowed them in plastic containers with 4''-5'' of moistened seedling mix & vermiculite. I then placed them on the front porch - I did several containers from 3rd week of January thru 1st week of February. Germination occurred around late April - early May in all containers. Not sure of the exact germination rate, but certainly over 50%. After potting up a couple of times they were planted in the ground July-August. Ended up with 12-15 plants (could have had many more if needed). First years growth finished between 6'' - 10'' in height. Two years ago, only winter sowed 1 container and soaked the seeds just overnight - no seeds germinated.

I think the whole problem here is that we are trying to compare apples to oranges. HT's and Shrub roses are two different classes for a reason. If you are expecting HTs to grow and bloom in the same manner as Shrub roses then you surely will be disappointed. Same is true the other way around. If you are expecting Shrub roses to give you the large beautifully formed blooms of an HT you'll be disappointed too. You can not compare them to each other. That's unfair to both classes. In my experience if you try to even compare one HT against another you come up perplexed. EVERY variety of rose is DIFFERENT. They each have their own habits and no two are alike. You need to just enjoy and appreciate each one for it's own unique characteristics.

Virginia - in answer to your questions, I've enabled all my neighbors on each side of me and behind to try roses, and convinced them that roses aren't that hard to grow. For the most part, I did this with the more reliable shrub roses, since one neighbor in particular had been convinced that roses had to be obsessively sprayed and fussed over all summer. The ease of shrub roses have convinced them that roses can be easy care plants. For Francis Dubreuil, most folks recommend this one for part shade locations regardless of zone to maintain the deep colors and the purple tones. Mine is in part shade and it doesn't seem to affect the winter hardiness. As for Ingrid Bergman, I love the dark red of this one but I'm on 2 or 3 tries to overwinter this one, and I think it's going to be one of those "cold wimps" that are truly zone 7 rather than only reported as such. Cynthia

This didn't turn out to be a very good photo - I had trouble with focus because of the various heights. The anise hyssop and, especially, the Korean mint are the big guys. That surprised me somewhat since I was anticipating crowding from the catnip and the lemon balm (completely hidden in the photo). Anyway, I'm sitting here after about 2 1/2 months of growing these babies (& taking the pix below) enjoying my first of what I hope to be many cups of tea. The lemon balm, even tho' it only contributed 1 leaf comes thru brightly. I'm leaning on the Korean mint and anise hyssop and took a sprig off the top of each  a leaf or 2 of the others. This herb combo is heavy on the licorice flavor and that is just as I'd wished. I've only had experience with catnip (& I can't think how to define its flavor) and lemon balm in the past altho' I've also grown anise hyssop. The fragrance includes the lemon balm but the aftertaste belongs to the licorice flavored herbs  very pleasing, just wonderful! Still hoping to grow the group together but think it more likely that they will go in the open ground rather than a larger container. They must learn to "play nice" or I'll need to separate the plants and that will take away some of the fun for me. But, I don't want to put too much stress on the plants as they are becoming established. Just have to wait and see. Steve