Yellow leaves: disease or normal ageing? (neurotic newbie question!)
Hi everyone - I hope you won't mind a newbie question but I've noticed some yellowing leaves on my Pat Austin bush and I was wondering if they're a sign of disease? Or is this just the way leaves look as they age and I'm just being a neurotic "first-time parent" gardener? ;-)
If it's a disease, is it rust?? Or anthracnose? Or some other horrible-sounding thing? (I didn't think it was blackspot as I've seen blackspot on my Iceberg and it looks very different.)
I’ve pulled off all the yellow leaves I can see and put them together. Here are some pics:
It looks like each leaflet turns yellow individually (many have 1 yellow & 4 others green, as you can see above) - and the yellow leaflet falls off eventually.
The bush overall is healthy & green and growing well/lots of buds & blooms (and crazy octopus canes!) - there are just a few yellow leaves and they're mostly on the bottom & inside of the bush - on the older canes (which came from the nursery, not the ones that have grown in my garden), which is why I wondered if it might just be "ageing"...
Here are some pics of the leaves on the bush:
And the whole bush, taken this morning:
…but those black spotty edges on the leaves look a bit disturbing and made me wonder if it was a disease. I can’t see any “spores” though – the top & bottom surfaces of the leaves are all smooth. And it seems a weird time to get fungal diseases as it's so hot & dry (Perth has very low humidity in general).
Also, I compared it to my Pierre de Ronsard (Eden) bush which also has a few yellow leaves - but those look like “normal” old leaves to me. Here is a picture for comparison:
And here's my Pierre de Ronsard bush - I'm training him to climb on the fence. (The light green rose bush to his right is Jubilee Celebration)
FYI - my Pat Austin is around 2 – 2.5yrs old, grafted on Fortuniana. I got her as a potted rose from a specialist rose nursery and planted her last Jun, so she had the whole winter to establish before the hot weather hit in Nov. (I got Pierre the same time.)
She’s been growing well - tripled in size, with lots of octopus canes – and has been blooming sporadically ever since planting, even through the winter. She’s in full sun from 7/8am – 2/3pm. The hot sun does fry her blooms sometimes but her foliage seems fine/no wilting. She has been very healthy up to now – even in spring/winter when the Iceberg next to her was covered in blackspot, she was completely clean. That's why I'm worried about these yellow leaves which suddenly started appearing a couple of weeks ago.
I read here in the forums that rust can be brought on by water-stress, so will it get better naturally if I just water more? She is currently being watered by drip-irrigation 3 times a week and I also water by hand in the in-between days, if it's very hot (in the 30's C / 90's F). It’s mid-summer in Perth so very sunny, hot & dry most days.
I do have Eco-Fungicide (organic), which I can spray if necessary. I want to make sure I'm doing all the right things early enough to prevent any serious problems.
Thanks in advance for your help! :-)
HY
Comments (17)
Bourbon Milkshake
6 years agoUser
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
Tomato plant leaves turning yellow?
Comments (5)This is a common question over on the Tomato forum here and the most common cause is over-watering. If the yellowing is only on the older bottom leaves it may be normal as the older leaves yellow and die off as the plant ages. If the yellowing is on new leaves, new growth, then it is usually a lack of nirtogen and indicates the need for feeding. It also makes a difference how old the plants are, how tall, and if the plants are in the ground or in containers so if you post on the tomato forum you'll want to add that information. Hope this helps. Dave...See MoreThe leaves of yellow Knock-Out turn yellow!
