I'm not speaking of Rev. Graham at all, but of other men who may adopt this.....belief system or whatever it is. Like Pence or any other believer.

rhizo, it would be impossible. Meetings, meals and travel with women colleagues, clients and others became only more and more common in my career as the years went on and a good thing that was too. Funny, I never came close to having a problem keeping my hands to myself and/or my pants on.

I don't think those who share this view live in the real world anyway. Women as temptresses a reasonable person can't resist? Seriously? Maybe some of these extremists would be more comfortable if women were required to wear burqas as elsewhere in the world, to keep down the irresistible temptations their appearances otherwise cause?

This numb-nuts idea started with Graham, why not single him out for starting and, worse, espousing such a ridiculous practice?

Franklin Graham said when he heard the news of his father's death he was in disbelief, but not out of grief.

"I kinda chuckled because my father said years ago, 'When you hear that Billy Graham is dead don't you believe it for a second'," Graham said. "He said: 'I'll be more alive than ever before.'"

"We rejoice because his suffering is over and he is in God's presence."

He also said he and his family never saw his father as a different person, even though he was revered around the world and preached to an estimated 215 million people in 185 countries during his life, with his message reaching millions more as he maintained a near-constant presence on radio, television and the internet.

"The Billy Graham that the world saw on TV or saw on the big screen was the same Billy Graham we saw at home. He wasn't two people," he said.

Graham's body will arrive at the Billy Graham Training Center in Asheville on Thursday. On Saturday, a private family prayer service will take place and a motorcade will transport the body to the Billy Graham headquarters in Charlotte, Graham spokesperson Mark DeMoss said.

The body will lie in repose at the Graham Family Homeplace with a closed casket from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on at least Monday and Tuesday but that could be extended, he said. The private funeral service will be held on March 2 under a tent in front of the Billy Graham Library.

NBC News

rhizo sorry I was not clear. I was posting about Pence not Graham. For Graham it should have been fairly easy because of the business he was in.

Glenda....When is his casket in the Capital rotunda ?

Congressional leadership announced last week that it would commemorate the life of evangelist Billy Graham by having him lie in honor this Wednesday, a rare accolade for any American and an official embrace of the religious leader from the halls of government.

Thanks, Glenda! In my humble opinion, no one deserves it more than Dr. Graham!

Elmer, your terminology is not acceptable for this thread. Have some respect for those who have revered this man.

Glenda, I apologize for my part....I honestly forgot the original meaning of this post. I am sincerely sorry.

Yes rhizo, I see. Disagreement but not disrespect was intended. The discussion took a turn. Thanks for pointing that out.

Remembering Billy Graham (1918 – 2018)

No, and I truly regret that I never heard him speak in person. Since I'm a North Carolinian, I had opportunities, and now that chance is gone.

watch them on tv sometimes growing up.

I've been to the Billy Graham Library -- very interesting place! -- and I hadn't been aware until then that radio and TV was really what made Billy Graham into the worldwide evangalist that he was. He was the first pastor to realize that radio and TV could be used to reach an audience larger than could fit into a tent revival.

I suspect my father attended a few as he was Graham's body guard back in the 40s and/or 50s.

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that people would drive up into the Graham's yard -- even come onto their porch and look in the windows -- trying to meet him. Also, one of his big themes was that Jesus is for everyone -- black, white, whatever -- and that made some people angry; he wasn't specifically involved in the Civil Rights movement, but he was in sync with the concept. Yeah, I can see him needing a body guard.

IMO, Billy Graham was far more influential than any pope.

I agree, though not being Catholic, it's possible that I am ignorant on the subject. I do admire the current pope because he seems to understand what it's like to be an ordinary person. I think he's a bit like BIshop Myriel.

He was before anything else a self-promoter. Believe it or ignore it, there was a dark and hypocritical side to this man, much of which was known in his heyday and is well documented. .

Eh, by the time I was aware of him, he was already middle aged and very much a public figure, but I don't really see the self-promoter thing. Yes, he was in the limelight, but he seems always to emphasize that his message is the gospel.

