1. I'd say get rid of preconceived ideas like: kids only like: spaghetti, pizza, mac and cheese, chicken nuggets. 2.don't feed them processed foods (all the time - like boxed snacks. My daughter ate what we ate - no special foods. She refused to eat baby food! 3. at restaurants, let them order from the main menu, not restricted to those awful "kids' menus.

All kids are different with different tastes and one cannot overlook the look and texture component to food.

I grew up having to eat everything on my plate whether I liked it or not. I my Mom's defense there were 6 of us and not a lot of money so catering to tastes wasn't an option and wasting food was a mortal sin. I refused to do that with my kids .

We had very few food rules for our kids.

One was, you have to try it before you say you don't like it......but kids are smart I never recall either of them telling me they liked it after they tried it. However, they often would take some next time it was served.

My other rule was if you put something on your plate you have to eat it...but if someone else puts it on your plate , without asking you , you don't have to eat it.

While not a rule per se I also did not cater to their likes or dislikes by serving them something different than the rest of us were having. Obviously I always made sure the meal had something for everyone but I sure didn't make two meals !!

To me the best rule is respect their growing palates as you respect the palates of your guests while remembering you have an obligation as a parent to expose then to healthy and varied food choices.

Not always easy but as Partim says don't make it a battle and don't be arbitrary

"ann_t

"Do you want your children to eat everything?

Very simple, keep them hungry.

You can go to youtube and find videos of poor hungry kids finding food in garbage dumps.

dcarch"

Well that wasn't terrible helpful. And abusive."

----------------------

No, don't feed them garbage, and don't starve them.

And don't over -feed them. We have a major childhood obesity problem, 1 out of 3 is more than fat with all kinds of allergies. .

Over -feeding a child to obesity is considered a form of child abuse. There are considerations of making that a crime.

When a child is always full, he/she will be picky with food. I have been to areas where there are no fat kids and no picky eaters either. Food allergies? totally unknown.

dcarch

Being picky with food and being full and not hungry are two different things.

I truly believe, that despite some of our best efforts, kids get the message that they aren't supposed to like vegetables and other healthy foods. Or that only certain processed foods are "fun" (and therefore good). Pay attention to commercials and TV shows -- you will start seeing the theme repeated, whether in an ad for a totally unrelated product (like, the poor mother with kids that are picky is recovering with a nice bath) or for a food product or restaurant. We don't see it as a message but kids hear it, especially in commercials on shows aimed at kids.

AND they get the message from adults, even if unconsciously -- that expectation that children won't like certain things comes through. It is ubiquitous in America, but I think not so much in other countries. Or, maybe you were a picky eater and meals were rough when you were little -- if you are expecting the same from your children, that is what you will get (my sister would preface each new meal with "if you don't like it you don't have to eat it" -- okay in and of itself, but really wasn't she telling her kids that she expected them to not like it?)

Yes some people are super tasters and won't like certain things. I'm not fond of cooked green beans or okra. We do need to let that be okay, as long as they aren't demanding the processed, high salt high sugar chemical laden "foods" instead. I'd say, let them skip the broccoli, but don't give them McNuggets or canned soup instead of what everyone else is having -- that is almost getting a reward for being picky!

I started my DD on vegetables before fruit, bucking the typical advice given to mothers. I wanted and thought she could learn to appreciate the natural sweetness and flavors in vegetables before becoming accustomed to fruit sweetness. It seemed to work, she ate everything -- except tomato.

I've taught preschool before, and after observing the eating habits of hundreds of small children, I believe that most picky eating is a learned habit. There are, of course, exceptions for sensory or texture issues, or particularly stubborn children.

The ones who bring junk food for lunch are also the ones who won't eat or even try anything else. They bring in fast food leftovers from dinner the night before, or lunches that consist solely of packages of cookies and chips. I believe these habits are leaned because that's the type of food given at home.

The ones who eat real, nutritious food at home bring it in their lunches, and they eat most things. I see vegetables, salmon, eggs, quinoa, salads, all sorts of interesting things eaten readily. They never bring highly processed food. They eat it because they are used to it, and because they know there are not other junk food options.

I only ever saw one exception to this which was a little boy who wouldn't ever eat his nutritious lunch and I believe it was more a power struggle than anything. Or maybe he liked the attention - I think his mom used to fawn over him at home to coax him and plead with him to eat his meals, so at school we made sure to avoid giving him extra attention and let him know he had the choice to eat or not, and he was old enough to understand not eating meant he would be hungry later.

I should mention this is a very affluent area and I know that these parents who provide the bad lunches can afford real food. It's a conscious choice and I only hope the picky kids will grow out of it before their health suffers.

Pillog, both parents went to the same university so are very familiar with the innumerable options available for dining. This boy lives on Cheerios. He has added bananas now, so it's a start. He'll eat plain pasta with nothing but butter and salt - no cheese. He will eat eggs fixed in a variety of ways. He can cook.

His biggest problem is going to be when he pledges a fraternity in Jan of his freshman year. At that time, any meal plan he has must be transferred to the fraternity house where he will take all his meals, even though he won't be living in the house until his Sophomore year.

I think she's just going to have to bite the bullet and get him a meal plan that includes at least 2 meals daily - perhaps he can "breakfast" in his room since he will be renting a small refrig that fits under the raised bed.

