Tropicalia---Thanks for posting that link. I have seen those purple bags of pine mulch at that Walmart. I agree with Mango Kush. I was thinking that they're too big and they are shredded pieces instead of small chunks.

Where are you located? Coral Springs? Coconut Creek?

I am between Lyons and Powerline off of Hillsboro Blvd.

I am not sure but if Pine Bark Fines is what was written in the bags I bought at Bushel so the wallmart bag looks exactly the same(size and everything)even if did not say bark fines. Well this is not so easy as I initially thought. :) I have the screen to shift some big chunks out. I will mix some for the 5-1-1.
Marinfla welcome. yes I am just a minute away from the store :) very close to you.
Mango I think for the 5-1-1 can be a little bigger than 1/4 and the 1-1-1 mix is the one that needs to be 1/4
Guys if I am not back here before 2011 I wish you an wonderful new year, full of health for you and your plants!
I am taking my son to the Ice show in Orlando and also will celebrate my Birthday, as soon I am back in Town will check here. hugs

I Checked. The bushel bag is Bark fines and the wallmart stuff I have is the same exactly size.

For what its worth...I found Pine Bark Fines at Walmart for
$2.68/bag.

This is what the bag from Walmart looks like...this is after its sifted to remove the fine dust.
{{gwi:53458}}

Sorry I didn't think to take a picture of the bag it came in before I threw it out.

Mango Kush, that's my picture you posted above, that's what I've used when I can't get the cherry stone or the crushed granite...it is 6/14. I get it in a masonry store in Haines City for $6 something for a 50 lb. bag

Topicalia - Sorry - I just remembered this thread. We can't tell if a product is appropriate by looking at the bag unless someone with some experience using it is pretty intimately experienced with it can offer some insight.

Basically, you're looking for something like Nancy showed you above. If you look at this picture:

{{gwi:2389}}

any of the products (except what's in the middle - that's what the 5:1:1 mix looks like when dry) are ok for the gritty (1:1:1) mix. The products at 3,6,and 9 are pine bark from different sources and can be used as is for the 5:1:1 mix, or can be screened and used in the gritty mix. The product at the top is fir bark, and comes pre-screened .... just like that, right out of the bag - perfect for the gritty mix, but too coarse for the 5:1:1 mix.

Does that help?

Here are two pics of the gritty mixes I might use - one with pine bark, the other with fir:

pine
{{gwi:4806}}

fir
{{gwi:1295}}

Al

Im going to pick up some #10 filter gravel today.

basil, cilantro, and oregano

citrus

kumquat

dancy tangerine

calamondin

cherry of (the) rio grande

Barbados cherry on the right
(thats a gold nugget loquat i picked up recently)

Mango kush, your mix looks great and so do the plants. I'm sure your plants will love it in that mix. Thanks for the great pictures!

Excellent work! I agree with Pug! ;)

Josh

I'm trying to read and learn about Al's mixes, but WOW! there is a lot to read. I was wondering between the two mixes the regular gritty mix and the 5-1-1 which would be better for tropical fruit trees. I have some dragon fruit cuttings on the way and I am ordering some mango and star fruit tree's. Thanks

I personally prefer the Gritty Mix...simply because its last for several years as opposed to the 5-1-1 mix which doesn't last as long. Its just a personal preference really. I'm for anything that requires less work especially when it comes to repotting the bigger pots which is why I prefer the longer lasting gritty mix.

Thanks Pug I guess I will start the task of trying to find everything to get going. It seems like the small 1/8-3/8 pine or fir bark is hard to find, along with the crushed granite. Seems like the Turface is the easiest to find. Where would someone begin to look for gypsum,and what exactly is it used for. Would the gritty mix work to start my dragon fruit cutting.

gritty mix is perfect for dragonfruit as it will allow the cutting to root instead of rot which it may do in a more compacted mix.

gypsum can be found next to lime, its sometimes sold as a soil-acidifier but if you look at the ingridients its gypsum.

any large nursery or landscaping company should have bark fines, mine was labeled as a soil conditioner.

gran-i-grit or crushed granite can be replaced with filter gravel sometimes found at pool supply stores or turkey grit in feed stores.

I started my scavenger hunt today for some of the various items for the gritty and 5:1:1 mixes. So far for the gritty mix I got the turface mvp, espoma organic garden gypsum, and gran-I-grit(grower size). And for the 511 I got a bag of miracle grow perlite, and majestic earth organic sphagnum peat moss. I wasn't sure which type of lime to get do I want the powdered type or the granule.
I also found a nursery supplier that chips pine bark. They have three sizes fine,medium, and course. I stopped by and took a look and the fine is very small like some of the pics posted. It's only sold in bulk so the guy said I could get a yard of bark for $20. So if anyone has any advice or comments on some of the things I have listed please feel free to educate me. Thanks, Ray

nice, I cant find granite here, apparently they substitute crushed limestone here for everything, which cant be used;

use gypsum, not lime. gypsum is calcium. lime is calcium and magnesium (both trace minerals not in fertilizer). The problem with lime is it lowers the acidity (raises the ph)of the soil. so use gypsum for calcium and a pinch of epsom salt every now and again in the water for magnesium

the bark you need is fine, bark fines. should be from 1/4 to 1/8 inch.