Yes, like all of us, he made plenty of mistakes. If I remember from visiting his Library, he became overly embroiled in politics a couple times and realized it was a mistake -- that is, it did not further his message, and it did not glorify God. So he stepped away from that arena.

However, I've heard that he wasn't particularly a good family man /father because he put his work first.

Any thoughts about the so-called "Billy Graham Rule" followed by VP Pence - to avoid meetings, meals, or travel if alone with women? That's why Pence's wife is always at his side. Words to live by or a shockingly extremist view? I think it's so far out as to be laughable.

That's a Southern Baptist standard.

How on earth does a man who abides by this rule function in the business world? What if his employer or supervisor is a woman? What if he has to share an office with a female? What if he has to travel to a conference with a woman? What if his police partner is a woman? What if he is appointed as a research assistant to a female scientist? What if his doctor, therapist, or pastor is replaced by a woman?

I'm curious, to say the least.

Presumably a man in these situations would be in public places, places where he could at any moment be seen by others; for example, two people working together in an office or a conference room aren't really "private". The idea is that other people cannot "get the wrong idea" and/or cannot make false accusations.

If a few more politicians and Hollywood types adhered to this standard, we wouldn't have nearly so many nasty stories about inappropriate behavior.

Incidentally, we teachers live by a similar standard. We are never, never alone with a student behind a closed door. If a student is making up a test or comes in after school for help, we ALWAYS keep the door open and position ourselves so that we are very visible from the door. It's just too easy for a student to make up a story about something inappropriate happening.

The body will lie in repose at the Graham Family Homeplace with a closed casket from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on at least Monday and Tuesday

Just in case anyone's interested: Billy Graham was raised on a dairy farm near Charlotte, NC. The farmhouse in which he was raised was moved to the Billy Graham Library, so I think the "family homeplace" and the place where he will be buried are one and the same.

His wife, who has been dead about a decade, is already buried outside the Library. Her gravestone reads "Under Construction". Apparently she was stuck in traffic one day, saw the phrase, and thought it was appropriate for a Christian -- we're not perfect, but we should try to improve ourselves, so we are "under construction".

Oh Mrs Pete , thank you for sharing this post! I love Ruth's headstone wording...yes, we are all under construction as we pass through this world making our way to our next residence.

Graham was a wonderful man. He appealed to many people, no matter the religious divide. I never saw him in person, but his ministry was based in my town for a long time. In light of the Catholic discussion above (and no, Catholics "first" allegiance is not to the Pope as someone stated), here's a recent article by a friend, an evangelical minister, now Catholic priest.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/longenecker/billy-graham-all-things-to-all-men

Emory, (or other Catholics here) were you taught your first loyalty is to the Church or a Constitution? If not, what was taught? IMO this view is not offensive, nor does it exclude loyalty or defense of one's country, governments, country's constitutions change but loyalty to the Church doesn't (or needn't).

Of course, one may abandon their faith, but that isn't under discussion.

This Catholic never was told to make a loyalty choice. Teachings were just never framed that way-in terms of allegiance. We learned catechism, doctrine, dogma, sacraments, the gospel, the Mass.

I'm not sure where this paradigm comes from. Seems like it might apply more to Quakers.

"as someone who has had a positive influence on literally millions of people through media, Billy Graham is also a reminder to us in the entertainment industry of the tremendous power the media can have on society and, most importantly, our responsibility to use it for the good."

Kirk Cameron

No, I never saw him in person but always hoped to someday. I have very fond memories of me & my Mom watching together whenever he was on TV.

I was very humbled watching the services as he was brought up lie in honor in our nation's Capitol this morning.

I don't want to go off topic but it keeps coming up -- Cathollic loyalty to the Pope.

Many of us were there when Kennedy was running for President. There had never been a Catholic President. In my Midwestern city, I worked in an office where 70 percent of the employees were Catholic. I'd say the majority voted for Kennedy. During that period there was a thing called 'The Index' It was a reading list of books prohibited to Catholics and it was taken seriously by most in that office. There was and is a range of Catholic factions I guess you'd call them. What I want to say is, that where things like The Index are taken seriously it's not so crazy if some people suspect that a Catholic President might put the Pope over his duties. I personally didn't and don't take it seriously but people do forget the real tenor or the times.

