You need to hire a kitchen designer.

Do you have a diagram with your layout? It would help people answer your question better.

Kim....thanks....Simple layout L shape. For the island, The 80" I would like to seat 3 and the other side of the 80" I would like big drawers.

the 48" side I would like to seat 2.......But I am now thinking 48" is not enough to seat 2?.? If not I will have to think this over.

48" on the short side is fine for two seats. The NKBA recommends 24" elbow room per person, so 80" on the longer side will not be sufficient for three seats. You'd need 15" for knee room for the seats on the short side, since that is the minimum recommended for comfortable seating at counter height, then at least 72" for three seats, for 87" on the longer side. If you use two 36" wide drawer bases, plus 1" overhang on the short side with no seat, that would be 88". You might be able to squeeze the seating on the long side to 85", or one 36" drawer base and one 33" drawer base.

Oh I see the light now. Thanks mama goose! So my next question to you is can I make this work at 82" long side to sit 3 if I cheat on the overhang and change it to 12" instead of 15"? Most people don't sit that close to the table do they?

Why should base drawers be not more than 36" as a general rule? Thx.

Mamma goose:. If I go wider on the 48" side, would that help and allow me to sit 3 on the 80" side? Thx!

Thank you Jan. So I will not have the end cabinet, just a gable there then.

My layout is not that different from the kitchen above, just swap the window and cook top placements where the short end is I have a walkway and where the three stools are, that is backing onto the family room, open concept there. Still can see a definite division BC there is a big beam up the ceiling where the kitchen ends and the family begins.

if 80" is a tight squeeze I can do 82" on that side. How much more inches would I need on the 48" side to accomodate 2 stools? Increasing to 60" will be pushing it a bit for me BC I would like to keep 60" behind the island where there are seatings as they both back onto walkways. And Where would the steel be? Thx.

You are OVER thinking the entire thing. You do need support under any overhang, and it should be discussed with contractor/fabricator and final layout in hand and before a final template. Please get a KD to consider this...within the entirety of your kitchen. 48 x 80 is that,, no matter how you turn it. Two inches will not matter....... at all.

This island looks very much like ours. We have cabinets under the squared off section, and 4 stools under the curved part. We also have a " leg" under the curved section.

You need support for the stone, and room for the required electrical outlets built into the design. They take up room that has to go into the math too.

Thank you all. But how I came to the conclusion of 60" walkway is that was what was required if you have seating and a walkway behind that. Read this on Houzz. And I do have this situation from a continuation of. Hallway going behind the 48-60" side.

btw, would increasing the length on the 48" side allow me to have less than the 88" that mamma goose suggested in her drawing for seating 3 people.

thx.

This is just one!!!! part of the kitchen. Post the entire first floor at 1/4 inch. I can say from experience, rarely will more than four perch at an island to dine. ps.... If everyone is dining , nobody is walking. !! Meaning 54 inches versus 60 won't mean death. A perfect dining island for five has little storage and is THREE sides of seating and is 48 X 60 just in seating' Give up storage? No I doubt you want to do that. In other words, put the drawers ( a single of 36 and 12 on the short side in other words you can't have everything

Thanks Jan. Your are right. But my goal is to have two sides of seating only and wondering if I can get away with approx 80" on one side and the minimum length on the the short side to allow for 2 people seating. What might this mimimim length be?

I don't really have to worry too much on storage but the maximum i can have is only on two side of seating, on one long side and on one short side, or else I will get in the way of the sink area and get in the way of the cooking area.

Woe is me! Thx.

Woe is a CHOICE. It depends the people and the seating selection. Either get pro KD help for ALL the space, or live with the size as you have determined. Five people can not comfortably fit at an island this size unless you lose some storage. Five children on narrow stools may be fine. Go tape it on the floor, and tape off the seating space, and drag home a cheap/backless stool. There are no more answers and you are just re inventing a wheel over single inches which will make no difference. "Goals" don't always align with available space. ......tape it off on the floor, ANY floor.. Get a stool. Or five. Or make a cardboard template for the other four. Or make five cardboard templates at no more than 15"..............." Or stay in "woe" mode. : )

Thank you for the suggestion of using stools to try this all out. ok will look for 15" stool and do 12" overhang pretend space. Someone on another thread said that they have 5' X 7' island and got seating for 5 using two size only.

my L kitchen is 17.5' with a 3' walkway through this side and 13.5' on the short side. I just didn't want the island to be too massive for a kitchen this size.