What I'm hoping is that his coach will have the boys work with a nutritionist and perhaps she will figure out something. Since he's not a football player, there is no "training table" for those playing his sport. His bizarre eating habits have not hindered his physical development at all - he's 6'2", has muscles in his upper body and legs that are almost freaky, and is in superb physical condition. I guess one should not underestimate the nutritional value of Cheerios, bananas and milk!

Or youth! Young bodies are very resilient. Hopefully a nutritionist will help before it becomes more of an issue as he gets older. I've never heard of that kind of pickiness in someone that age, but I'm sure the nutritionists have, and know how to handle it.

I'm surprised he hasn't been to a nutritionist yet, or has he? That would be my first step, regardless of what the coach does. He sounds willing enough to try to help himself.

"ann_t

Being picky with food and being full and not hungry are two different things."

------------------------

If you are hungry, you will not be picky.

"In July 2015, forces aligned with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad began laying siege to the Syrian town of Madaya, cutting it off from the outside world, including its access to food supplies. By early January, residents had been reduced to eating grass and insects. They had already eaten the city's stray cats and dogs."

I have talked to some old timers, during war times, they ended up mixing river mud with flour to make bread to feed their children. Yes, there was no more cats around, so there were plenty of rats. They ate rats.

dcarch

Well Dcarch, we aren't talking about the "old days", or war zones we are talking about introducing new foods to kids.

Withholding food from children so that they are "starving" before feeding them with the idea that this will prevent a child from being a picky eater is ridiculous. And there is a major difference between someone that is a picky eater and one that doesn't want to eat something that they do not like. I am a picky eater. Not because I won't eat something, but because I want things cooked/prepared a certain way. And I'm very tolerant of others likes and dislikes when it comes to foods. I just don't believe in forcing children or adults to eat something that they expressly do not like.

I also disagree with dcarch about "if you are hungry you will not be picky". I grew up poor and many times actually went hungry. We ate what was on the table or went without, but many times I'd go to bed hungry rather than eat cornmeal mush or Grandma's Lima Bean Stew with those big mealy dry lima beans. I still would.

I'm adventurous, but also kind of picky. I have this texture aversion so if it's mushy, slimy, gelatinous, I'm not going to eat it. I can't even swallow Jello, a mouth full with make me gag. Bananas are mostly out of the question, along with okra and raw oysters. I do follow Renee's 7 year rule, with some exceptions. I'm never going to be able to eat raw oysters or jello, they are just too disgusting in texture. Although I dislike them, I've found that I can eat a banana if it's very firm (and preferably covered with Hershey's syrup), and I actually like peanut butter and avocado, two foods I avoided and refused my entire lifetime. I still struggle with scrambled eggs, although I eat them if there's no choice.

My girls ate what I cooked, and both love vegetables and fruits, but Ashley also loved junk food. Either one of them would sit on the couch and eat cold spinach from the canning jar, which would astonish their friends. My rule was that if we had something they truly didn't like they didn't have to eat it, but I wasn't making anything special. There was peanut butter and there was cold cereal and they were welcome to make their own supper. They were not allowed to say they didn't like it until they tried it. Neither is a foodie and neither particularly enjoy cooking. Amanda could easily be a vegetarian and Ashley would be happy living on take out if they did not have families. I remember that Ashley would refuse a meal and I'd tell her she wasn't getting anything to eat until she ate some portion of that. She'd refuse, I'd demand and once she went an entire day without eating anything, and she went to bed hungry. She still wasn't eating it the next day, so I revised my plan to allow her no dessert and no snacks and no treats until she ate her meals. That was a better plan, LOL.

The grandkids? They are all different. Makayla, The Princess, has the same texture aversions that I do. She eats a lot of things, including fruits and vegetables, but won't eat jello, pudding, mashed potatoes, applesauce, anything with that thick, viscous texture. She refuses all sauces, including catsup for french fries, salad dressings, condiments on sandwiches. Everything is eaten plain. People used to explain to me that if I'd just give her ranch dressing or some dip, she'd eat anything because "all children love to dunk their food in XXXXX". Whatever, she HATES dips, dressings and sauces. She loves to cook. Her brother likes sweets. He hates vegetables and the only fruit he likes is pineapple. He refuses to eat pasta of any kind, including spaghetti and ravioli. He doesn't like meat if it's not bacon or sausage and will only eat pizza if it's just cheese. Madison has the same texture issues as Makayla and I do, but she tries to like things. Her favorite food in the world is strawberries and she's learned to eat mashed potatoes and scrambled eggs despite the texture. Maci is another lover of sweets doesn't like much of anything else, although she'll eat a can of cold Spaghettios. EXCEPT she loves Caesar salad, go figure.

Elery's grandkids mostly won't eat anything other than fast food, pizza, sandwiches and fruit. None of them will touch any vegetable other than raw carrots.

So, they're all different. You find what works, what they like, and go from there. If they don't like vegetables you can fight or you can let them eat the three vegetables that are acceptable to them and make it up with extra fruit (or vice versa for me, I'm not crazy about fruit and love vegetables). I do think that giving your child many different foods while they are still small helps.

Oh, and both my girls and all the grandkids have "helped" in the garden. They like it, they help prepare the food,, they choose seeds and plants, but it does not change what they eat or like. If they don't like that vegetable it doesn't matter if it was grown by them or by Mr. MacGregor and picked by Peter Rabbit himself, they are not going to eat it.

