Painted cabinet doors...Will 5 piece mdf with miters still crack?

6 years ago

I've been reading on the pros and cons of mdf vs wood and all the variations. I just spotted a door I think would be great for me. Not sure of the pricing, but hoping if I get 5 piece mdf instead of "real" wood frames that I can afford it. The corners are mitered. I read NOT to get mitered corners made of painted wood due to cracking. What about mitered 5 piece mdf?? I like the pillowed stiles of this door by Conestoga. I just don't want it to seem fake and plasticy and I want minimal cracking of joints....I'm replacing thermofoil doors on existing cabinets (I have granite and can't replace the boxes without major hassle)

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DrB477
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I don't know how susceptible the mitered MDF are to cracking. If you want a somewhat similar non-mitered Conestoga style, check out the CRP-10 with elite bead (also called Monarch Square). In addition to not being a mitered style, it is also one of the cheaper doors. Mine is hybrid mdf/maple and has a reversed raised panel (i.e. flat) but you can get a raised center instead if you prefer. Conestoga allows for a lot of customization. There is also the presidential square door, which has a little more detail, however its quite a bit more expensive.

I have some additional pictures in my reveal https://www.houzz.com/discussions/pittsburgh-kitchen-mudroom-closet-addition-reveal-dsvw-vd~4948003?n=40

This is a sample of the same door with a raised center panel
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cindywhitall
6 years ago
Your house is amazing! I actually was about to go with the Monarch, then I saw the one I posted about. I like the pillowed stiles. I think I’m just trying to get enough details to justify changing my doors....I have always liked the raised center, but yours with the flat look nice too. I just don’t know what will look better in my house! I’ll look at yours more closely on my pc later.

I am trying to keep price down, so if monarch is less expensive I will go with that.