You really need 42 inches between island and appliances for comfort,,,,,,,and you could solve ALL of this with a KD. I'm out: ) lol

Thanks Jan. Sorry I was not clear, I do have 48" around the island, the 36" walkway is behind the short side which I have added 48" on top of that measurement ...so I have 60" in total for that walkway behind the short side.

36 and 48 are not 60.....they are 84. You sure don't need ...................tape the darn thing out.

Oops! I meant 60" in total is what I had allowed for. The woe is getting to me so I can't even add now ! Hahahaha. Will do the taping. Thx.

You'll want your countertop for the island in one piece. Check with your kitchen place or top fabricator as to the maximum width and length you can have without requiring a seam. In my area, granite runs about 48" wide and 110" long. Some quartz products come in extra wide sheets. Investigate before you settle on a design.

"...I do have 48" around the island, the 36" walkway is behind the short
side which I have added 48" on top of that measurement ...so I have 60"
in total for that walkway behind the short side."

Huh? I've read this several times and still can't understand what you're saying. Maybe I need more coffee....

A
drawing would clear this all up. It doesn't have to be fancy or to
scale. You do, however, need to provide dimensions; doorways, windows,
wall, appliances, aisles, island, etc.

In the meantime, here are the NKBA recommendations:

42" work aisles for a one cook kitchen (what we GWers call a one-butt kitchen)

48" work aisles for a two cook kitchen (two butt)

36" for walkways (non working aisles)

44" seating aisle. This allows people to walk behind people seated at the counter

60" back to back seating aisles. IOW, if your island seating is across from table seating.

15" deep seating overhang. If you and your family are tall, you might be more comfortable with 18" seating overhang. Talk to your fabricator about how to support the counter.

You can adjust your aisles accordingly but do mock ups to make sure that if you make them several inches narrower than recommended, that it won't hinder function.

btw, you don't need to add aisle widths. If you're provided a 44" aisle behind seating, you don't need to add another 36" to that. "So my next question to you is can I make this work at 82" long side to
sit 3 if I cheat on the overhang and change it to 12" instead of 15"?

Do you plan to use the counter seating for meals? Or just for hanging out for brief periods? Who's going to sit there? Adults or children (keep in mind that children grow into adults)?

Sure, you can reduce the seating depth from 15" to 12" but that will affect how comfortable the seating is for adults or for longer periods of time and could affect how functional the seating is. Have you ever sat on a stool at a bar with a shallow overhang? People generally either sit farther away from the bar or turn their stool sideways so that they have room for their legs. Mock it up and see how well it will function for you and adjust accordingly.

Ditto for stool size. Small stools are good for small people but uncomfortable for almost everyone else. Do the sit test.

Planning on paper is fine but it has to also function IRL.

Do you absolutely have to have 5 seats at the island?

Lisa...thank you. Sorry about the poor math! Lol.

Well, I have a walkway of 36" walkway continuing from down the hallway into this kitchen. If I only allow 44" in total, the seating butts might interfere with people going up and down the walkway, to the bathroom and the other parts of this rancher.......this kitchen is open concept to a family. 60" allowance for behind seating in this situation might be too much??

So my kitchen is sandwiched between a family room and the rest of the house. I have two entrances, one at each end of the long side which is facing the street. It is a corner lot 60' X 120', built on the long side.

Unless you and your family are larger than average, a 44" aisle behind counter seats is sufficiently wide enough for people to walk behind people seated at the counter provided that the seating overhang is a sufficient depth so people aren't scooting father away from the island to sit comfortably.

We have 42" between our table and our island (without seating) for the main aisle through our kitchen. It's never been a problem for us. Ever. We knew this would work because we used to have only a 40" aisle. I would love wider aisles but my kitchen is modestly sized so it is what it is. But I wouldn't recommend my aisle widths to someone who has room for more general aisles or without mocking it up to make sure a less than recommended aisle will work for them.