Annie

I hope no-one thinks I was suggesting starvation when I suggested bringing a good appetite to the table.

Growing up, my grandmother lived with us and did the cooking. She was a good cook. If we wanted a snack within an hour of mealtime, my mother would tell us that it would spoil our appetite for the meal that my grandmother was working so hard to prepare, and be disrespectful to her hard work. So, that was a no go, since we loved and respected her. She'd suggest a glass of water, which was often what was needed.

It's a pleasure to sit down to a meal with a healthy appetite.

I have found that like almost all of parenting, it is a crap-shoot. Exposure to good habits helps but there is no guarantee that it will stick or have the same result for each child. This seems to be true of most things. I have heard, if you read to your child, they will love reading and start reading on their own at a young age (my oldest was 7 before he read, although he reads great now). If a child reads a lot, they will be a great speller (that has not been the case for my daughter). If you don't give your kids something to drink at a certain time, they will not wet the bed (my kids were genetically predisposed for night time wetting for some time). It goes on and on.

I have 4 kids. They have been exposed to a variety of foods, including vegetables, many of which they have helped grow. The processed food they eat was limited. Soda was a weekend treat and so far, they are all different. One thing they do have in common is not liking most salad dressings. They eat their salads plain which is generally healthier but definitely outside the norm. Sometimes it is finding different ways of preparing things, too. Most veggies growing up were prepared steamed which I did not like. Once I discovered stir-fried and caramelized veggies, my consumption sky rocketed. I think this is an area, too, where parents have to practice what they preach. If they see one parent not eating anything healthy, it is foolhardy to expect the kids to do otherwise.

Oldest son, almost 20: He recognizes that Chips Ahoy are not good. He saw somebody eating Chef Boyardee when he was 6 or 7 and asked grandma for it. He was not impressed and despises store bought birthday cake. He knows what good food tastes like but he has no interest in preparing the food for himself and is quite content to grab fast food (some of the better fast food but still, not high brow chow). He drinks far too much soda but as he pays for it himself, he is old enough to make that choice. He does eat most of what is served to him but will also skip lunch if what is available does not appeal to him. Will also skip breakfast because he is not a fan of cereal but not motivated enough to cook his own eggs.

Daughter, 16: Eats most of what she is served, likes baked goods a bit too much although she will at least cook things herself. She still prefers cereal to eggs most mornings. She is opposed to pork on an ethical basis. I respect this and try to have alternatives for her when we are having pork but that alternative means she has to cook it herself most times. She does not care enough about fast food to spend her own money on it. She has worked at Domino's for 2 months now and has only purchased a soda from there in the entire time. Her choices are also limited by health issues, diabetes and celiac disease. Fortunately, she does not mind the taste of artificial sweeteners. She does not eat a lot of them but they come in handy for tea and her limited soda.

Son, 13: He had sensory issues related to his autism but he overcame most of them. For it was mind over matter. Once he was staring at a mushroom on his plate, and he had been feeling sick. I told him mushrooms are thought to boost the immune system. He took a bite, said that he felt better and has eaten mushrooms ever since. Works for me. I don't think he cares about food much either way beyond some typical treats. He did say that he thought beets were poison. Mind was not going to conquer that matter.

Son, 11: This one is a super taster. He says most brassicaes taste hot when cooked. He will eat them raw though, so if I am roasting Brussel Sprouts, broccoli or whatever, I set some aside for him raw. The rule is you eat what I cook or go hungry. He would have no problem living on PBJ or cereal so I do not give that option for dinner. Once he looked at a chickpea curry and told me that he would rather just starve. He is not impressed by lasagna but loves seafood, even squid. I can't figure any of them out.

Somebody said, and I am paraphrasing, "Children are very good at knowing what they want, but not so good at knowing what they need."

I also notice that the kids who seem to eat nothing but highly processed foods and snacks have extremely limited palates. And sensory issues are much more understood today than they were when I was a kid.

And yes! I grew up w/ 'don't spoil your dinner' as well and used it myself. Now it seems many kids are snacking, drinking sweetened drinks and eating candy all day long, then have little appetite for a real meal - go figure!

I recall a study done awhile back showing that it was impossible for something to be too sweet for children's tastes...

DGS is NOT a picky eater - he's a "super-taster". Yes, there really IS such a thing and one is born that way. Look it up on NYTimes - lots of articles about this. He just tastes things MORE than most people do. Even chicken breast has a very strong taste to him. He doesn't have much of a sweet tooth - everything tastes VERY sweet. He would love to eat everything/anything. He's very social and a natural leader and knows that this is someday going to be a social handicap - it already is occasionally. He's learned some compensatory skills - swigs things down with copious quantities of milk or water if he must.

I can picture him entertaining clients someday and ordering pasta with butter and nothing else on it, and a salad with no dressing....

I was one of five kids in a poor family, so we ate everything that was put in front of us. With one exception: One brother thought mushrooms were the devil (today, he loves them).

My own oldest was picky from the start, and -- yeah -- looking back, I agree with the "let them be a little hungry" concept. Thing is, she loved milk, and I allowed her to have it whenever she asked, and it filled her up. The result was that she wasn't hungry and wouldn't eat what she was given -- especially vegetables. If I had it to do again, I'd only allow water between meals. Today though, she's a vegetarian but eats anything other than meat.

