Visually the 'Mariesii' may be a better total package with clearly layered branching, profuse, relatively large flowers and good fall color. But: is this species hardy where you are?

Good question. Well, they sell both at some of the reputable nurseries here, so I guess that would mean yes. Some sources say it's zone 4 most say 5. Dave's Garden says good to -28.8 C - we do get that cold but not every winter and that's about as cold as it gets... maybe -30 but not for long... average cold spells more low low -20s... so I'd take a chance. They are nice... will berries be visible/present? Read that they might need a nearby similar cultivar for best berry production.. thanks!!

I have a single 'Mariesii' and it doesn't seem to be self fertile. It blooms well in less sun than you have, and had better fall color (stunning rich red) before the trees started filling in more. Sounds like you have a great spot for it. Mine doesn't seem to show any Viburnum beetle damage.

So if I wanted to see more berry production, I should plant any other doublefile cultivar nearby that blooms around the same time? Say something like Summer Snowflake?

If 'Mariesii" has more/better fall color, I think I will go with that...

Seems like there's not that much difference in size and characteristics...

Thanks again!!

^^ Yes :-))

I have a Shasta. My neighbors have a hedge of Mariesii. The berries aren't a major ornamental factor because they are ripe in August, and disappear quickly. I've seen it go from looking like a Christmas tree to stripped in two days. If the idea is to feed birds, the berries are great. If the idea is a long lasting display, the berries are almost worthless :-)

As we see here

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=usna+shasta+viburnum&qpvt=usna+shasta+viburnum&FORM=IGRE

the habit of 'Shasta' is not "heavily layered", with 'Mariesii' being the more uniformly tabular of the two.

That may well be your opinion but most sources, including Classic Viburnums and Dirr, would disagree.

The link posted above didn't show much... just a lot of different images of shasta.. Anyhow, seems like either one would be good but since the 'Mariesii' seems to have the more reliable color, I am leaning toward that..

If you Google images of fall color for both, they are virtually indistinguishable. And are described in much the same terms - red to purple fall foliage; deep burgundy red; plum to maroon; plum-purple, etc. Plant whichever one is the easiest to get your hands on :-)

Fall color on my Viburnum plicatum var tomentosum (no cultivar listed when bought, but may be 'Mariesii' ).

Only about an hour or so of morning sun from 9-10am and heavy shade thereafter. It has seen -30*C and fruits fair to midland but I only have other non plicatum viburnums around (trilobums are closest).

I'd say any tomentosum will please you.

tj

that is a unique and gorgeous fall color...very rich and pleasing to the eye. Thanks...

We have Viburnum Leaf Beetles here... and they strip the couple of blue muffin viburnum i have every spring... should i be concerned about them with regards to the plicatums?

If yes, how can these pests be controlled?

thanks

As I noted above, I've not seen any beetle damage, though I generally am not viewing this shrub up close, so I can't guarantee that it has absolutely no damage. I ripped out my Blue Muffin because it looked so damaged from the beetles and wasn't much to look at regardless, with no fall color, just an ungainly blob with a short bloom season. Since I don't have space limits, a plant has to be pretty ugly for me to shovel prune it.

The beetles overwinter as eggs in branch tips, and you can see which branches have them, so pruning those tips (I burned them in the wood stove) can reduce the problem. But I have two species of wild Viburnum in th woods, so removing all beetle eggs isn't reasonable here. I just choose resistant varieties. I currently have three types of plicatum, and all are quite beetle resistant and far more ornamental than Blue Muffin, which is a far overrated plant IMO. In my garden all the plicatum have a nice structure, good bloom, and striking fall color.

The doublefiles tend to be more resistant to the beetles than many other species, like V. trilobum or dentatum. But that is only resistant, not immune :-))

The recommended controls are to inspect the plants and remove any egg bearing twigs now......you can find illustrations online of what to look for. And applying a sticky substance like Tanglefoot around the base of the plant stems will help to trap any remaining larvae that will migrate down to the soil to pupate. This can also do double duty by trapping root weevils climbing up the stems to feed. Also, encourage populations of beneficial insects.......predatory insects like lady beetles or lacewings feed on the adults.

ETA: Babs and I posting simultaneously :-))

Babs, I hear you. I cannot stand the Bluemuffins. I inherited them when I bought the property 3+ years ago... They are ugly, basically worthless. There were 8 on the property. I ripped out 6 so far - 2 more to go next week.. broke my back doing it as they are big, unpruned and at least 20+ years old.. Here's a pic before I started ripping them out.. you wouldn't believe what the beetles do to these things... I think bluemuffin is crack to them!

Thanks to all for your contributions.. I'll go with either at this point - whichever is available at my nursery...

U G L Y!!

Winter injury is possible on the plicatum's after extreme cold, especially in more exposed locations. Morton Arboretum says "Although hardy to the Midwest, locate in a protected site. plant can dieback in cold winters." The only plicatum I have is Kerns Pink, which had significant damage down to the snow line after the polar vortex a couple years back.

The plicatum's are quite resistant to VLB (although my Kerns Pink does receive minor damage from Japanese beetles). I've noticed one wooded area near where I work has V plicatum beginning to naturalize in the understory.