Are you measuring your aisles as counter to counter or cabinet to cabinet? If the latter, your aisle widths will be 3" narrower IRL because counter overhang is generally 1 1/2". Your planned 42" aisle will end up as only 39" wide.

If you have a standard size fridge, your aisle between counter and fridge door will be even narrower because a SD fridge is deeper than standard cabinet and counter depths. That planned 42" cab to cab aisle that will be 39" IRL will be closer to 31 1/2" between counter and SD fridge, which is NOT enough room to move the fridge into place or move it out when it needs repairs or replacement.

If you want our assistance, PLEASE provide a measured drawing. We can help you work through possibilities, which you can take to a KD to finalize and address any site issues that we won't know without being in the space.

If you aren't willing to do that, then you *really* need to hire a KD asap. There are too many details that affect function for a neophyte to manage without professional assistance. Kitchens cost a helluva lot of money; it would be a shame to spend $$ and time and end up with a kitchen that doesn't function well.

nsc6, to answer the question you asked me, technically you'd need 63" of depth to put two seats on the short end, and three seats on the longer end of an 80" long island. but I think you could manage with 60". However, for support I'd suggest using legs and an apron, and make it look like a work table/island. You could also add a 21" wide drawer base on the end without seating, and a 39 x 21 cabinet on the back for extra storage of items not used often--think canner, turkey roaster and other holiday items.

As was mentioned in another post, you'd need to consider slab size.

You'd have 28" where I drew the 27" wide cabinet, but 27" is a more common size--unless you are using a custom cabinetmaker. Same for 40" vs 39".

NKBA guidelines, #'s 6 through 9

It's clear we have a non believer op. Her primary concern is number of stools.

She will remain unconvinced of anything until she lays this out on a floor via a template and stool templates .....WITH her desired storage marked on the cardboard. ... As unusable seating space. If an island already exists... simply set this atop it.

All must be considered with selection of surface and slab size

Mamma goose...thank you very much for the inside island layout. This is so wonderful! I couldn't wrap my head around the inner layout till you had expertly put it down like that. Thank you!!! Now I will still have that 15" knee space.

So if I understand your info the long side can be 80" as long as I have at least 60" for the short side to accomplish seating for 3+ 2.

i will pick a slab that comes in max 60" wide, so that is good.

Thanks Jan M, I will do the mock up. The kitchen is just a space, had been like that for a long time, since he took the old kitchen down....but he passed away before doing anything else, and I just did not want to deal with anything for the longest time. I am cooking downstairs small nice white kitchen with no island. But now time to do something.

Thank you Lisa. My fridge is counter depth. I was measuring for allowance from counter to counter of 48". While we are not big people we just like bigger spaces around us.

You got the layout of my kitchen right on...wow...that is what it would it look like! I only have an iPad to work from so I can not expand your diagram to see your numbers for the walkways....but going from the hallway of 36" at the top clockwise, side (1) where there will be 2 seats 60", side (2) where there are 3 seats, 48" which is 36" from kitchen side and 12" from family room side, side (3) where the sink is, 48"and back to the side (4) where the cooking happens, 48".

seeing as most don't think I will need 60" for walkway there, I guess i am at liberty to go 84" on the long side if I needed to. But 60" walkway feels nice.

question...any foreseeable problem with taking 36" on kitchen side then adding 12" on family room side to make up to 48"? Open concept so that the add on 12" taking from the family room side is not a problem.

i really don't know how to draw a diagram with the iPad. :(

"i really don't know how to draw a diagram with the iPad."

Do it old school. Sort of. ;) Draw it on paper, take a photo of it and upload it here.

Btw, it is important to have approximately 60" walkway for on of the island short side BC my mother is in a wheelchair and it would nice if that 60" walkway is available on that one side. Thx.