My youngest was so much easier. She always ate whatever I gave her. It wasn't me -- I treated them the same way -- it was innate differences with which they were born.

I agree with having a healthy appetite kind of hunger makes the food taste better. I'm not so keen on let the kids go hungry if they don't like the dinner, unless it's obviously a power play (excepting cases like Annie's childhood when there really wasn't an alternative some of the time). OTOH, that doesn't mean one must cater to whims, unless maybe the child is unwell and needs some cosseting. Our rule was if you don't like your dinner you're welcome to help yourself to something else. Dinner was never really that bad. :)

I've never heard of allergies coming from lack of exposure to certain foods, though desensitization comes from exposure to minuscule amounts of the food in question. That's for building up a tolerance so as not to have a reaction, however, not to make it something one can eat with impunity. Generally, poor kids digging through trash heaps may have allergies but have so many other problems they may not be recognized as coming from the food, and they have strong immune systems from exposure to so much filth in a place where a weaker constitution would have gotten sick and died already. Physically weak people, however, often make great strides in intellectual and artistic fields, so there's a good reason to protect them and make sure they survive until they can make their contributions to society.

Be careful with forcing kids to do more than taste something! There are some foods I'm allergic to--potentially dangerously (as opposed to others I'm allergic to which just bring mild discomfort)--which taste extremely bad to me. Like why would anybody put that in their mouths bad. I figure it's my body telling me it knows this is poison. Others, particularly children who are known to use hyperbole freely anyway, may have the same thing going on but not understand what it is or how to express it. If your kid says it tastes like poison, please, please, please don't make him/her eat it!!! It might really be!

Anglophilia, I know a Cheerios and milk type, myself, many decades of age. His social accommodation is that he will eat a plain plain plain very good quality steak, and/or a plain baked potato with butter on the side. He cannot and will not eat anything saucy or slimy. Except ice cream, but he doesn't like the high fat slimy ones. He also has a lesser aversion to foods one might describe as "wet". Best of luck to your grandson in his frat. Perhaps there they will allow him to fix his own food if it's not too weird.

"Children allowed to be picky eaters develop allergies

Allowing children to be picky eaters could make them more prone to allergies later in life, scientists have warned."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8909837/Children-allowed-to-be-picky-eaters-develop-allergies.html

dcarch

Wondering if you read the article....it wasn't about picky eaters but about exposing children to many foods and the mechanism of introducing small amounts of potential allergens.
Let me guess....you have never been a parent.

My daughter gagged on banana as a 6 week old baby ( we started solids early in those days)....and continued to do so....today she has been confirmed as allergic to bananas.
One Thanksgiving maybe 10 years ago...I had family and a couple of "strays" ( my word for those who didn't have family near to visit) and one of the picky twins, as I was putting the turkey and stuffing and gravy and mashed potatoes and apple and pear salad and green beans and rolls and scalloped oysters and 2 kinds of cranberries and dinner rolls and sweet rolls on the table asked his mom to make him a grilled cheese sandwich...because "there was nothing to eat"!! I blew! I said you will find something to eat that is on the table or go hungry....and I condescended to put some cheese on the table ( there had been cheese at the cocktail hour, so I just brought in what was left.) He ate a roll and cheese....and put some potatoes on his plate...and a tiny bit of turkey.
But that was the beginning of him realizing that food is a "social thing"....and by not eating pizza and a hamburger, fried chicken (other than those awful nuggets) he was becoming someone who was left out of social situations. That was the beginning of eating like a normal person.

I also have a couple of friends who ask for recipes of things I have made....and then say..."I could never make that...it has onions or garlic or tomatoes or a little bit of chili powder, my husband wouldn't eat it."...I cannot imagine living with someone like that....not to mention cooking for him.
I have a friend who is an adventurous eater....but says he hates onions. I ignore it! He has eaten French onion soup....and chicken livers topped with a pile of caramelized onions....but he does kind of shudder at a raw onion bit in a salad.
I think 80% of food prejudices are simply things you "think" you won't like!

That article is about giving babies a varied diet and says that there's no real current evidence to prove their hypothesis, just the beginnings of a small bit of potential evidence. It basically says nothing at all.

BTW, I still hate olives. I'm not allergic to them. Not one little bit. And I've grown to appreciate EVOO if it's fresh and floral, though I couldn't bear it in any form for years. There are a few ancient (non-hybridized) varieties that I can deal with. Recently, I was fed pizza with a few slices of black olive on it, and wasn't in a position to pick them off, and was pleasantly surprised that they just made it kind of briny and earthy. So when I was in a position to buy the same pizza from the same place, I didn't ask them to hold the olives. Looked just the same.

BUT IT TASTED LIKE OLIVES! Bleeech! Pfui! Had to dig every little black piece of it out they were so olivey. Nasty! At least they didn't pollute the rest of the pizza. When I was a kid I wouldn't eat paella if my mother put olives in it because they made the rice taste funky. I wonder if the previous pizza's olives were from a new can or an old one, or the olives that made it into that batch were just wimpy or what. I reaffirm, however, that for the most part I hate olives. And I do try now and then because they seem like they should be delicious, and I've never had any kind of allergy to them even though they taste so nasty.