I thought I seen on one of the dozens of post I read that part of the ingredients for the 511 was lime. I will go back and double check. The bark I looked at was nice and fine so I think I will go back and get a yard, since I can't seem to find anything in a bag at Lowes or Home Depot. The only bag I found was something called Repti Bark and man the stuff was pricey.

you may have. you could use lime since there is so much peat or bark fines, it will neutral out the natural acidity of the mix, it depends what you are growing. most fruit trees like soil on the acid side

heres the thread, theyre growing vegetables

heres a picture of what elements are best at what ph level

Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg1221100211739.html?43

REB, you're correct.
Dolomitic Garden Lime is used for the 5-1-1, which starts with a low pH.
The Lime raises the pH and provides Calcium in proper balance to Magnesium.
The Lime phase reaction in the bark-based mix takes anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks
depending on soil moisture/warmth, et cetera. However, there is no harm in mixing
and potting the same day. I use powdered Lime - $6 for 25 pounds.

The Gritty Mix starts with a favorable pH, so you don't want to raise it higher.
That's why the Gypsum is used, although it only provides Calcium. Therefore,
add Epsom Salts to your fertilizing solution (exactly what Mango Kush mentioned).

Josh

SOooo Happy to be back. I was missing this place so bad! :)
OK here are the news. Pug the one I have(bark) is the same one you have. So I mixed(5-1-1) today, a bunch! like 30 gallons. I needed to screen the coarse perlite, too much dust in it, Tomorrow I will mix more 5-1-1. Still could not find the grit for the 1-1-1 though. I think I will show you guys a pic soon before I put the plants in. I think I am ready to go, also added the lime as explained by our Al/soil master here.
Mango Kush your plants looks great and I see that you also could not find that crushed granite, I don't understand this, is this a Fl discrimination or something, hum??? We need this here too! where did you get the gravel?
Thank you all for replying with the details. I am listening and learning (I hope!) :) Hope to not kill my plants.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I have a silly question,but what do you guys store your unused mix in?

containers. I use it up by the bag though

There really isnt a right and wrong mix, Its relative to what you are growing. Ive been using a similar mix (maybe 3-3-1)for my blueberries and miracle fruit. I do not use lime on either of these acid loving plants

REB...I've heard people using large 40-50 gallon garbage cans. I use the old large black nursery pots that's left after I repot. I don't mix too much at one time. Usually just enough for what I need...whatever is left I store in the garage in whatever empty containers I have laying around.

Also using a wheelbarrow is great for mixing all the ingredients together...you can really mix everything up using a small shovel or your hands. Better yet, place a large plastic on top of the wheelbarrow and use that to mix everything and it makes it easier to pour it into containers. Good luck!

I am going to mix some 5:1:1 today since I have to wait until Monday to pick up my Turface MVP. Kush do you think I should add the lime to my 511 mix for dragon fruit cuttings. Sorry to ask so many questions I am a novice at this I value the help and information I get here from you guys and gals(pug)

I wouldnt personally, cactus are acid lovers. I wouldnt lose sleep over it though, dragonfruit generally grow air roots and dont rely on the soil much for nutrients, the most important thing is making sure they dont rot and get watered.

I live in Arkansas right now and here turface and granit grit is readaly available. I just pick some up yesterday. 50 lbs bags of both of them at $8.63 for granit and 14.60 for the turface. The Wholesaler with the name of B.W.I in springfield Missouri go nation wide and sell this stuff to nurseries and farm feed stores. B.W.I.com on the internet.

Bob, I went to their website but couldn't find the listing for crushed granite, would you mind telling me exactly what its called and where its listed. I can't find crushed granite here larger than 5 lb bags...wonder if they have a retail outlet that carries their products here in my area? I might drop them an email...hate to pay the shipping for 50 lbs, I'm sure shipping will cost more than the product itself,lol...

I've been using Silica Sand #14...but would like to find the large bags of crushed granite locally. Absolutely hate to pay for shipping unless its necessary.

Thanks

Pug, Where do you find your silica sand?

Hi Reb, I've gotten mine in Haines City, FL here's the address and Phone #...Surface Prep Supply

I also attached a link to the company that manufactures it. There's an #800 you can call to see if there's a location close to you. Haines City is about 1.25 hours from me.

This is what I bought 6/14 in 50 lbs bags for around $6.50. Oh they also sell the Turface MVP as well.
{{gwi:54376}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Standard Sand and Silica website

Thanks Pug I was wanting a back-up plan. My local feed store carries grani-grit, they are suppose to have some more in Fri.
I mixed up a small batch of 511 today. I screened everything through 1/4" wire,then I mixed,wet it down and covered it. About how long do I have to wait before I can use it? I left out the lime cause this batch will be used for some dragon fruit cuttings.I also wasn't queit sure which type of CRF to use so I didn't add it either.

