Sorry, I forgot to say that if anyone wants to read the article that I mention in my previous comment, in the blog (at the top right of each page) there is a button to translate the content to the language that is preferred.

I’m glad to see you back again, Maria! I will have a look at your article when I return home, and can read it on my laptop. It is good to hear from you again. How is your garden doing? Is your Louise Odier doing well? Mine has done very well.I’ll never forget your beautiful garden and the beautiful stonework! I’ll post more after reading your article. Lisa

Just strip the leafs at base and bend the cane to the ground. This usually gives me 2-4 basal shoots for each plant. This method never fails me

Hello Maria ! So nice to hear from you again. I will read your blog this evening. I believe I read to Hill up the base of the rose with compost or well rotted manure and / or mulch will encourage basal breaks. I did this last season with worm castings and was very pleased with my results. Have a wonderful day!

Direct sun on or on top of the graft will help. So strip those bottom leaves and rake away the mulch/dirt.

Lisa Adam:

I am also very happy to be here again. I have undergone changes in my personal life that have kept me away from this Group but again I am here with my obnoxious Google translator, writing as badly as ever in English. I promise that I make every effort to make myself understood but I imagine that you will have a lot of work to understand me.

My garden is now still paused. Beginning to open the buds of the roses. Some already have small leaves formed. We have a very cold month with lots of rain. They were very necessary here in Spain. All the land was very dry and the Spanish marshes were under minimum. So we appreciate this blessed rain.

I'm pruning roses, fruit trees and some bushes and ... well, getting ready to start the season very soon.

Thank you for your kind words towards my garden. A big hug!!

lxxfcp

I'm not sure my translator is doing his job well. When it says to throw the leaves, it refers to "removing" the leaves or pulling (grabbing) the leaves and lowering the end of the branch towards the ground. Do you propose that you come with the end of this branch to touch the ground? Would you say that doing so could put at risk the fact that the sap has circulation problems when the end is lower than the central part where it curves?

I know that the horizontality of the branches favors the emission of lateral stems but I am not sure that by placing horizontal a branch produces stems that are born from the base. I'm not interested in laterals, what I wanted was to encourage some roses to emit stems from the roots, from below the ground. I thank you very much for your proposal.

Gardengal48

Gardengal, in fact, as I mention in the article of my blog, I have done tests and without wanting to make generalizations, in my particular case, the salts of epsom have not had any effect in the emission of basal shoots.

My roses in general produce these shoots because they come from the roots where they grow (the grafting point is planted) and this favors this emission much more than when they are grafted. In fact it is difficult for a rose grafted and planted with its knot above the ground level to emit stems from the part just above the knot.

You are right, the salts of epsom are not more than a contribution of magnesium and will come well if the soil is lacking it. Here in Spain very few gardeners do analysis of their soil. Also, let's be honest, if we took things to the extreme, we should analyze the soil every time we incorporate any fertilizer. Otherwise we are providing nutrients that we do not know if our soil needs. On the other hand, reality shows that we fertilize our soil without these previous analyzes of it.

I think that adding "preventively" something (very moderately) of magnesium, just as we added NPK, it is possible that it does not harm and that being such easily soluble in water as are the salts of epsom, there are no problems of burning the roots. As a counterpart we will know that at least, if our roses need magnesium, they will have it available.

But in fact, I am convinced that the Epsom salts are not effective for the emission of basal shoots (that is why in the title of my question I ask for a system that is not the application of salts)

Lilyfich

I'm happy to hear from you again !! Thank you for your interest in reading my article. I incorporate dung well mature on the soil of all my plantations twice a year. On this manure I put a generous layer of mulch (wood bark) mushroom way I preserve the soil of the very high temperatures that occur in my garden in summer and also protect it from the cold in winter.

The truth is that I have found that throughout these four years and a little more that I have been cultivating my garden, my roses have started to emit small rootlets in the area above the rootstock and I am sure that finally they will end up growing on their own estate. This fact I think explains why most of them have basal outbreaks. Despite these techniques, some are a little lazy.

Buford

You mean that you expose the grafting point? I am not saying that your method is not effective but the truth is that with the sunken graft point I am checking during these four years that I have many more basal shoots than when I grew the roses with the exposed knot.

Before I had another garden and planted the roses with the knot at ground level. Therefore, they grew on the roots of the rootstock. Well, planted like that, in my climate, the truth is that they had few basal shoots. On the contrary, planted the other way, most have outbreaks.

But I can try to do what you say in one of them, to see if it works.

Thank you very much everyone for taking the interest to answer. Let's see if we read the opinions of other rose growers. It is always very good to share our experiences. It is not true?

I haven't read replies so I apologize if this is repeated information but I followed advice from this forum ( I think from Chris from New Flora) to cover the base with mulch to keep it moist and applied alfalfa pellets. They responded by sending out new basals.

Good luck!