Black olives are a strange thing. There are no naturally black ones - they're dyed and I think that's what makes them taste vile. The natural ones are purple and delicious - especially the little ones from Nice, i think.

Apparently it takes on average 20 attempts to encourage a little one to try new foods.

I didn’t eat olives or anchovies until I was in my 40s- I was working in a restaurant that also did pizza, and at the end of the night the owner would use up the remaining prepped ingredients on a pizza and send it home with me. It seemed impolite and ungrateful to say, Oh, but I don’t like...so I just said Thanks, and ate them. I ended up quite liking them :-)

Similarly I wasn’t a fan of blue cheese until I worked in a restaurant that had Gorgonzola on the menu. Now I’m even converting DH to the dark side :-D

I didn’t like Camembert until I started eating it out of politeness when visiting the in laws when I was dating DH, and I wouldn’t eat cooked vegetables until I left home. Now I eat Camembert and vegetables with gusto.

I still don’t like oysters, though I did once have a mussel I liked. But it was a special recipe as part of a degustation menu.

"I've never heard of allergies coming from lack of exposure to certain foods" -- Oh but lots of recent research shows this to be true. For example, countries that have been warning parents not to give their kids peanut products for fear of nut allergies have increasing rates of extreme peanut allergy. A big study compared American jewish families that were avoiding peanut products with Israeli families of similar ancestry that didn't avoid peanut products, and the rate of peanut allergy was very low in the Israeli children (as it was before the 1980s, when peanut allergies were rarely heard of, right?).

"I've never heard of allergies coming from lack of exposure to certain foods" -- Oh but lots of recent research shows this to be true.----"

Picky eaters are 5 times more likely to be autistic. Chicken or egg? Which is the cause ? I will let you do the research.

We (USA) have such lousy eating habits. The lack of diversity in food has resulted in, for some people, the need for fecal transplant .

There is nothing immoral or abusive to create a situation in which a child can be encouraged to eat properly. When a child is unwilling to do home work, you have no problem managing the situation by using reasonable discipline. Same approach is needed when eating is involved.

Although I have to say that I don't mean to force kids to eat foods which even adults need to "acquire" the taste for or foods which the kid already are allergic to.

Kindness can kill, and love can be abusive.

dcarch.

Picky eaters are 5 times more likely to be autistic. Chicken or egg? Which is the cause ? I will let you do the research.

Considering the many, many years autism was incorrectly attributed to cold, unloving mothers, you really want to go full circle back to blaming the parents? That is an absolutely disgusting thing to say. I'm trying to think you are just clueless about this particular topic instead, but I'm having difficulty convincing myself.

"----Considering the many, many years autism was incorrectly attributed to cold, unloving mothers,---"

Sorry if I offended you. Of course I am talking about loving mothers (BTW loving fathers too).

And BTW, I did not say what causes autism.

My entire discussion is about parents can have a lot to do with some children's bad eating habits.

I suppose you also disagree that we have a major eating problem with children.

dcarch

If your kid says it tastes like poison, please, please, please don't make him/her eat it!!! It might really be!

Pllog, that may be pertinent in some cases. In the case of the beets, none had even touched their lips. I think the color of the beets was a major turn off as they can appear ghastly. It is rather ironic though, because I have tried to force myself to eat beets because they are so pretty. Alas, they taste like dirt and I cannot get past that, even though I would like to. That also means my kids are off the hook because their father is the only one who will eat them.

On the other hand, my oldest DS would often state that he did not like celery. He did not mind eating it cooked in things like stuffing or soup but raw celery did not float his boat. There were always other healthy snacks (which he also did not want) so I let it slide. This year, we figured out he is allergic to celery. This came about from eating celery root which has more of the allergen compound. It is apparently more common than I realized and I hate to take celery root off of my to grow list because the deer leave it alone and it grows well but I figure he will only be under roof for a few more years at the most.

We all know that the problem with babies is that they will eat anything and everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EiZDuZcI38

dcarch

DC you have some strange ideas on raising children. The more you have posted on this thread the more abusive your ideas appear to be with regards to feeding children .

Tishtoshnm, absolutely! Looking like poison is irrelevant. :) Tasting like poison, to a little kid, could actually be a burning sensation. "But, Jimmy, mangoes aren't hot like peppers! You're imagining it," can be a horrid dance with death never dreamt of or desired by well meaning elders. Coconut, to me, tastes unutterably foul. Truly revolting. I've only had a serious reaction when it was so well disguised by other flavors, in a Thai style curry I think, that I ate a good portion of it, instead of spitting it out. I'm glad you learned about your son's allergy while he was still at home, so he can learn how to avoid it. Which is hard to do with celery!

Beets do taste like dirt unless they're prepared correctly. Then they taste like candy. :)

IC, the only olives I get anywhere near eating are brown, from greenish-brown to reddish-brown. I don't like purple olives any more than I do the "black" ones, nor green-green, nor red, nor any of the big ones. I just hate olives. In a pick around them if I can way, not a spit out the poison way.

Re autism, I recently read a summary of some preliminary research that lent evidence to the hypothesis that it is caused (or potentially enhanced) by a lack of cellular communication. There is a growing amount of evidence that it's metabolic. The biggest whopper I've heard was one they used to put in Psych texts that said that autistics passed some Piagettian phase in the womb ahead of schedule.

