So the usual installment procedure for SS undermounts is epoxy plus clips or brackets done on site?

There are all kinds of "techniques" that guys use -

This is for eveyone reading this - (not just SuzieQ)

Stainless steel sinks that are installed with 2CM thick stone are usually supported from underneath by the plywood subtop layer (I use 5/8" thick ACX grade) The sink is "sandwiched" in between the the plywood and the stone - the sink rests on it's flat flange and holds itself up. I could get in the sink (using this method) and stand in the sink all day long and the sink will not fall down!!!

On 3CM - there is no plywood used as the subtop, and THIS is wjere a lot of guys "just don't get it" (to quote Dr. Evil.....) They seem to think that if they just "epoxy" or "silicone" the sink flange to the underside of the stone - eveything will be OK - Welll, I am here to tell you - No Virginia - It's NOT "OK" ......

an adhesive ALONE is NOT ENOUGH TO HOLD THE WEIGHT OF THE SINK for an extended length of time - like say..... 2 to 5 years

In 3CM applications - clips that can be MECHANICALLY ATTACHED to the stone can be used, Or.. WHat I prefer (and have been using for years without failure (like around the last 15 - ever since I saw these - I started using them)
is the "Sink Setter"

The Sink Setter is a metal frame work that attaches to the cabinet and supports the sink unit from underneath. The sink does not ever fall, the silicone bead between the stone and the sink acts strictly as a waterproofing gasket (as it really only should be) and the Sink Setter supports the weight of the sink, the garbage disposal and the associated plumbing - ALL exerting downward force on the sink bowl.......

Sink Setters can and should be used on all CAST IRON and COMPOSITE sinks as well - not just limited to SS......

If your fabricator wants you to accept sinks that are merely "glued" to the underside of the stone (using epoxy or silicone - I'd find a new fabricator, or insist that he uses Sink Setters on your project..

BTW - This is NOT a shameless brazen plug for the Sink Setter - I receive no compensation or benefits from sharing this with all of you.

AND..... (not trying to be self promoting) As an active Fabrcator for the last 26 going on 27 years, I HAVE been using them (for at least) over 15 years, and have NEVER had a sink fall - LOT'S of HAPPY CUSTOMERS though...... so consider what I'm sharing here as food for thought

hth

kevin

ditto.

It always needs a cross brace, which holds itself on the cabinet sides. This goes for lightwight sinks like Stainless Steel undermounts, or heavyweight sinks. After many years, a glue is not enough. ((Epoxy is a great glue, but stainless is one of the hardest things to stick to.))

Any cross brace will do.

A homemade cross brace made of scrap wood will be fine. One made of steel too. In either case, remember that it gets attached to the cabinet at both ends. The cabinet's side panels. This is the important thing. The cabinet is now holding the brace up. The brace is a straight thingie. It is held up in the air by it being attached to the cabinet. The brace is holding the sink up, because the brace itself is firmly being held up in the air at the right height to support the sink rim.

One brace is good. Two braces, even better.

Dave -

I used to use wood braces back in 1985 and until the Sink Setter came out - wood braces is what I used to support the sink from underneath......

I like the fact that you can do fine height adjustments to the sink "set" AFTER th tops are set - using the leveling screws....

I'm shooting a video tha will illustrate this for folks - it should be up on my website and on Youube by the end of this week......

Here is a link that might be useful: Sink Setter Web Site

I agree that an official product is a great thing to have.

But, there are thousands or millions who won't believe they can build their own at the last minute, UNLESS you write it out. This is serious. So, Kevin, please agree that one can also build one's own brace. One can shim the level too, if it needs that.

I like the product TOO. It is good. It is great. Long live the product. If you have the time to get it, go ahead and get it. If you don't have it on hand, go ahead without it: it's not so incredible as to be a requirement.

Hth

"f you don't have it on hand, go ahead without it: it's not so incredible as to be a requirement...."
UM.... YEAH - IT IS !!! IMHO

Re-Read the line in my last post - "I like the fact that you can do fine height adjustments to the sink "set" AFTER th tops are set - using the leveling screws...." WHY in GOD'S NAME would you want to use Wood versus a system (that only costs around $30 bucks) like the Sink Setter that affords you a finite means of upward and downward vertical adjustment? The difference is like driving a Mercedes Benz - versus a "covered wagon" - to quote Dr. Evil....