I don’t have photos myself. Here are some photos from the tutorial I followed in a Chinese rose forum. They keep bending new shoots to boost a band rose to a big shrub in one year. This have to be done with heavy feeding. But you loose the spring flush of that year. There is also a similar Japanese tutorial for hybrid teas, in which they break the stiff cane and bend to the ground.

El, most of my grafts are buried, but you can still allow the heat of the sun to penetrate by removing mulch to expose some of it to the sun. Other's here are saying that mounding soil with alfalfa can encourage new basals. I also use alfalfa in my fertilizer. I have just found that some roses that weren't putting out canes responded to me exposing the top of the graft. Perhaps that works in my zone (7 in north georgia).

Welcome back, Maria!! Your translator is working just fine. Everything you write is easy to understand and so pleasant to read.

I wanted to explain how I add alfalfa (when I use it and this year I will) is to get the pellets from the feed store. They usually come in 50 pound bags here. I get the kind they feed to horses that are alfalfa only, no additional things added. Then I put it on the dirt around the rose and scratch it into the soil. Rabbits love alfalfa, so I protect the roses until the alfalfa is well watered into the dirt. Others may have different ways to do this, but this is what works for me.

I hope all is going better for you and you are able to enjoy your garden.

Rebecca

suncoastflowers

Among the techniques I use to grow my roses is: apply a good layer of mature manure twice a year. On it I put a layer of quilting. So that my roses are planted with the sunken graft point, a portion of the branches is in permanent contact with the ground, and therefore with some humidity. In spite of them, some like Rosa is quite reluctant to emit basal shoots. Anyway I do not complain in general about my roses. The vast majority are sprouting very well from the ground.

lxxfcp(z8b_PugetSound)

I find this photograph very interesting! Will not you have the link to visit that pad?

I see a problem. Let's see, bending the branches in this way means that they must have enough flexibility to tilt them in such a way that they practically touch the ground. Not all varieties are so flexible. Many emit very rigid stems even when young. Doubling them like this can lead to the stems breaking. They do not believe? Undoubtedly climbing roses and rosebush rambler, will have less problem to achieve to adopt that position the branches but the truth is that rambler roses are already very prone to emit basal shoots, which makes it less necessary to encourage them. Do not?

In any case I will certainly try this system in one of my roses. Let's see what results it gives. Thank you very much for your contribution!

Rebecca

Getting many of the organic fertilizers that you see used in the cultivation of your roses here in Spain is tremendously difficult. Here, unfortunately, the gardening can be said to be still "in diapers". I see every day that you, American gardeners, have a level of knowledge that is much higher than the average in my country. Unfortunately!!

The industry moves by the laws of supply / demand. So, since there is no demand for most products, there is no offer. I searched the internet for a company that could sell sacks of alfalfa pellets. The only thing I found are companies dedicated to feeding livestock (horses). The problem is that they sell it but in such large quantities that it is not acceptable for a gardener.

I would love to be able to buy some sacks of 50 liters of pure alfalfa, without other components but I think it will be impossible for me.

I managed to send me bone meal, fish meal, seaweed extract ... all these products I have been forced to ask through web pages to countries outside of mine, which is a great cost of shipping. But as I say, here in Spain, it is impossible to find alfalfa for gardening. I have not even managed to find it in establishments dedicated to pet food (rabbits) ...

Buford_NE_GA_7A(7B)

What you propose is also very interesting. I must admit that I am afraid of removing too much soil from the grafting point of my roses. All my garden started to be created more than four years ago. So everything is very young. I have found that they are emitting small rootlets that come from the variety of the rose bush (not the rootstock) and my aspiration is that my roses grow on their own roots. Hence, removing the earth scares me. I am afraid that by moving it I will break these little roots. But without doubt his proposal is interesting too. Thank you very much!!

Hello again and welcome back!!! If you're not able to find the Alfalfa pellets perhaps you can find alfalfa hay that is often used to feed horses. I just use that as an under mulch and even put some in the planting holes. If you are worried about weed seeds you can make a tea out of it by soaking it in a bucket with water and letting it ferment about 3 days. I then dilute that and use as an elixir every once in awhile. The results have been nothing short of amazing.

Maria,

Here's a thought. Since winter damage to your roses does not happen in Spain, does it really matter that much if your roses make abundant basal breaks from the crown, or if new growth comes up higher on the bush, as laterals or above ground emerging semi-basals?

I would continue your management program as you are doing and let the roses make basals at their own pace.

Moses

Vaporvac:

Unfortunately I only find the products that I mentioned. Nothing related to animal feed. If I find it, as I said before, they are forced to buy such a large amount that it is not acceptable for a gardener.

Moses:

It has all the logic your question. In fact, in my climatological zone, the frosts that are produced are not so deep that they kill the branches of the roses. In fact, even the leaves keep a good part of the winter.

