Flying aphids may be the culprit, but we'd need a pic or two to be sure. Always best to ID a pest before action is taken.

tj

Great idea. I'll get as good a pic as I can and post it. Thanks for the reply.

i have dealt with bugs in the house ..... crikey ...

i tried everything .. and the easiest solution was to slide open the door.. and heave them into a snow bank.. and be done with them ... i cant tell you how much money i spent trying to solve the problem.. when the solution was staring me in the face.. and free ...

also .. after that debacle ... i starting treating my outdoor houseplants with a systemic product .. in sept.. prepping for when they came in the house in 4 weeks or so ...

ken

Hi three4rd,

" There are small black bugs flying around the begonias (actually there
has been evidence of them all over the house), and they leave a sticky
residue around the whole area that the pots are located. It doesn't seem
to be doing the plants much damage - though the leaves look a bit weird
from spraying them every time I water. I use a mild soap / water
solution (I use Shaklee basic H, which can be used on plants from what
their info says) to spray the begonias. "

It is always best to follow tsugajunkie's advice to "Always best to ID a pest before action is taken." Those "flying small black bugs" might be Fungus Gnat adults. If they are Fungus Gnats, they will lay, or already have laid, eggs in your growing medium, which will hatch into maggots that will feed on, among other things, the roots of your begonias. The maggots will pupate, hatch into adults, and become the basis for a population explosion.

How much do you know about that Shaklee basic H product? Or, for that matter, how much do you know about Shaklee ?

ZM

Ah...sounds lovely.....I think one could generate a decent Stephen King plot out of your description! As to Shaklee, we've used their products for years for cleaning and cosmetic purposes. Great products, great company. The basic H product is simply a multi-purpose cleaner. Very benign...doesn't ever seem to burn the foliage. Certainly not up to the level of any sort of insecticidal soap, and so at best I'm maybe protecting the leaves a bit.

Hello again, three4rd,

I am pretty sure that no one is going to read your description of your problem and say, "Hey, that sounds like a job for Shaklee Basic H !"

ZM

Without photos of the pests we are all just guessing :-) And you cannot hope to treat any pests successfully unless you know exactly what you are dealing with.

Zen_man: Well, yeah, I agree totally! I'm not trying to convey in the slightest that Shaklee Basic H qualifies as even a marginally effective treatment for any sort of pests. I simply have been using it to temporarily rid the plant leaves (and my counter top) of the sticky residue that whatever is flying around is generating. Interestingly, though, some quick research I've been doing fails to reveal any association of fungus gnats with sticky secretions. Time to get a picture or two uploaded as gardengal mentioned.

just to give an overview of the part of my begonia collection that has been affected. As yo can see, it would appear no major damage has been or is being done, but the big nuisance is the sticky deposits all over the place.

You can see the sticky deposits I'm talking about on the windowsill. I have to clean this off every week when I water.

And here is one of the little buggers....so any idea what I'm dealing with?

On the other hand, these ARE bugs...but when I brush at them they all appear to be dead. I've had this before...mostly on the leaves of poinsettia that I bring in every year. Typically they get so bad I just throw the plant out. Can't recall having too many issues with begonias.

While I'm at it....what's up with the new growth on this rex? The leaves are coming out all misshapen. This plant is ALSO one that is affected by whatever is causing the sticky deposits. I seem to recall one time years ago having the same problem with new growth on this plant. I believe that time I just cut everything off down to nearly the soil surface. I know these leaves tend to come out curled up but this just looks different somehow. Possibly affected by months of weekly spraying with the soap/water mixture?

The little black flying thing appears to be a fungus gnat. I don't find them to be much more than a nuisance although a heavy infestation can result in some plant damage with their larvae feeding on plant roots. They are typically the result of an overly wet potting mix. You can Google various ways to control, but I find cutting back on watering or changing out the mix for a faster draining one is the easiest.

But the gnats are NOT causing the sticky substance. That is honeydew and is the excretion of sucking insects - aphids, whitefly, scale, leafhoppers, etc. In this case, I'd suspect aphids as the white residue on the leaf is the molted skins of aphids.

IDK what's in the Shaklee product but that may be what's causing some strange growth patterns. I would never recommend using most household products to address plant problems as there are often interactions that can happen that will damage or kill the plant in addition to damaging or killing whatever insect problems it might have. I'd prefer to recommend a proper prepared insecticide - insecticidal soap is perfectly safe to use on indoor plants and will control a great many insect problems. Same with neem oil.

gardengal...thanks for the reply. What's weird is that I see no evidence of any gnats in and around the soil, unless they are down much farther...as you say...and will be going after the roots. It'll be interesting to see what things look like when I move the begonias back outside. Once all of them are out of the pot, I may be able to see any root damage that has taken place. I would think, now that I have them, I'll have to treat everything well before the annuals come back inside next fall, much as Ken mentioned. I'll have to pick up some insecticidal soap and go at it.