The Rev. Billy Graham lay in honor under the Capitol Rotunda Wednesday -- becoming just the fourth private citizen in U.S. history to receive that distinction.

Trump said the late evangelist's message was clear, that everywhere Graham went, he taught the same "beautiful" message: "God loves you."

"The testimony is endless," Trump said. "Today, we give thanks for this extraordinary life. And it's very fitting that we do so right here in the rotunda of the United States Capitol, where the memory of the American people is enshrined. Here in this room, we remember America is a nation sustained by prayer."

Trump recalled that his father, Fred Trump, once took him to see Graham at New York City's Yankee Stadium -- and told the story of the pastor's own conversion, which happened in 1934 when Graham's father allowed a group of North Carolina businessmen to use a portion of the family's dairy farm for a day of prayer.

"On that day... they prayed the Lord would raise up someone to preach the Gospel to the ends of the Earth," Trump said. "Billy Graham was just 15 years old at the time. Just a few months later, he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. ... That North Carolina farm boy walked out of those fields into a great and beautiful history."

Trump described Graham as ambassador for Christ, who reminded the world of the power of prayer and the gift of God's grace.

It was an impressive ceremony..thanks glenda for your sharing this. Billy was a true ambassador for Christ. May we all learn from his example. Heaven knows this world needs more love right now!

It's touching to hear that Trump's deeply ingrained religious beliefs and experiences have guided him through a lifetime of moral and ethical conduct.

Elmer, some sentiments are best unspoken. Billy Graham was important to many fine people, some of whom are sharing their sadness here.

rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Elmer, your terminology is not acceptable for this thread. Have some respect for those who have revered this man.

Glenda, I apologize for my part....I honestly forgot the original meaning of this post. I am sincerely sorry.

My comment was about Trump's hypocrisy. And indirectly to question why someone would welcome and not reject anything he would say at this time that's solemn for Graham's sincere followers. I said nothing at all about Graham, I'm not sure why that isn't clear.

Elmer....don't even start...didn't you learn anything about what part you played in a post yesterday?....enough is enough of your snide remarks! And I am sure I am not the only one that is feeling this way!

I don't usually get involved in these conversations because it's a worthless battle but I'm curious Elmer, since you base all your arguments on facts, how can you call President Trump hypocritical? How could you possibly know what's in his heart or anyone else's for that matter?

Georgysmom, I think a person's conduct is a window into their values, don't you? I've never known or been exposed to a person whose history includes such a long litany of consistent lying, dirty dealing and philandering to the extent his does, have you? And all of this has continued while he's been in the White House.

Isn't "hypocritical" a good word to use for such an unscrupulous person's praise of a religious figure whose values he OBVIOUSLY had no respect or personal affinity for and that he didn't follow?

Here's one that I found that goes the other way, Graham's granddaughter (whose husband is a pastor) slamming fellow Evangelicals for praising Trump:

Evangelical leaders called hypocritical for praising Trump

Elmer, keep to the topic of this post. No more blah, blah, blah.

I was asked a question (to explain my comment) and I answered it.

I have never attended a graham meeting but I have heard his daughter Ruth preach and she is fantastic. I was very discouraged to learn that BG's views of women would not let her take over his ministry although she fought hard for it. Sadly, BG felt that only men could preach and be effective. I have a neighbor that retired from the ministry and was thoroughly disgusted in BG's views on the female sex. May he rest in peace until She resurrects him.

As a side note, I am very upset that Trump can find the time to attend BG funeral but not make time for the funerals of the victims of the Parkland shooting, just a few blocks from Maralago.

I have no idea who he is! It sounds like he was a pretty popular persona though, based on this thread.

I've never attended one of his crusades in person but I know I've seen every one that was televised. I'm not sure that it's that we venerate Dr. Graham as much as we do the gift he offered on behalf of Jesus Christ. We love him for that.

I hope you recognize and respect that in the US, those who share the beliefs of his particular religious denomination are far outnumbered by those who don't. Those who don't share your views hopefully recognize and respect your right to them. As I do.

>> I have no idea who he is! It sounds like he was a pretty popular persona though, based on this thread.