Will you PLEASE, Please please get a KD involved? At the very least get help with a drawing and upload some pictures of the space as is. If you have the time to sit on here and agonize over the inches, in a space none of us can be in, you have the time to research ON SITE help with this endeavor. If it is important enough to do the agony here with incomplete and rather sketchy drawings, that do not even show the placement of appliances...........it is IMPORTANT enough to get that help. Yes? Or am I just insane? : ) Please get a KD. How is Mom sitting at this island btw.......?

Oh mother just visits, she does not live with me. I do not have anything in yet, this is a blank slate.no appliances, no restrictions really. There is the open furnace room below this kitchen, so electricals and plumbings are easier to do.

I'm not sure I understand all your notations, but I think this is the general outline of the 13.5 x 18' space, with two orientations for the 60 x 80" island.

Yes! And yes! the one on the left would be it. You are spot on with orientation, so smart!

I have a stove top. And I suppose I will have a tall cabinet that will house the oven and steam oven next to that. And hopefully I will be left with 24" of counter space there. I am thinking I should place the broom closet between the oven and the fridge to keep hear away from cold?? Or is that not necessary? I do like the broom closet opening at the side you had drawn. what size should a broom closet be? I have no special cleaning equipment, just average. Also, should these tall cabinets go all the way to the ceiling,....or break them up so that the one closest to the cook top do not and the other two go up to the ceiling?

He had bought the two ovens already so I should use them. The fridge I will use my old fridge which is counter depth and is tall, about 7'.

i am thinking I should just have an open space for my not so special microwave. Microwave lasts only so long. The perfect place for that would be at the island, taking up the upper 27" drawer space. Perfect as that faces the fridge.

The empty cavity on the right hand side use to be were my old double ovens were. There is a 12" cement footing there. This cavity is to the left of a French door that leads to a dining room, on the right is the big family room. Since then the cavity has been squared off to 24" wide and is 36" deep, and it is 8' high, ceiling height. I would like to utilize this space to the maximum as a pantry. Tracks are 24" ? so perhaps pocket shelves on the door BC the pantry is do deep, much like what a fridge door has, would work?

i do not like upper cabinets and I realize that might not always work with balancing out the appearance. I can think of two choices to balance this kitchen.

(1). On both side of the chimney hood fan (already bought) there will be no cabinets. Remember I have tall cabinets on the right hand side. On the adjacent wall ie after the corner i can put a wall clock.. On the other side of the window I can put in 2-3 open shelves....or nothing?

(2) OR on either side of the window I can put in two wide, equally divided, individual cabinet that opens upwards. These cupboards will go up only as high as the top of the window, which is 12" from the ceiling. And to balance that out maybe I should put open 2-3 shelves on either side of the chimney hood. But maybe open shelves is not a good idea so close to the cooking.

Can't think of any other options for no upper cabinets.

This house is from the early 60s and I do not have crown moulding anywhere.

the small appliances I use is a mixer, blender, electric kettle, slow cooker.

Also, someone mentioned that space would be needed at the island for the wiring of electrical plugs ....so does that mean the drawers and cupboard would end being smaller? i have not thought about this issue before.

Once again, thank you mamma goose for your latest diagrams!

First, if you will have no upper cabinets beside the range hood, the hood needs to be 6" wider than the cooktop, to help contain and capture the grease/steam plume. If the already-purchased hood is the same width as the cooktop, but has sufficient power to suck up the grease and steam (600cfm or higher), then it's probably OK, but above 400cfm you need to consider make-up air.

Are you trying to re-use existing cabinets? I drew a couple of plans with wall ovens, and uppers on the sink wall, but open shelves could be installed where I drew the upper cabinets. In the plan on the left, all cooking and prep tasks are in the triangle to the right of the sink, with clean-up and dish storage to the left of the sink. A helper could load or unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, while you are prepping and cooking. The fridge is a little further from the sink than the NKBA recommends, but I wouldn't want any less space around the cooktop on that wall. Broom cabinet needs to be only 6", or so, since brooms are flat, and most cleaning supplies would fit on a 6" deep shelf. Fridge and ovens can be located next to each other--insulation in units should be sufficient to prevent transfer of heat.