Would you (or anyone else here) have any suggestions as to which insecticidal soap would be best to use? Especially since it's for indoor plants....

The gnats only lay their eggs on the soil but otherwise, fly around or find somewhere else to spend their very short adult time on this earth :-) It is only the larvae that feed on the roots and that is really only a problem if the infestation is large enough. But since these creatures can reproduce at a very rapid clip - every 14 to 17 days - it won't take long for populations to build up.

Personally, I find the aphids or other sucking insects to be much more of a serious and damaging pest.

ETA: any prepared insecticidal soap will work and is safe to use indoors. The ingredients and formulations are pretty much identical across all the brands.

Will insecticidal soap also get rid of the aphids (or whatever is causing the honeydew secretions?) I just wonder if some of this is linked to the springtail problem we had last season in the swimming pool? (At least I think they were springtails). Talk about a major nuisance. Those things get into the DE filter and cause major havoc with pressure / having to constantly backwash.

We are surrounded by farmland, and so we're pretty used to dealing with all sorts of insect life.

The insecticidal soap is intended for the aphids or other sucking pest.....it will have little to no effect on the gnats, even if you get them to stay still enough to be sprayed :-)) Those must be treated via other methods

Hello three4rd,

Well, your "bugs" are not bugs. They are most probably aphids.

Adult aphids can have wings and fly, and they "molt" and leave empty skins behind (those little white things). And aphids leave a sticky residue.

Some of your pictures look like fungus gnats.

I suppose it is possible that you have both pests present. It is really a challenge to photograph such small creatures. Fungus gnats fly around, so you usually know if you have them based on that. Winged aphids can fly, but usually don't. Good luck.

ZM

Zen_man....curious as to why you say they aren't bugs? Aphids are members of Hemiptera or "true bugs", which includes aphids. No matter..Just want to get rid of them.

I'm thinking too that I have both problems. Regarding insecticidal soap...I have some of this left over from treating an issue with daylilies this past summer.. Will that do the job on the aphids? It is one of the pests listed on the container.

Gardengal...so what are the "other methods" to get rid of the gnats? The insecticidal soap I have contains pyrethrin...supposed to be ok to use on indoor plants. Pretty sure I've used it before since this isn't the first time I've encountered issues with pests in my plant room. Never had anything like these gnats though that have migrated to other parts of the house even where there are no plants.

Hi three4rd,

" Aphids are members of Hemiptera or "true bugs" "

Insect taxonomy can be a controversial subject. Aphids are a member of the order Homoptera.

They are not "true bugs".

Some people refer to all insects as "bugs".

ZM

You can Google for countless publications and articles on the topic or search here on GW in the houseplants or container gardening forums for advice. But some of the methods include using hydrogen peroxide to flush the soil, yellow sticky traps, BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis), Gnatrol, various systemics, diatomaceous earth and/or using a thin layer of sand on the top of the soil to discourage egg laying. You will need to treat for both the adult gnats and the larvae simultaneously.

But the best way to make sure fungus gnats do not become a problem or to keep them away after treating is to repot the plants in fresh potting mix that is not so heavily peat based and moisture retentive. And water only when the plants need it - never on any sort of schedule. It is the damp, peaty soil that attracts them and nourishes the larvae.

At least according to wikipedia.......Aphids are in the superfamily Aphidoidea in the Sternorrhyncha division of the order Hemiptera. Late 20th-century reclassification within the Hemiptera reduced the old taxon "Homoptera" to two suborders: Sternorrhyncha (aphids, whiteflies, scales, psyllids, etc.) and Auchenorrhyncha(cicadas, leafhoppers, treehoppers, planthoppers, etc.) with the suborder Heteroptera containing a large group of insects known as the true bugs. Early 21st-century reclassifications substantially rearranged the families within Aphidoidea: some old families were reduced to subfamily rank (e.g., Eriosomatidae), and many old subfamilies were elevated to family rank. The most recent authoritative classifications place all extant taxa into a single large family Aphididae.[8]

Gardengal....your points are well taken and you're absolutely right, but over the past (many) years I've gotten into the habit of watering most of my plants on a weekly basis - basically the same day each week. Undoubtedly not the best way in terms of each individual plant's requirements. In my younger, more ambitious days, I had a moisture meter and would check each one religiously and water according to the meter reading. But especially with the annuals, I got in the habit of doing them all the same day each week. A function, partly, of just having too many plants! I've sworn to myself that as plants start to die out, I'm not gonna replace them anymore. In retirement, we travel frequently and so it's always a case of enlisting the help of relatives to come over here and spend a good amount of time to take care of houseplants. I've detected that this has become a bit of a burden.