Chi - you mean that you have no idea who Billy Graham is (was)?

Suzieque, yes, I had never heard of him before this thread!

Chi - what country are you in? He's held crusades in countries all around the world, back since the 50s. Of course, he hasn't done that in the last decade or 2. However, his son Franklin has Samaritan's Purse which goes to and helps in disasters all around the world, and has also been in charge of the BG ministries for many years now.

Ann is very vocal in teaching about Christ in her own way. I've heard her many times.

You wouldn't think that he wasn't a 'good family man' -

that isn't what one hears by the words of any of his children. Each of them spoke at the service at the Library location last Friday. I watched that on TV - it was wonderful. BG has a surviving sister who spoke also. She is doing awesome for the age she must be now, and was the 1st of the family to speak at the service... great 'BG stories' (and lessons) from all of them.

The BG crusades are still available to watch on the TBN channel. I often see them listed. Just check the TBN program guide if you want to see one. I know i saw one listed just last night.

dark side - I've never heard anything like that, in the 6 decades since I first remember watching him on TV.

having been raised catholic, we were taught that our 1st loyalty was to the RCC / pope. the CCC says catholics are to 'submit' to the pope.

I left the RCC many, many decades ago.

desertsteph, I'm in the US. California, to be specific.

I'm curious, too, about how someone in this country can escape knowing who Billy Graham was. Perhaps Chi is very young? Even if someone grew up without access to a TV, or newspapers, or magazines, or computers, one would think that Graham would somehow make a blip on the radar. Unless one is quite young.

I'm not criticizing Chi in anyway, just genuinely interested.

Good friend from Georgia worked for Billy as he got older.

Easy to escape who he was if you are not religious. Like many names in all of the things listed unless you are interested in a religious speaker you would just not read or see any of those things mentioned. Almost any time a person starts talking or writing about religion I tune them out. When younger I did laugh at the late night religious speakers on the radio especially since most were asking for donations to carry on "The Cause". No thank you.

that's appropriate because during the 1960 presidential campaign, Graham said "that if John F. Kennedy were a true Catholic, he would be a president more loyal to the pope than to the Constitution". That's pretty offensive and bigoted, don't you think?

Google JFK fear catholic and pope. Southerners had little knowledge of Catholics in the 50 and 60, few lived in the south. I grew up in the only catholic family in our town. Graham views were common in that time period.

Rhizo, I'm in my early 30's (born in the 80's) so not too young. I have never watched a preacher on TV and I have not spent much time in church. My family, friends and community are not religious, or at least not to the point it ever comes up in conversation.

I've heard of Joel Osteen though if that helps! Mostly from the internet and from when someone gave my mom a book of his. I was puzzled as neither she nor the gift giver were religious but then I saw the middle was carved out and it held some products for my mom to use in her cancer battle! Back before it was legal in many states.

I know how you feel though. I was talking to a 21 year old friend and he had no idea who Whitney Houston was. I couldn't understand how someone in the US and born in the 90's had never even heard of her so I guess it's all relative.

Graham became a powerful pastor long before your time, so that explains it, really. He was 99 years old and hadn't been in the public eye for a very long time. Those of us in our 60s and above have memories of him, whether we are religious or not. It's interesting.

rhizo, with all due respect, I don't agree with you. I'm in my 60s too and while I've heard the name and have done some searches since his death, I have no "memories" of him. I don't believe Graham ever had much of a following in California. Religion here in general has long been on the wane and during my lifetime has not broadly been as big a part of people's lives as I've seen it seems to be in other parts of the country.

I don't know if chi has lived a long time in California but her age (from the other thread) would put her in the middle of my kids' age range. I can tell you for sure none of them has heard of Graham either.

He did several crusades in California but I think that may have been in the 50's and 60's

California crusades post 1960: 1971, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1983, 1995, 1997, 2001, 2004

I found a Wikipedia page with his history. Whether having only one stop in a particular year (as it was for several of the listed years) is significant doesn't matter. My own recollection is clear. He never seemed to have a large group of followers nor attract much attention here through those years listed. Your experience seems to differ, maybe we were in different parts of the state.