In the plan on the right, the fridge has moved to the sink wall, leaving more space for the ovens and cooktop, but now you have some zone crossing with the clean-up and dish storage areas (blue circle). IMO, this plan works better with your preferred orientation of the island, and gives you more options for landing space for the fridge. (ETA, I was confused, and thought you preferred the island with the long side parallel to the short wall. Nevermind, but I'll leave the illustrations below, for the perimeter layouts.) If you want the fridge/ovens/cooktop on the long wall, I think you should consider orienting the island as I drew it in the first plan in my previous post, and as lisa_a drew it in her illustration. Having the long side parallel to the long cabinet run will provide a more convenient landing space for the fridge.

ETA re-oriented island in the plan on the left:

Also of note: Since you will have limited upper cabinets I drew stud-bay pantry space in the empty wall. That reclaimed space can house canned goods, small boxes, spices, etc., (if you can work around electrical wiring). I drew all the base cabinets as drawers, which can house pantry items and small appliances.

If you build your island as a work/table island, with legs supporting the overhangs, and do not permanently attach it to the floor, you will not need electrical outlets. My 3 x 5 island is built in that manner--it is stable (and your wider island would be more so), and I don't recall ever using an appliance on it that need electric. If you plan to make smoothies in the blender on the island then you will need electrical outlets, since you don't want the safety hazard of cords strung across aisles.

There is a lot of information available in the following linked threads, but I'd suggest taking your favorite layout to a KD, who can help you fine-tune a practical, functional kitchen plan.

NKBA guidelines (already linked in previous post)

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

Kitchen forum discussions--all drawer bases

Kitchen forum discussions--make up air

Kitchen forum discussions--under sink trash

[Houzz--stud bay storage ideas[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/tap-into-stud-space-for-more-wall-storage-stsetivw-vs~26936417)

Good luck!

Hire a Kitchen Designer. Period. You do t know what you don’t know.

Thank you Stacy......but I think perhaps I needed more than you is BC I have seating on two sides, to allow for the 15" corner leg room.

mamma goose......again you have come me up with excellent reminders and suggestions.

(0) from your diagrams and suggestions...... I like the 12" broom closet, orientation of island long 80" parallel to long wall, keeping the counter depth old sub zero, trash bin around prep area, using almost 70" of stud wall for cans and spices.

(1). I have though of using that blank wall for can goods, but do not know if using the 2x4 stud wall is deep enough. Wouldn't the depth be even less if I finish the inner wall? The studs are sitting out from a cement brick wall behind that which is the back of a fireplace on the living room side. There use to be white bricks where the stud wall is now, the bricks were taken out BC when they were next to where the double oven use to be, the bricks were awful to say the least. We added the stud wall to replace of the bricks....it is still in stud form only. Can't think of how this could be accomplish. Would the opening be like a cabinet door or a pair of sliding doors. Keeping in mind the pantry door and a French door will all be on the same wall.

(2) I will have to use the broom closet for a 10" X 12" vaccum plus a hand held convertible to a stick. So I think the 12" for the broom closet is very good.

(3) re the hood yes it is only as wide as the stove top :( But it is powerful and there is plenty of air intake, big kitchen window 3'x6'.....plus open concept large family room with two big openable windows, one that is 9' wide. And the stove top is gas :( And I think I am restricted to have tall cabinets to one side of it only.

(4) I do not have any existing cabinets. But what is a super susan? The old Susan I use to have, the whole corner cabinet spun around including the fronts, which was divided into a shorter upper and a taller lower, but I don't think they are making those fabulous things anymore. I had a dumb waiter which regretfully is gone. I had an appliance lift which I never felt comfortable using, that is gone also. I had board pullouts next to my old stove and fridge which were very useful but I was told that they are too expensive to have and no one has them now. Btw, what does w/ROTS mean? Also in your diagram, is that a dead space beside the super susan?

(5) yes having the long side of island parallel to the long wall is good, will do that. I do not mind having the fridge on the left side of the sink....(in fact I like that)...but then if I step back and see the tall cabinets on one end of the L and the tall 7' fridge on the othe end of the L.....wouldn't that look odd, with no upper cabinets? Would it help if the broom closet is to the left side of the sink and the fridge stays on the long wall along with the ovens?