Re peanut allergies, I haven't found the older study with Americans and Israelis so don't know directly what it said. Just the flat comparison of who has allergies doesn't tell the story because there are many more factors than eating peanuts or not. There was a study recently comparing London based families with Israelis, probably using the other you mentioned as a starting point. They were specifically looking at families thought to be at risk of their babies developing food allergies. Previous research had indicated that pregnant mothers eating a lot of peanuts might cause the allergy, and that early childhood exposure might, so people whose babies might be at risk were avoiding peanut products, but that wasn't necessarily preventing the allergies.

The new study tested babies thought to be at significant risk for the allergy, and if they did not have the allergy yet, the babies were given small exposures to peanuts thinking that that would prevent the allergy or desensitize the baby. That's not dissimilar to the work previous done in England to desensitize older children with deathly peanut allergies by given them amazingly minuscule amounts of peanut daily, increasing up to a spoonful of peanutbutter at home. This doesn't mean that the kids are no longer allergic. Just that with a maintenance amount of peanut desensitizing the reaction, they don't have to worry about dying because someone nearby is eating peanuts. Giving the exposure to babies might indeed prevent them from developing the allergy later, but nowhere near enough time has passed to know whether they've achieved short term desensitization or had any kind of enduring effect.

Making blanket statements about what does or does not cause and trigger allergies is dangerous when the researchers don't have any clear knowledge yet. Allergies can be deadly. Just don't force people to eat things they don't want to. Yeah, they might just be picky, but they might die.

Yes, there are actually supertasters. I know this because my doctor tested me and said I am. I was wondering why the lettuce at Subway tasted metallic to me, and all my friends thought I was nuts. The old doc put a strip in my mouth and asked me how it tasted. It tasted vile, bitter, astringent, I had to spit it out. He said that it would taste slightly bitter or flavorless to a person with normal taste buds, but nearly intolerable for supertasters. He also explained that it was nothing all that spectacular, just some extra taste buds. (Shrug) He also explained that it was why I could taste the metallic flavor of preservatives, why I dislike olives, red wine, salty pickles, and why I like my greens cooked with a teaspoonful of sugar. I eat broccoli, but not raw and I love brussels sprouts, so that's odd.

Anyway, I do not believe that any type of malnutrition/nutrition causes autism, although I could see how autistic people would dislike or avoid particular foods, due to sensory or other issues.

Annie

Every child is different, as evidenced by many of the responses above.

I'm not a doctor, or a researcher, but believe that if a mother nurses, many of the flavors of whatever she's eaten are passed on to the baby in the milk, so its potentially a much wider variety of flavors than would be found in formula or baby foods. I have no idea if that situation could help a child be introduced to a wide range of flavors.

Generally speaking, I think most children will eat better if they are a little hungry, and most children I've met, stop eating when they are full. A friend with twins (early teens now) feeds them the same -- one is much heavier set than the other. ?? Who knows. I've also hosted children who appear overweight, but who genuinely seem hungry and ask for more food. I can't imagine as a parent saying no to a child in that situation. Obesity is certainly an issue in this country, but so are food disorders.

On the other hand, there are children who suffer from tactile issues; supertasting, and other sensory stimulations, and many of those children would starve themselves rather than eat something they find objectionable. I do think that's one indicator -- if your child is willing to pass up food and you know they are hungry -- there's possibly more going on. And -- there are many possibilities for addressing it, including therapy (both food-based and other).

One of my children has a peanut allergy, and its unlikely she will outgrow it (we keep hoping, we have heard 20% do). I often wonder if we did something "wrong" that caused it. Desensitization therapy is promising (Allergist has not recommended it for us yet) but it would be great to know that she could survive an accidental ingestion.

It's certainly more convenient if one's children do not have allergies, and if they are happy to eat a wide variety of foods. But its up to each family whether they want to have "clean your plate" or other rules regarding food. One of our two kids -- if you're eating it and you look like you're enjoying it -- she has GOT to try some -- that's a personality feature. The other one -- meh. They both enjoy a variety of foods.

Not everyone grows up in a situation where they can eat nice food, and that can affect how they view food...I have friends whose family was terrible at cooking, and they had a pretty dim view of the whole eating thing. Now they are fairly open to trying things, and are often surprised how well-prepared versions of stuff they thought they didn't like, taste pretty good. Ditto for people who have not had the opportunity to try home grown fruits and vegetables -- they are often so different than what can be purchased at the store.

"ann_t

DC you have some strange ideas on raising children. The more you have posted on this thread the more abusive your ideas appear to be with regards to feeding children ."

Ann_t, I respect your opinions and views. Perhaps you can point to what I have said which you feel is/are abusive in nature?

I am certainly open to learn from you.

dcarch

The whole idea of keeping a child hungry is abusive. Of course, maybe I have misunderstood what you are saying. If what you mean by that is don't let them have a snack an hour before dinner, than that I understand.

I still don't agree with you that a hungry child is more apt to eat what is put in front of them and not become a picky eater. I don't believe anyone a child or an adult should be forced to eat something that they do not like.

You seem to be implying that punishing a child will make them eat what is put in front of them, even if it is something that they "hate". Just because they are hungry. I can tell you from first hand experience that doesn't work. It certainly didn't work for me.

