To Shift or To Chip That is the Question or Pine Bark Saga or 511 Prep
Alanna Migliacci
6 years ago
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sunshine (zone 6a, Ontario,Canada)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
6 years agoRelated Discussions
Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See MoreMore Questions re. Al's Mixes (substitutions & fertilization)
Comments (47)You may be assigning to perlite that which is probably more rightly attributed to gravity. I'll explain. Even if there was a consistent volume of perlite mixed evenly into the soil from top of pot to bottom, it wouldn't have much impact on either the drainage (flow through) rate, how much air the soil holds, or the height of the perched water table. If you mix perlite into pudding, it doesn't increase aeration, drainage, or the ht of the PWT because the pudding simply surrounds the perlite and by doing so, rods of of any significant value UNTIL the perlite becomes a very significant fraction of the soil. Pudding + 15% perlite yields a medium with virtually all the physical characteristics of pudding, but perlite + 15% pudding is a different story. In your case, when using the heavy medium, the soggy layer at the bottom of the pot would have been there anyway, but that's because gravity dictates that the water moves down in the pot until the capillary attraction of the soil is exactly as strong as the pull of gravity. The perlite, in smaller volumes, can't change that balance, but it does take up some space that would otherwise be occupied by water, so it reduces the o/a water retention of the soil without significantly increasing aeration or the ht of the PWT. When using soils that don't support significant volumes of perched water, you get a much more even colonization of the soil by roots. Since the entire medium is well-aerated, you don't get the roots running round and round the inside pot wall looking for (growing only where there is ample) air, though roots will start circling if the planting is left to go badly root bound. Al...See Morein search of the MIX!
Comments (76)I am planning on sifting it through 1/8" hardware cloth as soon as I find some.I'm also looking to find some 3/8" hardware cloth any ideas where I can find some. I haven't even been able to find an online source. Does anyone know if that red dust is common? The bag of grit only cost $11 for 50#'s and the lady said they keep it in stock so hopefully I want have to search around anymore. I also have a BWI supply about 15 miles from my home and didn't even know it they ordered me my turface mvp and it only cost me $10.80 for 50#'s. I feel kinda lucky to have found everything as easy as I did,considering so many people have such a hard time....See MorePortulacaria afra in nothing but pumice (or turface, or...?)
Comments (35)I noticed some wrinkling starting on the leaves of one and just went ahead and watered them all. Each stem is in it's own 4" nursery pot (the kind with lots of good-sized holes on the bottom)s i had been putting the pots on various saucers to catch the water that came out of the bottom, but to try to clean up the area I put down a double layer of bounty paper towels and transferred them to that. To my surprise, the paper towel began sucking what seemed like an awful lot of water out of the pots. Since they had stopped drop-draining a while ago I assumed they were pretty fully drained but the paper towel told a different story. So now my question is, should I keep putting the containers on a paper towel or is this pulling too much water out of the soil too quickly?...See More
Alanna Migliacci
6 years agoI was considering something like this:
3,6,9,12mm equals about 1/10, 1/4, 1/3, 1/3ish. Right as nice as something I’d make myself, but easy and less expensive.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
6 years ago
Laura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoLaura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoAlanna Migliacci
6 years agoLaura LaRosa (7b)
6 years agoAlanna Migliacci
6 years ago
Monyet
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
PacNorWreck
6 years ago
Kelley_GA8a
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoAlanna, I purchased soil conditioner (pine bark) from Lowes for$3.67 a 2 cubic feet bag. It requires a lot of sifting, but it’s cheap and I like the size of the particles, but I believe they are a bit smaller than Reptibark so I added 2 parts perlite and half peat. A bag and a half worked for 4 12” pots, 2 16” pots, and 10 6” pots.
Alanna Migliacci
6 years agoThe wood chipper works! The size looks pretty too me, but I’ve never done this before. I just used some branches in my yard and not bark to test it. I’ll still need to sift the bigger pieces out, I think. What do you guys think?
Alanna Migliacci
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoKelley_GA8a
6 years agoAlanna Migliacci
6 years agoMonyet
6 years agoAlanna Migliacci
6 years agoAlanna Migliacci
6 years ago
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Vladimir (Zone 5b Massachusetts)