"Ya just... don't... get it - Do Ya? No, Ya Don't"

Also - NO. I wont agree that a FABRICATOR - a REAL FABRICATOR worth his salt - wont use the best ingredients to make the BEST application possible. You're saying basically then - screw really good stuff - just use crap if you dont have good support elements.....

Wood brace for a DIY'er ? (that does not know any better? - OK - I'll give you that one..... but for a PRO ? With all of the new technology that's available to me here in 2011 ? I'll keep using Sink Setters for MY customers - Thank You very Much !!! LOL

All a REAL fabricator has to do is freakin ORDER ONE when he lands the job, or order a few for stock and use them as he does his installs - this Aint Rocket Science!!! Places like Braxton-Bragg & Granquartz AND Defusco ALL Stock these products for guys like me that actually make a living doing this......

I prefer being professional and using professional in lieu of Janky DIY Wood Suports & Shims - The sink setter already is designed to make my life WAY easier than going back to the old wood method...... Why go back to walking when I'm already driving?

Your analogy is like saying - never mind getting an iPhone4 - just use the old "Brick Phone" from the 90's - The technology has changed

As for me - I want the best for my customers - THAT is why I recommend Sink Setters AND USE THEM EVERY WEEK

It's a lot easier having NOT to re-invent the wheel !!!!

best

k

All good points, but useless too.

There are many ways to light a fire when you go camping.
You don't need to purchase an official fire-starter product.

Before this fine-tuning ability of this sinksetting cross brace came onto the market...
people DID manage to construct a cross brace very well.

Yeah, it's great. I haven't dismissed it.
Let all readers beware: any fabricator worth his salt will already have it with him...
and if you don't see him installing it, well, you don't have a fabricator worth his salt. Useless.

Davidtroll-

That's your opinion Bro - "Useless" to you since you're NOT a Fabricator......

All I can say is - "whatever dude" - with an attitude like yours - you'll get EATEN ALIVE in my world

Actually, I'm very intrigued by the idea of this Sink Setter.

Do you think it would be viable/helpful in this situation: I want to have a 30 inch undermount single-bowl sink in a 33 inch cabinet. The Ticor description says the sink fits into the cabinet--but I think that the little clips that come with the sink aren't going to work in this case, and the sides of the cabinet will have to be scooped out to allow the sink to fit in the inside. I read somewhere on this forum that scooping the sides reduces the strength of the cabinet, so the support for the sink is less than if you didn't have to scoop the sides.

So, do you think the Sink Setter would be a good solution for bracing in that situation?

la koala -

Your sink base is tight for the sink size - and your sink may be too big for the cabinet - you will have to physically check the "fit" before you or your Fabricator actually does the install.

I just did a kitchen that had a "tight" sink fit to the base cab, it was tight - but it worked... this one was a double bowl though - so your situation may work.

Be careful when thinking about "scooping out" the side stiles of the cabinet - you will weaken the overall assembly - and this is not what the cabinets were designed for.....

Bottom lne IMHO you may either need a smaller sink or a larger cabinet base

either way - I'd use the Sink Setter - for obvious reasons......

hth

kevin

Kevin: Yes, David would not make a good living as a professional fabricator. That wasn't his point. His point was to say that Hey, if you were smart and prepared and read GW, go buy yourself a Sink Setter a few weeks before you install your sink. (Looks like a fantastic product, and I did not know it existed, and I am grateful to have learned about it in enough time for my install.) However, if you don't have one, do the next-best thing and provide the support to the sink that the Sink Setter is meant to provide (which was the OP's question) using a site-built support.
Note that this is not a forum for fabricators only. It is wonderful that we are learning from your expertise. However, please don't dismiss the VALID opinions of DIY'ers on the mere basis that they would not be able to make money as a pro. Most of us, obviously, have no intention of going pro, and are just looking for ways to construct a decent kitchen, generally trading time for money. Personally, I am doing my kitchen the way I want to; it is clear to me that a pro would lose money using my approach. The more I can learn from people like you, the better. The more I can learn from people like David, the better.

Davidtroll-
That's your opinion Bro - "Useless" to you since you're NOT a Fabricator......

All I can say is - "whatever dude" - with an attitude like yours - you'll get EATEN ALIVE in my world

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you should realize that David is not in your world. Rather, you are in David's.