(6) with the dimensions of this kitchen, would I need a prep sink on the island? I do not mind walking at all, just wondering what the usual practice is.

(7) I will read all those links you have here. Thanks!

To the comments that I should get a KD, all the cabinet makers here will do that but I find they are in such a hurry and usually will try to pressure you to commit to them on the spot. There is a building boom here right now.

I want to work things out more or less first before I commit to a cabinet company. I learn the hard way when I did my basement kitchen. And I am getting so many excellent ideas from so many bright lights on this thread! This way I can take time to plan it all out and then fine tune it. Plus if I have a plan in place when I shop around, then it is comparing apples to apples. :)

Hire an INDEPENDENT. KD. Not one trying to sell you something.

1) The FP wall could be the back of the shallow pantries--just paint it to keep down dust. Depending on the width of the pantries, you could have a barn door-type slider, or regular cabinet doors. I have the same kind of stud-bay pantry, two cavities wide, with door trim around them, and overlay cabinet doors attached to the trim. A piece of trim covers the middle stud. That type of trim, with overlay doors, provides an extra 3/4" of depth. I don't know if you can spare a couple of inches into the room--if so the shelves could be a little deeper. DIY tutorial.

Adjustable shelving system on YouTube.

3) Check your local building safety code--sometimes make-up air is required to pass inspection, usually if the cfm capacity is over 400.

4) GW Kitchens discussions--super susans

5) You don't necessarily need a broom closet beside the fridge. I put it between the back door and the fridge, to ease the corner, since it would be a few inches shallower than the fridge.

6) I think the prep sink is a great idea, especially if you will have help in the kitchen, but you need to keep at least 36" clear for prep. With an island prep sink, while you are prepping and cooking, a helper could be loading or unloading the DW, or gathering dishes to set the table, without interfering in your tasks.

Yes! The more informed and better prepared you are to meet a KD, the easier the process and (we hope) fewer misunderstandings.

Thank you!

(0) deep pantry: the deep pantry is now 24" wide. What a great idea for leaving the back wall as is BC it looks unique. Just don't know what to do about the the depth since it is 36" deep. I can see pull out shelves which with tracks are only 24" so I would be left with 12" or so at the front or back wasted. Since it is by the great 60" walkway, the doors will be cabinet type ....to not want to compete with the glass French door right next to it. 1 panel or 2 doors here?

(1) Stud pantry: I have 4 stud spaces for use, the unfinished depth is 3.25" BC the studs do sit just a little bit away from the brick back, and so with your projected 3/4" add on depth, the cavities would be 4" after the trim and doors are on. How nice of a space! btw do you still have a pull out spice rack by your stove since you do have the use of this stud pantry?

what would the best arrangement for my scenario? 2, or 3 or 4 doors? This will be right next to the deep 1 or 2 pantry doors.....so I will basically have a wall of doors. but I guess I do not have to make use of every stud space. What would you advise for esthetics?

So the scenery goes like this......There is a 5" cavity width after the 4 regular stud spaces, then follow by 4" worth of wood studs before the 24" opening of the pantry, then follow by 4.5" worth of wood studs, then follow by 8.5" of finished wall next to the casing of the French door.......then onto the great room.

(5) broom closet : The walkway leads down a hallway to the rest of the house. The back door is in the great room at the other end of the house, after the French door. The hallway leads to the kitchen, but that hallway narrows down to 37" wide at the entrance to the kitchen, I feel more comfortable if the start of the broom closet is set back by at least 7" or so. I did noticed that you had made an allowance for the set back in you diagram....what was your recommended allowance for the ease?

The broom closet would be 24", correct? If so it will be same as the counter depth fridge I would think.

I could locate the broom closet to the left side of the sink on that wall, but not sure how this 12" cabinet would look over there. Would this look odd? With no perhaps no upper cabinets on that wall.

(6) prep sink: I was thinking it is handy to turn around from the stove and have a water source. It would be on the 80" side of the island then. Not loving this second sink on the island .....but if that is warranted.... or if I should have a second sink for my L layout ....or most people would have a second sink.......I will do it. What to do?