Comments (5)Thanks, is that about a two gallon can? The majority of the foliage which has yellowed seems older leaves, mostly lower on the plant and toward the interior of the bush. That is normal. Foliage requires good light exposure to produce more food than they require. Older foliage is continually shed after the plant reabsorbs the nutrients from it (turning it yellow) to push new growth. Your flowers have only recently shattered. It's too soon to expect that pot bound plant to push any new growth or flowers. The spotted foliage I can tell from the photo is that which has turned yellow. "Yellow" means the plant has sucked the sap from them. That reduces their immune system ability to resist diseases. If that bugs you, pick off all the yellowed foliage. Pinch off the spent flowers, leaving all the green leaves in place. Don't cut down the canes to remove those spent flowers. Leave all the wood and green foliage the plant already has. Plant it. There is nothing I see in that photo to indicate there is anything wrong with the plant other than: Stressed from being in the can too long. Stressed from having temperature, light, watering, etc., change from where it WAS to where it IS. Probably stressed from having the fertilizers the growers push into the plants to get them retail ready (so you'll buy them), mostly washed from the soil due to the frequent watering required to keep that size plant salable in that size pot. Ready to push out new growth once it gets some root room, more nutrients and probably more consistent soil temperature and moisture instead of more widely fluctuating moisture and temps being stuffed into that can subject it to. The foliage just under the flowers (the newest, youngest foliage and growth) appears just fine. It's the oldest and that which is shaded from the best sun exposure which appear to be yellowing. Expect that as that is what happens with ALL plants as they grow. Just provide for this one as you have the others you've grown for years, remembering this one is more "juvenile", more of a "baby" than the adults already in your garden. So, it's going to require a bit more attention and patience as the others did at that "age". Have fun! Kim...See MoreNewbie - Please Help with these questions
Comments (13)First off your roses look beautiful! So you must be doing it right. I don't recommend covering them. Covers, in my opinion, just ask for things to mold inside. In particular in the spring when the weather fluctuates so much and it's usually rainy. The roses get damp and the temps go up and, bingo, you've got mold in there because the covering holds the moisture in so the roses can't dry off. Just a good thick layer of mulch at the base should be enough. Even with coverings you're going to get winter die back. It can't be helped. But by leaving the canes open to the air they'll be able to fight off fungus and mold better. Good air circulation around and through your roses is important year round to keep diseases at bay. As far as fertilizing and dead heading, if you're using a fast acting water soluble fertilizer like Miracle Grow you can continue to fertilize them. You don't want to put down a heavy dose of organics or any kind of slow release fertilizer though. And go ahead and deadhead right up until they go dormant. I assure you that even if you stopped doing so in August they wouldn't go dormant. The roses will continue to grow and bloom until the first hard freeze anyway. As long as the weather is good and there is sufficient daylight they'll grow. Yes, you may lose some of that new growth over the winter but I feel it's more important that they go into winter healthy and growing than half starved and covered in hips that they're trying to ripen but never will. Something I think is important too is water. We sometimes slack off on watering in the fall but that can be a big mistake. The roses need to be well hydrated going into winter. So if the weather is good keep watering them right up to the time you put them to bed. And don't rush into doing that too soon. You have to wait for Mother Nature to make the first move and she doesn't always read the dates on the calendar. Wait until you've had several hard frosts and the ground is beginning to freeze before you do any winter protection. Putting winter mulch on too early can cause several types of problems from inviting critters to nest in it (and munch on them all winter like the rabbits did to mine one year) to cases of rose canker or gall. I used to put mine down around Halloween. Then it moved back to right around Thanksgiving. Now I'm not doing it until the first week of December. The weather has been changing and has pushed back my winterizing time significantly. And that last question is easy to answer. I used to beat myself up about those huge, bloomiforous bushes too. Why don't mine look like that? Until I finally realized that a lot of those gorgeous pictures you see are from wonderful rose growers who live in WARM climates! Their growing season is much longer than ours, some of them year round, and they don't suffer winter cane die back every year. The roses get much bigger and fuller and bloom more. But they have their down times too. Not from cold but from heat! A lot of the really warm climate growers have no roses in June/July/ August (when our roses are at their best) because it's too scorching hot and the roses shut down and go dormant then. But their plants do always get taller, bushier and have abundant blooms when the weather is good. The biggest advice I can give you is relax! Enjoy your roses and don't fret so much about them. You'll be surprised how resilient and forgiving they are. Besides being gorgeous!...See MoreYellowing Leaves on Meyer Lemon Growing in Al's Gritty Mix