I use mine as soon as I mix it...I've also used either Osmocote or Dynamite Fertilizer...they're both slow release and works very well for me. I also use Foliage Pro during the growing season as an added supplement in a third or half strength.

I've used the Red, yellow, green or purple containers...they all work pretty well for me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dynamite Fertilizers (Home Depot)

The feedstore on the bill of sale told me that they get their stuff from B.W.I.Gran,grit is made in North Carolina by the company:North Carolina Granit Company,Mt Airy,N Carolina.This stuff has a very little silica sand in it.

Pug I guess I will need to drive 4 hours to go to your place just to buy it. you have no idea how many people I already called to get this grit thingy. Granite that size here is impossible!
This last pic make me jeaulous! I had no idea I would be jeaulous of grit! lol!

florida silica sand said they may not get in #10 filter gravel again.

Im going to try searching a little more for 1/8 - 1/4 inch turkey grit, pool filter gravel or landscaping gravel in bulk.

to ship a Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box 12" x 12" x 5-1/2" is $14.95, the max weight is 70lbs

Thanks Bob for the picture! I need to email the company to see if they have a retail store that carries it in my area.

Tropicali, you have NO idea how long it took me to find that Silica place. I'm lucky its not that far from me. Wish it was closer though. Good luck!

MK, I'm not sure if the 6/14 is the same as #10? Do you know?
I hope they don't quit making the one I've been getting from them.

#10 gravel is in that first pic. i think its a little larger than 6/14. Its sterile and inert though if its filter media. Im not sure what Im going to use for the next batch

I have been dealing with silica sand for a long time since i was in the stainedglass buissines. It is toxic to breath-in dust and i do not know if the plant takes this stuff-up.

I can't wait to re-pot a bouganvillea tree I have to the 1-1-1. The plant is really begging for a better media but finding this grit is not an easy job. Pug I believe now but in the beggining I thought would be not this hard. :)
I am glad that you found because whatever you are doing/using for your plants is great. They do look nice. I can wait to finish to find this, I bought all the other stuff but I can't mix until I find this last product.
Mango Kush they can't get more for us?

they said they didnt know when they would be getting more. the brand name was vigoro. I may be able to find it through a landscaping company here, im going to try tomorrow.

was that just a sample they had that you posted in the first pic?

I like to make a sugestion on gran-grit. The company that make gran-grit might have an outlet in the southern states including Florida.If all of you got together and make an arrangement to ship to a closer address in Florida and than pick up this large load per Hertz rental truck( one-way). There are so may of you in that close proximaty,and use so much of it.When i got a delivery of stainedglass that usely weigh about 1200 lbs i have it send to my local hardwhere store so that i could use their Forktruck to load on a pick-up truck. How about a shipment of 1500 bags on 15 pallets per shipment? This is just a susgestion.

Persimmon That would be great so all of us could have this precious grit. :)
I would get like ten bags(50lb each).
I would even get extra bags just to keep in the garage for future use.
Mk also want some right?
Pug do you need any?
Let's see if we can get a nice group. who else?

yes. ten bags is alot,i only need 5.

however Im going to try a few other sources for that vigoro gravel. its a golden colored small gravel I guess people use for landscaping.

MK Sorry I forgot to answer you before. Yes that pic is a little sample he got for me that he had in his desk right there.

Well I picked up my Turface MVP today and a bag of some chicken grit. The bag of grit as absolutely no information on it what so ever,just a plan white bag. Here is a couple of pics to see what you guys think. The first pic is straight out of the bag before I rinsed it with water. {{gwi:1337743}} This is after I rinsed it {{gwi:1337744}} So what do you guys think? I haven't screened it yet just rinsed with water

It looks fantastic from where I'm sitting...
A bit of screening should be perfect.

Josh

Looks great from here too Reb! Should be even better after sifting all the dust out.

I am planning on sifting it through 1/8" hardware cloth as soon as I find some.I'm also looking to find some 3/8" hardware cloth any ideas where I can find some. I haven't even been able to find an online source. Does anyone know if that red dust is common? The bag of grit only cost $11 for 50#'s and the lady said they keep it in stock so hopefully I want have to search around anymore. I also have a BWI supply about 15 miles from my home and didn't even know it they ordered me my turface mvp and it only cost me $10.80 for 50#'s. I feel kinda lucky to have found everything as easy as I did,considering so many people have such a hard time.

Hi Reb...here's a link from the Container forum that shows some of the sifters they use. I just use a wire household strainer that I purchased at Target,lol...seems to work fine for me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sifters...

I built some strainers already I have a 1/2",1/4" and insect screen. The reason I was looking for 3/8" is cause Al said the perfect size bark for gritty is the bark that falls through 3/8" but doesn't fall through 1/8". I think I am just going to keep screening my bark through my 1/2" sifter and then sift again through 1/8" once I get the wire and call it good. I think I am trying to over complicate things. Here is a pic of some of my sifted bark This doesnt fall through my 1/4"screen {{gwi:1337745}} This is what falls through my 1/4" screen {{gwi:1337746}}