I have two wishes for what he does for roses: On the one hand, they grow up in their own roots. On the other hand, I want shrub broad, wide, very thick. I do not like the roses whose branches leave all of the centrl (graft node) I prefer that the buds leave a fairly wide area of the ground to give rise to a large bush. Anyway, you have to think: more reeds, more roses hahahaha

But also, although it is not yet time to start thinking about the renewal of the shrubs since my garden is young, there will come a time when we will have to cut the old stems and replace them with the new ones. It is always good to have young material to replace the old material. He does not believe?

I don't remember the scientific name for it, but I believe there is a chemical in roses (and other plants) which make the plant to leaf out and grow the most at the highest point of the plant. Apparently if you carve the bark around a cane near the bottom, the chemical can't travel as much to the top and will encourage the plant to send out basals at the bottom instead. I haven't tried this yet, so I can't say if it makes a difference or not.

Hi, Maria! It's too bad that you can't get alfalfa hay in Spain; that does deally work in my experience. Here in Italy it is available as horse fodder; the one I get contains molasses as well as the alfalfa. The bags are big, but then so is my garden...

I agree with you on planting depth; I, too, try to have the graft a bit below soil surface, and this does encourage the plants to grow their own roots. Own root roses supposedly are longer-lived than grafted ones, and send out those coveted basals much more readily.

I just found the link from the Chinese forum. http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4500442612?share=9105&fr=share&unique=92ABD04F4B3423CE3D48ACC9245AD7DC&st=1521482248&client_type=1&client_version=9.3.3&sfc=copy

not sure it can be opened. They put date and record every steps in that year. Very useful information.

I could not find the Japanese blog. Generally they flatten the section of the stiff cane of HTs and bend (like what you see when you bend a straw)

Regardless of whether the bud union is buried or not, if the rose is going to grow basals, it will... One method I know to coach roses to grow new basals is to periodically remove one or more older canes from their base.. In fact some roses, especially some climbers, strongly resist putting out new canes unless some older canes are removed.

Bart:

I do not know if there would be anywhere near my home where they sold horse food and could buy some sack of alfalfa (dry grass cut). I do not know if dry would be effective for this end of the basal shoots. I guess so. But two years ago I put as a padding of the orchard terraces spikes of dry cereal and cut into small pieces. It was terrible, thousands of seeds began to germinate and all the vegetable patches were filled with buds.

I'm afraid to use alfalfa in this format for possible outbreaks.

My desire is to find it in the form of a pellet. And while I find who through the web you could buy, sell in amounts that it is impossible to take even in the case of a very large garden as mine.

lxxfcp:

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to look for the link. Yes, fortunately I was able to open it. But using the Google translator ... ajajjajajajja is amazing, translated into Spanish, you can not understand anything.

By the way, has come into my head what you should read what I write once google translated my Spanish to English jajajajajajja must be horrible to read me. As I have suffered when visiting that page. Thanks anyway. Really thank you very much!!

I keep saying in any case that I think that it is easier to do with very young plants. Otherwise, the rods become very rigid, very woody and I doubt that some of my shrub roses like that resist bending without breaking some reach.

The images of that link are of a climber. In that case, yes, I see it more possible because many climbing roses emit flexible buds.

nikthegreek:

I'm sorry to disagree with you. I am convinced that the grafted roses, take much longer and do so to a lesser extent to emit basal shoots. On the contrary, the fact of burying the knot or graft point, as Bart says, encourages the rosebush to issue its own roots on the rootstock. Having a good sized root ball made up of its own roots undoubtedly facilitates the emission of these basal shoots.

Years ago, when my rosebushes planted with the graft point on ground level or my rosebushes did not emit enough, also they took enough to form basal shoots.

On the contrary, in this garden, where all my roses (about 120/130) are buried their grafting point, most have basal shoots. In addition, these buds appear very early, it is not necessary that the rose be very adult.

Yes, I agree with you that the fact of eliminating the oldest buds encourages the rose to emit new ones from the ground to replace the eliminated one.

In any case, I think it is really important to make things easier for our roses to form a large root ball. A well-fed plant, healthy and with a good root system, will undoubtedly have fewer problems to come to sprout new basal shoots.

Thank you very much everyone for your interesting opinions. I am very happy for your participation.

A good thorough hard pruning will stimulate new growth. Take the older canes down to the ground.

This is a belated response to your thread. I have tried a number of things to encourage basal breaks but the technique was not successful in all cases. Someone clued in me using chicken manure to encourage growth. That's what I did this spring to some of my roses. All of the ones that I gave the chicken manure produce basal breaks while the ones that did not receive the manure did not have any basal breaks. The chicken manure is amazing! For years, I tried to get my Evelyn to produce basal breaks and nothing. It was a one cane wonder every year. This year, it shoots up 3 basal canes after I gave it a shovel full of chicken manure. And the one cane from last year is covered with buds.