Did you get any cracking in the paint this winter?
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I guess you're talking about window and door frames, right? In our new build, I've chosen to use a very dark stain for almost all the woodwork in the house. My carpenter and my painter went round and round on this point, but in the end they both agreed rail & style was the way to go. The painter told me that yes, mitered corners can move w/the seasons, but he was confident he could grout the slanted meeting points where it would never show. As good as he is, I disagreed. My carpenter and I discussed forgoing mitered corners because 1) more time-consuming, demanding more time and care therefore more expense; and 2) going w/a contemporary look in the home overall, we decided mitered corners subtly communicated a more traditional home style. I'm really happy w/my choices, and I believe over time - w/this dark stain - I'll be even more pleased I chose rail & stile. Reasons to choose mitered corners, in my book, would be because you're going for a more formal look (take that a couple of diff ways ... formal over casual, traditional over contemporary), or if you're doing a more intricate molding in additional to the simple door and window trim. Many of the more formal molding styles can come pre-cut w/mitered corners, and if you're going to be installing a lot of molding, that's a definite consideration. Here's some pictures of my dark-stained rail & stile trim: two doors; personal opinion is that if you're doing a simple baseboard as well, rail & stile door trim flows much better ... truly seamlessly, I guess! A look at the trim unfinished; also, notice the dark trim around paneled ceiling - I think it would have been more difficult to get corners this perfectly aligned if they'd been mitered: Just FYI: all the trim in the house, all the tongue&groove on the ceiling, everything has been custom-cut on site. I have issues w/pre-cut (buy it by the length at Lowes) trims and moldings. JMHO, of course.
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I find it interesting that so many people here whine about not knowing wood would have grain, or mitered corners shift, etc., yet you're mentioning "too smooth!" Arrrghhh!!! That would be the perfect, imaginary factory wood finish, wouldn't it? Anyway, I don't have a lot to offer, other than the experience that if the MDF is absolutely sealed with paint/finish, whatever, it shouldn't react to humidity -- as you've experienced in your display. IRL, you have families hitting, slamming, rubbing, hanging off, scraping and abusing the doors and drawer fronts. It might (might) chip. As far as a glaze or brush stroke effect, why wouldn't that be as simple as painting with a brush? It's just paint, which after primer and the base coat, is going to act just like paint acts. If you leave brush strokes (or glaze) it's gonna be there. I have seen the 5-piece drawers and drawer fronts. I've also seen the panels MDF (for warping) and the rails and stiles in wood. Both are lovely. I agree with you on the 1-piece with rounded routes. na-huh. Way-cheap-o looking. Cheap, as in no quality, not as in inexpensive. All that said, I guess I'd check into the type of finish and how many coats, types of sealer, etc. That's going to make or break your doors. I suggest asking about Cabinet Coat as a paint finish. Have fun with this new option!
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I know that this topic is getting beat to death, but I feel I must weigh in. If you are doing a painted door you be best off doing a hybrid door, maple or birch rails with a mdf center panel. The stiles and rails will be more durable while the center panel will not show lines from the stave expansions. Cracking is inevitable with the joints, however they can be so slight, that they are not visible, and you can only feel them when you run your hand over them, A flexible finish like latex paint instead a pigmented catalyzed varnish will be more flexible and be less prone to chipping in the future. Plus it is easier to touch up. If you are glazing with a hand rub method you will achieve a better look with catalyzed varnished because they tend to yield a smoother finish. If anyone thinks that a painted finish on a mitered joint with biscuits, will never show finish fractures, than they are naive! A mitered joint is the worst possible joint for a painted finish, mortise and tenon would be a much wiser choice. If the wood at a miter joint contracts then they both contract in the same direction, thus creating the possibility for a joint fracture in the finish. Montalvo, please keep in mind when Khat is talking about cracking the reference is to finish fracturing NOT joint failure. It is possible to have finish fracturing without joint failure. This is why NO door manufacturer or cabinet company would ever warranty against this. The movement of kiln dried wood can be very significant when there is even small moisture changes, With hard maple being one of the worst. If you would like I can post the chart information if you would like evidence. To think that a cabinetmaker would not be using kiln dried wood or making mitered joints without an additional joint lock is ridiculous, they would not be a cabinetmaker, they would be an amateur woodworker.
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You said you ordered the Doors wood with MDF panel - that will not eliminate the paint fissures from expansion and contraction - the wood parts will still move. The mdf panel helps because it is not moving but it is not the cure all. I have a company who does doors made of all MDF but put together like a regular door is and while the paint lines are minimal they are not marketing the product as not ever getting those lines. It will still be possible but much less. As far as chipping goes, I think that will happen no matter what the door is made of. Have a conversation with your KD and see what the real deal is and go from there....Maybe they will let you use one of the doors as a test... bang it around, bump it with pots, soak it with water, spill stuff on it and see what you think ( but you should try that with wood too....) Good luck!
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Fori
6 years ago
I'd expect them to crack much less than wood. But I'd also expect them to look, well, not fake exactly, but not quite woody. Painted MDF details usually manage to look like MDF.

Basically, I'm saying GET A SAMPLE. Not a sample of a different door with the same finish/material, and not the correct door with a different finish (I know how cabinet stores can be!). Make sure this exact door style looks good in MDF before you commit.

I love that door style. Hope it works out!
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DrB477
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
No cracking thus far (again this is with maple frames and MDF centers for the painted cabinets). If I didn't know they weren't all wood (because I bought them that way), I wouldn't know they weren't all wood. But I agree the all MDF mitered can be less convincing.

Get quotes on the different styles to see what the actual difference is, but the CRP-10/Monarch Square is definitely going to be less $$$. More detail is more expensive and it also provides more places to get dirty.

Raised panels are nice too, the flat panel matched the other original 100+ year old doors and cabinetry in my house better. Ironically, even though it matches the old stuff well I also think its also a little more modern looking at the same time.

I started out with a very similar door style to yours (possibly even the same) just because we liked it when we saw it in the cabinet shop. But after thinking it through and understanding the different options along with the pros/cons I ended up with the Monarch Square which was cheaper, more durable, and I think (more or less) equally attractive.
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Painted cabinet doors...Will 5 piece mdf with miters still crack?

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DrB477

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