As it is, I spend roughly 8 hours a month watering plants, not including cleaning up dead leaves, etc. I have always had a habit of adding a good amount of peat moss and vermiculite to whatever potting soil I buy, creating a very loose, yet moisture-retentive mix. Given that probably many of my plants should not go a full 2 weeks without water, I'd have to do something in between 1-2 week intervals, since watering every plant every week is probably too much for some. I might be getting away with how I do it in that every plant sits on a series of plastic grates that set over the top of common storage bins, which collect whatever runs through. Plants never sit in water in the saucers. (Brings up another concern in that the old style plastic pots with detachable saucers are harder to find then was the case years ago). I hate pots that either have no holes in the bottom or else have these attached saucers that don't come off. Then, you have to use a baster to suck out the water if lucky enough not to have it run out on the floor first.

Thing is, I've been watering the same way for decades, and never had any issues with either these gnats or rotting plant roots. I wonder if I bought a few bags of soil that already had them in, and then used that to repot annuals that get dug out in fall. Most other houseplants rarely get transplanted, unless needed.

Whatever you do, do NOT add more peat or any vermiculite to a potting mix. Most are too heavily peat based and water retentive as it is. And vermiculite absorbs and holds too much water as well and once fully saturated, collapses and that adversely affects both drainage and aeration.

If you need to water routinely for convenience sake - and I can understand that - then at least do yourself the favor of improving your soil mix. You can't successfully have both frequent or scheduled watering and moisture retentive soil work in your favor :-)

I grow a lot of plants in containers, both indoor plants and outdoors. But I just don't bother trying to overwinter any annuals. No time to attend to them and they are cheap enough to replace each season.

Thing is, most soil mixes (I generally buy 40-lb bags at the hardware store) I've encountered is this wet, lumpy consistency. Can't even imagine working with it right out of the bag. Kind of stinks too. The peat moss helps to loosen it up so it just crumbles easily in the hand. That's the way I've always done it. Not to gainsay your advice, but I've been doing plants the same way for close to 50 years. You may be thinking I'm buying special mixes designed for houseplants. The stuff I get is just garden soil - probably little or nothing added to it...sold under names like "country soil" or whatever. The brand they have seems to change every time I go there. I know you can buy mixes that already have the moisture increasing additives I mentioned. Undoubtedly, the quality of the soil I'm buying is likely not as good as in the past - doesn't seem to be anyway. Can't help but wonder what sort of undesirable stuff is in there. AND...if it isn't sterilized, then you really have to wonder.

I hear you about the annuals!...but it just goes against me to let them freeze. Can't do it. Also, I love seeing the blooms during the winter months on the begonias and geraniums. But, believe me I know what you're saying....it takes aLOT of extra time. I spend at least 2 days bringing in annuals - generally around 15 pots (some quite sizable) between the begonias, geraniums, purple heart, and any poinsettias that seem free of bugs (or should I say insects?). Typically I feed all the annuals every week too. By the time I take them back out of the pots, there are alot of roots. Then I just take a big knife and cut the begonias into smaller chunks for planting back in the beds.

Guess I just don't play by the rules! I know the old adage about always putting a root-bound plant into a bigger pot. Well, that worked for a few years until doing so literally almost pushed me out of my house until adding an addition just for plants. Now, I just take a pot-bound plant out of the pot, use a big knife and saw off a couple inches worth of roots all around, then stick it right back in the same pot. Works fine.

You want a dedicated potting soil - not a garden soil, which is intended for another purpose altogether!!To loosen up a heavy wet potting mix, you want to add either bark fines or perlite or pumice. You need drainage enhancers to lighten the soil, not anything that will add to the moisture levels, which is what adding peat will do. It may be dryish when you add but it wll rapidly absorb water, either from the mix itself or when you water.

I've been doing this a long time as well but have a very sound understanding how plants function in a container setting - very different from in the ground - and teach classes each year on container gardening. There is considerable science behind it - particularly with regards to the media - if you wish to take the time to research or have an interest. I'd recommend starting here: Container Soils - Water Movement and Retention

I really appreciate your suggestions, but, with all due respect, I'm just going to continue on as I have been...adding peat and vermiculite to whatever I buy. I checked the most recent bag I bought and it is called "potting soil". I've no doubt there is much I don't know about all this, but a room full of plants (some almost too large to pick up) over the past several decades would suggest that what I've been doing somehow manages to work for me. I appreciate the link and will take a look at it.