Davidtroll's world???? - ROFLMOL

Jeez Loo-Eeez !!!

Hey = that's YOUR Opinion Babe ..... LOL

Really you two kill me !!!!!

Just TOOOOOO Funny !!!!

Thank you Angie_DIY for carrying the ball!
Thank you Kevin for pointing out the advantages of the Sink Setter!

We've learned a few things. One thing worth noting is that DIY as a class are getting stronger all the time. Many are their own GC. They are at that level in terms of "general" ability to handle the million dilemmas that arise. I see it as a DIY class who know what's what. It seems to be a class that is growing in size. They can be highly versed in the tradeoffs of quality and competence.

We've also seen that this pro is unable to come to an agreement when it's offered to him. 2ndly, he can be less and less articulate while he indulges in excess use of capitals and punctuation, akin to bullying. I understand why the terms of use in this forum ask one not to use capitals and punctuation to emphasize one's point.

Hth

I guess we'll all just have to agree to "disagree" - Not trying to be "self promoting" here (as you have accused me of being in the past - that's why I always put that little line in there Dave - JUST for YOU !!! LOL)

Bullying ??? - Hardly...

Had a bad day at the shop yesterday, and maybe it came out on my side in this thread - but when I am right - I'm right, and 27 years of doing countertops certainly qualifies anyone for their opinion based on experience..... IMHO

Remember that "Opinions" are like A-HOLES.... Everyone HAS ONE but you DON'T have to BE ONE when expressing yours - And If I have "been" one expressing mine - well.. forgive me please everyone

I'm sure that I will not have the "last word" on this, and since this thread is about "worrying about SS sinks that are possibly NOT installed right" (OP) - I'll have to lay my opinion out there and leave it at that Bro !!!

Gotta go fab some granite now..........

"Yeah, it's great. I haven't dismissed it.
Let all readers beware: any fabricator worth his salt will already have it with him...
and if you don't see him installing it, well, you don't have a fabricator worth his salt. Useless."

Kevin, David didn't mean that the Sink Setter is useless -- he was agreeing with you: if you have a professional who refuses to use a Sink Setter, that professional is useless.

You are in agreement, you just don't realize it.

Here's a shot of our brace, built by our carpenter who was blithely unaware of Sink Setters. We could stand and jump in the sink if we really wanted to:

The granite installer I have used for many years cuts pockets in the underside of 3/4 inch stone to take the heads of 1/4-20 bolts (think 'keyhole' shaped).

The bolts are slid in, then sink clips, washers, locking hardware, then nuts.

The split lock washers provide a good indication the nut has been tightened but help limit over-tightening.

2-3 fasteners on each side of a sink do well.

Kevin: I am sorry you had a bad day the other day, and I hope your fabbing goes well today. But, in the future, please do not call me "Babe." I find it demeaning.

I had my sink repaired today and the fabricator used a new product called Cinclips! He had my sink back in and hooked up in 15 minutes and said we could use it right away. There was no wait time! Do you know how happy my wife was. I recommend you check them out for yourself. Cinclips.com has more info for you.

La koala wrote-
"Actually, I'm very intrigued by the idea of this Sink Setter.

Do you think it would be viable/helpful in this situation: I want to have a 30 inch undermount single-bowl sink in a 33 inch cabinet. The Ticor description says the sink fits into the cabinet--but I think that the little clips that come with the sink aren't going to work in this case, and the sides of the cabinet will have to be scooped out to allow the sink to fit in the inside. I read somewhere on this forum that scooping the sides reduces the strength of the cabinet, so the support for the sink is less than if you didn't have to scoop the sides.

So, do you think the Sink Setter would be a good solution for bracing in that situation?"

We are installing a 25" undermount sink into a 24" cabinet-totally pushing it. It requires shaving the sides of the cabinet, and notching the top of the cabinet sides to make space for the flanges. The sink cabinet has been wood-reinforced along the front and back to compensate, and the sides of the next cabinets help too.

Like you we don't have room for clips, and little room for many bracing systems. I found out about the sink setter on another forum oriented towards DIYers. We ordered ours online for CAN$28. My engineer husband was very pleased with the design of it because it fully supports the weight of the sink and plumbing - there is no reliance on caulking/epoxy for weight support.

Here is a link that might be useful: a DIY thread that I learned a lot from

This post was edited by feisty68 on Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 12:53