There were four kids in my family. I had an older brother and a younger sister and brother, and our tastes varied. We were all introduced to the same food, at sit down meals. My older brother and younger sister to this day won't eat anything but very plain food. No garlic, onions and seasonings other than salt and pepper. Which is basically how my mother cooked. My older brother Tom still eats pasta with gravy, including canned gravy (gag) never in a traditional pasta sauce. My sister is a plainer eater than Tom. My youngest brother, was a little more adventurous than the other two. I was the only one that would eat "ethnic" foods.-+

I made Quenelles. Moe loves Quenelle, but this one had spinach in it so the dumplings were green. For some reason he just couldn't eat them. Something about the colour turned him off. Hey, more for me.

Everyone's taste buds are different and allowances should be made for that. I consider it abuse to insist that someone eat a food that they do not like. For whatever reason, be it taste or texture or even colour.

ann_t

The whole idea of keeping a child hungry is abusive. Of course, maybe I have misunderstood what you are saying. If what you mean by that is don't let them have a snack an hour before dinner, than that I understand.

How many times have you said “I am so hungry I can eat a horse”? Do you eat when you are not hungry? Making sure you don’t over feed the children before meal time to me is good parenting. I don’t think I have indicated that you need to starve a child.

I still don't agree with you that a hungry child is more apt to eat what is put in front of them and not become a picky eater. I don't believe anyone a child or an adult should be forced to eat something that they do not like.

As I have indicated, a baby’s instinct in to put anything into his/her mouth. (see video I linked). General picky eating (not pathological inherited genetic disorder) many times are developed through years of improper eating environment.

You seem to be implying that punishing a child will make them eat what is put in front of them, even if it is something that they "hate". Just because they are hungry. I can tell you from first hand experience that doesn't work. It certainly didn't work for me.

I agree. There are always exceptions. And I never never would suggest punishment. Encouragement yes.

Everyone's taste buds are different and allowances should be made for that. I consider it abuse to insist that someone eat a food that they do not like. For whatever reason, be it taste or texture or even colour.

I agree that we all have different taste buds and preferences, and no one should be force fed, which would be abusive. With the exception of food allergies, everyone should partake what are offered on the dinning table. Besides it is good for health to eat a variety of food, it is very impolite and inconsiderate that after parents spend the time and effort to bring food and cook food for you and you decide that you want something else just because you like something else more. Eat less of what you don’t like, but do eat a little.

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If you have a picky eater, one of the strategy is to invite a friend’s kid who can eat lots of everything. Imitation and competition works for some.

“Junior, have a little taste of that broccoli then you can have a piece of that chocolate cake” works also for others.

A close friend’s kid wouldn’t touch yogurt. One day I taught him and made yogurt together with him. He is a proud yogurt eater now.

dcarch

I nursed one daughter and not the other, due to some health issues. Both ate pretty much everything. Our small town did not have fast food of any type and I'm not a fan of pizza, so they had no exposure to the chicken nuggets/french fry meal that's so popular with many of today's children, and they didn't have pizza until they were in school. Both are lactose intolerant and the oldest is celiac. Both have some significant health issues now, including a stroke at 27 for my youngest daughter. When they were children, though, the one that got formula was far healthier than her older sister, who was breast fed. So, who knows? (shrug)

Annie

I concur with Annie, Ann and many more above. When our kids were little, we ate a wide variety of food. Didn't matter, my kids were the pickiest! Guess what? It came to light that they also had allergies. Today as adults in their 30's I wouldn't qualify them as adventurous eaters either. My son has real texture issues, but thankfully he's cooking a bit and his significant other is finally venturing into the kitchen. She's a much more adventurous eater. He told me that he loved a chicken fajita dish last week. I nearly fainted! The grandsons (DD's kids) aren't adventurous. That whole family would prefer steak or chicken. DD doesn't eat fish except tuna (canned or as sushi) but SIL will eat salmon. He's a big fruit and veggie eater, DGS2 will follow his lead. DGS1, is pickier. I introduced both kids to cooking and my spice drawer. That's helped quite a bit. DD is busy and they use fast food and prepared food more often than they probably should, but there's always good food available.

Finally, I agree 100% that making food an issue isn't a good idea. We argued with DS for years, it only lead to more arguments, He still wouldn't eat more than nude noodles or a few other things. Hey the kid wouldn't eat chocolate until he was 5-- and we are chocoholics! Food issues are innate!

No doubt some food issues are innate; DSI hated green beans from the time he was spoon fed in a high chair. But a lot of other food issues are crap that they pick up from their peers, being exposed to other kids in daycare, pre-school, elementary school, etc. I've first hand experience with that...foods that my kids had been happily eating for years but after a friend slept over and refused to eat something, both my kids decided they weren't ever going to eat it again.

My attitude with food & kids was to 'pick your battles'. Food just wasn't a war that I wanted to enter into. I cooked; either you eat it or you don't. There's hot dogs in the fridg, Blue Box & cold cereal in the pantry. Help yourself. DSII ended up existing on hot dogs, Vienna sausage, mac/ cheese & Fruity Pebbles for a couple of years. Much to my husband's consternation. Don't worry about it, I told him. He'll grow out of it. And, DSII did. He's still on the picky side but it's from a healthy food perspective. Lots of salad, chicken breast, black beans, broccoli. His go-to breakfast is plain Greek yogurt mixed with peanut butter and raw whole rolled oats. (Yuck!)