You DID ask for suggestions to control or rid yourself of fungus gnats and a better, less water retentive potting soil is the most frequently recommended solution :-) However, it is always your choice on what to use and how to use it.

Yeah...I know. But even contemplating the idea of taking all my plants apart, disturbing root systems, and repotting is well out of the realm of possibility, nor do I have the desire to do so. As I said, I've not changed my approach in how I do a mix....what has changed is the sudden appearance of these gnats - if indeed that's even what they are. What I'm seeing flying around today don't appear to have the sized wings that I'm seeing on internet images of gnats.

Fungus gnats are tiny.....usually no more than 1/8th of an inch. Many folks mistake them for no-see-ums or fruit flies, except that they are only focused on plants and soils. And that is where yours came from.....either brought in from outdoor soils or from infested potting soil.

Well, I'm mostly seeing winged and non-winged aphids, and plenty of their white cast off exoskeletons. A large mess of the white detritus is a sure sign that you have an active aphid explosion going on. The misshapen growth could be from the aphids feeding on the buds and new growth, a very common symptom of an aphid infestation.

It's highly likely, though, with your poor watering habits and peaty potting mix that fungus gnats may be flitting around, too.

If you listen to nothing else, please heed the advice against adding peat and vermiculite to an already peaty and mucky potting mix. Makes zero common sense to make a bad planting medium worse. At least, try to switch to perlite.

You're not exactly a ground breaker when it comes to your practice of root pruning and replanting into the same pot. Many of do that, year after year. But I make darned sure that I improve the potting medium when it's time to repot! You can do that one plant at a time, right?

As I said, the stuff I'm buying from the hardware store is like mud when you open up the bag. How would I ever use it that way? Again...the system has worked for me for 30+ years and can't see why it wouldn't continue to do so. Suffice it to say I have far more planting experience behind me than lies ahead! Otherwise, if this medium composition is so critical, wouldn't I have been A) rotting out plants right and left over the years, and B) have encountered these gnats well before now? I blame the recent turn of events not on my watering habits or plant medium composition, but on the (probably) crappy and (likely infected) bags of soil I bought the last couple times.

Thanks to all for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I am not sure why you are so resistant to making any changes when it would very likely result in much healthier and productive plant growth as well as eliminate any ongoing issues with fungus gnats. But it is certainly your choice to do as you wish.

btw, "the (probably) crappy and (likely infected) bags of soil" IS the current planting medium composition or at least the basis of it so it is very much to blame!!

"I am not sure why you are so resistant to making any changes"....I just have to laugh a bit since I heard this same thing on a totally different forum (dealing with cub cadet tractors). It got to the point where I actually left the forum. I'm not sure what you are suggesting I do? Start taking apart all my potted plants down to a depth of several inches...or even farther....and add new ground to each? As to "productive plant growth"...I guess I should have shown a picture of the entire sunroom where those begonias are in. There is enough 'productive plant growth' going on out there (should be with 20 windows on all but the north side) for me. Much more and I'll need another addition. There are plants out there still going strong that I've had since the late 70s....in the same exact type of mix that I still use.

All these annuals - which prompted me to post in the first place - are going to be outside hopefully by mid-May. I WILL look very carefully at what type of soil I want to put them in come fall (although whatever is around the roots, etc., will still be there anyway since I don't bring in bare root stock...I dig out the annuals in different sized clumps to fit my pots). AND I will look more closely at what sort of potting mix I'm buying - perhaps go with a bit higher quality brand (is there such a thing?) or at least a more recognizable one. BUT (sorry) I will continue to add peat moss and vermiculite.

I still think (and this has not been addressed here other than my mentioning it) that the springtail situation has come into play nor am I convinced that what I'm seeing is NOT springtails. Could easily be. I think they came with huge amounts of new ground and mulch that was added within feet of the room where all my plants are!! There is a large maple tree that we had added a bed around. To accomplish that, the entire area (on a slope) had to be regraded...taking considerable amount of soil/mulch PLUS large areas needing to be seeded with new grass so now we also had large amounts of straw that was kept constantly moist for the grass seed. Definitely the conditions were right for an invasion of anything that loved moisture and damp soil, etc. We NEVER had these springtails before this project was done, and I NEVER had any of whatever is flying around the plant room and the rest of the house. Coincidence? I doubt it. So I'm still leaning towards the possibility that the plant mix may well have nothing to do with any of this. I'm wondering if perhaps things other than springtails came along with the landscaper's soil as well? End of story. I think I'm done with this thread now. Again...thanks for all the advice and thoughts. I'll report back later in the spring and/or fall.