My friend went the route of an independent KD but she discovered that they are usually affiliated with a couple of cabinet making companies. Understandable. It is not the cabinet companies pushing their design on you, it is rather that they pressure you to buy their cabinets, no matter what design. So if I have the layout that I wanted down on paper, when I approach them I can shop around easily. I am truly humbled by for all the great help I am getting on this thread.

I liked your idea to have storage on the pantry door, as well as roll-out tray shelves (ROTS), to use up the extra space.

Following pic is my shallow pantry, before the doors were installed. It holds a lot of canned goods, but no spices. I use bulk spices, and keep them in jars above the prep space, and in a drawer beside the range. We had to add some support for a laminated beam beside the pantry, so the shallow pantry is a little deeper than one stud depth. I used a metal track system to make the shelves adjustable, although in this pic they are all the same. In the space on the floor, behind where the baseboard trim was installed, is where I keep the extra metal clips, and a couple of extra shelves. The thick rails are where the doors are separated. I re-used 8 small doors from my (demolished) old upper cabinets.

5) The box for a CD fridge is 24", but the doors must protrude past surrounding cabinetry, so it is 27", unless a true built in fridge. I'd guessed about 6" from the door, but more is you have ganged lights switches.

6) A prep sink is a convenience for one person, more important if there are multiple cooks in the family, or if the layout is dysfunctional without it. Your L will function without a prep sink on the island, but if you want to face the open space as you prep, it will be easier with a water source on the island. Without the prep sink you'll prep in the corner, or rinse at the clean-up sink and carry rinsed items to the island to chop. With the deep island (60") you'll also have an extra prep area on the short side.

You should mock up your appliances, island, prep sink, etc., and walk through meal prep, to see how it works best for you, and your helpers.

Your shallow pantry looks so good! Where you have your living room is where my open hallway is leading to the other half of this rancher.

Question....if you added a laminated piece than I would expect your shallow pantry to be a built out a bit from your wall, in the picture your pantry looks to me flush with your wall leading yo the living room.

Also what depth did you end up with inside this pantry? I like to think my needs are not too different, so did you find the depth ok?

Did you find two studs worth is enough space? I have the protential for 4 vs your 2, but I wouldn't do all of it unless it makes the space look better. I do not do my own canning so I just have average number of cans, glass jars of sauces and Mac and cheese boxes for a household for 4. My stud space do not have cross beams as there is not a need for them, this was just fur out to be eventually the same depth as the rest of the wall on either side. I have plaster walls.

since the 24" deep pantry is close to this shallow cabinet, does it look better to have 12", 12", 16", 16" all lining up......OR 24", 16" 16" lining up? Remember that there is a 32" French door on the rt side next to 24" cabinet too.

(5) the hallway does not have a door, just open space of 37". Yes this fridge is a true built in 1990 subzero, so 24" it is. The ease of space I will plan for will be 7" wheather it is a broom closet or fridge in that space. This way I feel as if the hallway opening is bigger I think. Lucky for me the light switches are in the hallway side.

(6) Re prep sink....I am on the fence re that one, it would be convenient for me but not for the sake of helpers which are hard to come by here, lol. I can see that a prep sink will save me from carrying wet washed/rinsed items to the cook top, which is not really that far...but This way I will just turn around.

(7) what do you think of using the upper half of the 27" island space as an open cupboard space for a counter style microwave. A drawer at the bottom half. Would love a drawer microwave but too expensive and the counter ones are easier to replace.

Thx!

I simply do NOT, not not, understand the continual resistance here ( in so many threads ) to a pro KD on site, IN your home, to address all needs specific to YOU when the expense of a kitchen totally justifies exactly that and nothing less. A kitchen is not exactly a returnable duvet cover, or three toss pillows.!!!

There may be lots of valuable input here to consider, both pro and non, but NOTHING will replace on site. and PRO. Nothing.

I actually saw a 72” x 40” ready made marble and metal island at crate and barrel that seats 3 on one side, 15” for leg space. Three top drawers and 3 open shelves....only drawback is no outlet possible without electrical exposure.

cost? About $5K...looked good.