BTW, DSI now loves green beans, so much so that he's ventured into growing his own.

Well DC and I are never going to see eye to eye on this topic. I do wonder though if his own children are raising their children the same way.

"ann_t

Well DC and I are never going to see eye to eye on this topic. I do wonder though if his own children are raising their children the same way."

Is it nature? or is it nurture? My view is that it is both. To say that bad eating habits are only innate, and parents should make no effort to remedy is not what I belief.

As to what I feed my family circle, just search back the dishes and foods I have cooked and posted on this forum by the thousands over the years, you can get an idea about the diversity of our tastes. We have zero food allergies and food aversions. I pay attention to making good nutritionally balanced and diverse foods, not so much in attractive plating of food.

Let me add that I do understand the stress and difficulties that many of you have to face when there are family members with serious allergies and food dislikes.

I have friends who have many allergies and they are Kosher eaters.

dcarch

Keeping kosher shouldn't have anything to say about food allergies. You avoid the allergens the same way. The only additive in kashrut is salt. Kosher foods aren't any "heathier" than other foods, and the "for health" rules in kashrut are mostly no longer applicable and are practiced from tradition rather than necessity. Health rules from the current era should be added to kosher practice, but haven't been codified as such yet, as far as I know.

Annie, I'm wondering if your taste for broccoli and brussels sprouts have to do with the garden you picked them from? :) Also, my own objection to brussels sprouts is an olfactory one, rather than a tongue one, so maybe your supertaster isn't bothered and neither is your nose. :) I can't get past the sulphur, though in other cabbage family stuff, I can usually hold my breath and deal.

Ci_lantro, how does he get peanut butter to mix with yoghurt???? Or is it just floating in it?

i have two granddaughters 16 months apart living in the same home g (oldest) eats mostly starches and meat l (youngest) really only likes 4 things grilled chicken breasts, massive amounts of broccoli, strawberries and watermelon (occasionally will eat green beans) g is catcher for high school softball team she's short and stout l is cross country runner (tall and skinny) how these children raised by the same parents with the same menus could be so different i have no clue

We had to try everything once, and there was no such thing as children's food back in my day. We did eat nearly everything at least by age 4. I loathe Brussels sprouts and liver, both of which I enjoy now. I never cared for carrots or chicken breast, but would politely eat the bare minimum... I still treat those foods that way. Dried figs, raisins, dates... no way even now.

We ate and enjoyed all manners of strange foods Dad and Mom would bring home.. tongue, heart, frog legs. I ate snake when I was nine. It was good.

My nieces only liked veggies when they were raw. My older niece loved Tabasco as a toddler, and still enjoys spicy food.. but neither would ever try fish. Well, when the oldest thought Chicken of the Sea was chicken, she ate it... stopping immediately after learning it's tuna.

Plllog, he just swirls it around a bit to incorporate the oats.

"---Keeping kosher shouldn't have anything to say about food allergies. You avoid the allergens the same way. ---"

What I was trying say was that there are many restrictions with cooking Kosher.

It gets more complicated if you have to deal with food preferences and allergies.

dcarch

My DD had to have a "no thank you bite" whenever I was trying to get her to experience something new. I was both proud & amused when I noticed /heard her doing this with my first grandchild.

Growing up, we weren't terribly poor but my parents despised wasted food so we were made to either eat what was put in front of us or go hungry. I will say that mom rarely cooked anything we didn't all enjoy though, with the exception of an occasional pea soup & she did make us kids that didn't like it a grilled cheese instead.

I couldn't stomach many things as a child that I love now; baked beans, onions, turnips are the 3 that easily come to mind.

The mister and I are foster parents with a 7 y/o and her 9 y/o sister currently - feeding them more veggies and fruit than they’re used to having is slow going but it’s something that they’re getting better at being flexible on. The fresh options over winter are limited so I’ve been working with frozen - looking forward to the expanded selection of Spring and Summer.

I won’t eat shrimp or anything of the same kind of gristly texture - I just can’t get it down. I totally understand the texture thing with some people which causes them to give a hard pass to certain foods. Forcing someone to eat everything on their plate or foods they hate is just putting them in a position to have issues around food that can become disordered eating.

Growing up poor we quickly learned that if we didn't eat what was on the table there were no other options. And I was a very picky eater until I went on a giant growth spurt and realized that there weren't enough potatoes to get filled up. When a new food was rarely offered we were not allowed to say we didn't like it until we actually tried it. So I gradually learned to eat stuff that I really didn't like because I was hungry. I never forced my son to eat anything he didn't like but he had to try it first. Now the grandkids have been raised the same way and they pretty much eat everything, including sushi which I still to this day won't eat.

Ah! Dcarch, I understand what you're saying now--thanks for the explanation. But it's not really true. Keeping kosher isn't complicated if you keep kosher (i.e., if you're not a beginner). Yes, allergies and dislikes make cooking more difficult, but it really isn't any more so for kosher cooks as for non-kosher cooks. The exception might be if there were an egg or dairy allergy, because Ashkenazie eating patterns use a lot of eggs and dairy. But that would just put them in the same boat as families that love omelettes, quiche, ice cream, french toast, etc. Even for Passover, there are ways to achieve a feast without eggs, and you don't have to eat the egg on the seder plate.