Worried about granite peninsula support; installer doesn't agree
Hello all,
We just had 85 sq. feet of Antique white granite (mesh-backed) installed on our existing cabinetry (the cabinets look nice and are in good shape). The company we used has a good reputation in our area, they both fabricate and install, and have been in business for 40 years. They also were not the cheapest.
Here's my concern:
I'm worried our peninsula has inadequate support - especially considering we have brittle stone. Our overhang is 12.5", the end of the peninsula is 37.5" wide, and along the front side it's 37" long before it begins a radius inward) From the beginning, the company told us we don't need braces, but would install them if desired. I insisted on it, cited MIA standards and the fact that we have small children, and said I'd gladly pay the extra for peace of mind. So, they ordered and installed three Freedom supports by Federal Brace.
Unfortunately, it appears that at least one of the braces is not even flush with the stone. It's caulked in between, and the caulk is much thicker than the other two supports. I think it's hiding a gap. Considering that, and the fact that there is a large, unsupported corner, I'm worried.
To complicate matters, this seems to be industry standard in my region (Michigan). Prior to choosing the granite company, we had another reputable business provide a quote, and they also said "you don't need supports." Apparently they only install them on half walls, or instances of extreme overhang (14-15"). The "standards" I read about on Houzz seem to be much looser here.
Any suggestions are much appreciated. Reading the wealth of information on here has already helped us immensely (though perhaps made me worry even more, lol).
Thank you!
Comments (15)
millworkman
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
cheri127
6 years agoRelated Discussions
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Comments (20)La koala wrote- "Actually, I'm very intrigued by the idea of this Sink Setter. Do you think it would be viable/helpful in this situation: I want to have a 30 inch undermount single-bowl sink in a 33 inch cabinet. The Ticor description says the sink fits into the cabinet--but I think that the little clips that come with the sink aren't going to work in this case, and the sides of the cabinet will have to be scooped out to allow the sink to fit in the inside. I read somewhere on this forum that scooping the sides reduces the strength of the cabinet, so the support for the sink is less than if you didn't have to scoop the sides. So, do you think the Sink Setter would be a good solution for bracing in that situation?" We are installing a 25" undermount sink into a 24" cabinet-totally pushing it. It requires shaving the sides of the cabinet, and notching the top of the cabinet sides to make space for the flanges. The sink cabinet has been wood-reinforced along the front and back to compensate, and the sides of the next cabinets help too. Like you we don't have room for clips, and little room for many bracing systems. I found out about the sink setter on another forum oriented towards DIYers. We ordered ours online for CAN$28. My engineer husband was very pleased with the design of it because it fully supports the weight of the sink and plumbing - there is no reliance on caulking/epoxy for weight support. Here is a link that might be useful: a DIY thread that I learned a lot from This post was edited by feisty68 on Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 12:53...See MoreSupport for 18 inch Granite Peninsula Overhang
Comments (10)cawfee, I've seen large tables made of 2cm granite, without any plywood. (!) They've never cracked. I've seen many renovators who overkill things, just to be sure. Most do. In fact, they all do. Otherwise things would crack or move later. How many simultaneous dancing 200-pounders do you want to support on your countertop, this is the question. I've seen kitchens that were more solid than the walls and the house. How many future earthquakes and foundation cracks will your house live through before your countertop also cracks, this is the question. At some point you have to let go of the wish to overkill, and call it good enough. This is up to you. Sooner is usually the best time. Otherwise you go crazy trying to do ever better. So, "... Obviously, this needs supports ..." is true, to an extent, but what to do next is up to you , and up to your sense of overkill -- Part 2. "... seen mention of 2x1 rectangular steel pipe as supports (12-16 inches apart)..." Search on the term box girder to reassure yourself about "... rectangular steel pipe..." It's the strongest. For its size. But, this following statement isn't knowledge: "... I know I need to support at least 12 inches of the overhang (13-14 to be safe)..." It's a judgement call or a hunch, like most other rules of thumb. You choose "... plywood sit on top of these metal pipes or are the pipes routed into the plywood..." You choose because it doesn't matter. "... screwed down to the cabinets or is the weight of the slab sufficient to hold them in place..." golly, is the weight of the slab a lot of weight? do you want to drill a hole and screw it down just for greater overkill? -- Here it appears you want to save 0.75": " ... lower profile of the 2x1 over the 1 3/4 ..." I'm not sure what you are referring to. I read a lot. I remember a lot. If I don't know what you are referring to, I'll bet that the other readers also don't. I'll bet that most pro installers don't. I think you need to be more diligent about your descriptions. For your slab, nobody knows " ... how much deflection can granite handle ..." Therefore, nobody knows "... What wall thickness ..." But, in my estimation, there is nothing wrong with getting heavyweight wall thickness tube ("square pipe") since overkill is the objective. But, not much is lost if you get lightweight wall thickness tube. All you lose is a bit of the excess overkill. In Engineering, it's called a margin of safety. But it's the same thing. If you are willing to crack a few slabs under very tightly controlled conditions you will know factually how much weight cracks them (and how much microdeflection they will take). It's just a stone from a quarry. It's not a processed material from a factory made and "scientifically studied" material with "known" properties. Don't ask for answers that won't be good numbers. Anyone can invent a numerical answer for you if keep insisting on having numerical answers. How much overkill is enough? Hard to tell, not seeing anything from my keyboard here. Do you know anything about the flex in your floor? This is a big thing. This is the one thing that I recommend you to go look into before proceeding....See MoreKitchen Peninsula support opinions please
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6 years agobadgergal
6 years agoR H
6 years ago
aprilneverends
6 years agoRon Natalie
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoR H
6 years agoUgh. It gets worse.
Ron Natalie I'm guessing this is not what you have in mind by "solid connection" for the cantilever, right? Pretty sure these blocks of wood will pop right out in the event the granite ever exerts downward force on them. I really had thought they would add 2x4's or similar to add support to the cabinet structure.
Where do I go from here, aside from pulling that portion of the top off, and potentially screwing up a lovely seam and piece of granite? Are there exterior supports that can be used on an arrow-shaped corner? The only ones I found from Federal brace are too large - our corner is about 15"
R H
6 years agoR H
6 years agoR H
6 years ago- PRO
Granite City Services
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