Comments (12)Actually, I didn't make that implication. I mentioned that foliar applications of nutrients have a place and can be effective, usually within a very narrow set of parameters, and to varying degrees depending on plant material, what nutrient is deficient, what you're using, how it's applied, often WHEN it's applied. A grower's program might be described as 'willy nilly' when the grower uses foliar applications of nutrients w/o answers to critical questions and especially when they don't even understand the questions, the answers to which determine efficacy. That's simply flying blind, and makes willy nilly is a fair adjective. Foliar aps of nutrients can't/don't work unless there is actually a deficiency of the nutrients you are supplying. In the case where multiple nutrients are being supplied, it's possible that a deficiency mighty be corrected at the same time a toxicity is being introduced because you're supplying a nutrient that is already amply available, which means that more of same has only the potential to limit. A well-reasoned approach to nutrition would find the grower answering a number of questions related to the potential to improve things or add to the number of factors that are potentially limiting. Absent tissue and or soil analysis, if foliar applications have a notable value when used on plants that can actually absorb nutrients from foliar applications, it lies more in its ability to act as an aid in identifying a deficiency than actually relieving one, but the act of applying a number of nutrients all at the same time eliminates any potential help from that quarter because when all is done, you won't likely have fixed the issue and still won't know which nutrient applied. Linda Chalker-Scott is a horticultural scientist with a PhD. She is probably most noted for helping the growing community by debunking horticultural myths, one of which is the assertion that foliar applications are an effective/efficient way to provide plant nutrition. How well and how thoroughly we qualify our offerings with facts rather than observations/statements that are often very subjective or biased serves not only to illustrate our grasp of the topic, it also serves to keep our credibility intact. When we actually have the best interest of the grower at the forefront and are providing reliable, well-qualified information, what sells it is our credibility. I've always limited myself to operating only within the limits of my knowledge, which is why whenever anything I say is challenged, I have all the facts I need at my disposal to back my offering. I never have to rely on selling my offering by using statements like "It works for me" or it might not be the best way, but ........ Dr Scott takes on the topic of Foliar Feeding, here. If you take the time to peruse her offering, you'll find her and my qualifying information amazingly close to the same, so it's not as though I'm a lone voice in the wilderness on this topic or operating beyond the limits of my knowledge. The crux of the issue is, it's very unlikely you'll gain any real traction via foliar feeding, and more likely you'll end up worse off than when you started, even if the plant ends up looking prettier (I qualified that statement above, too). I hope Dr Scott's offering helps us get to the point where we needn't keep belaboring this and similar points. Al...See More
nikthegreek
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
6 years ago
dublinbay z6 (KS)
6 years agoHY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years agoThank you so much everybody! OK, so I'm just being a neurotic "first-time parent" gardener then. ;-)
No, I'm not bothered by the look of the leaves - it's only a very few on the whole plant anyway - but I was just worried in case it's the first sign of something serious which - if I don't do something because I didn't know better - will turn into a big problem and kill the rose.
The internet is a great resource for newbies like me - but it's also a great way to scare us to death! Haha! I was reading all this stuff about "rust" and how it defoliates the whole plant and kills the rose and the pictures on Google Images looked so horrible - I was worried it might be that.
I didn't think it was blackspot because I had that in my garden back in winter/spring - mainly on the Iceberg - and it looked very different. The "black spot" was in the centre of the leaf - very obvious - and much bigger - whereas these seem to be mostly little black spots/specks on the leaf margins. Also, it just seems a strange time for black spot as it's so hot & dry?
I don't think it's possible to over-water as I have very sandy soil that drains very quickly and I've noticed many roses wilt on hot days if you don't water every day. The owner of the rose nursery told me that in Perth, he recommends watering every day for the 1st year until the roses establish - and I've heard this advice repeated by other rose nurseries around Australia.
Anyway, I will pluck off & dispose of any yellow leaves I see. What about if they're still green but have those black spots on the edges? Like this one - do I pull it off prophylactically? Or leave it until it turns yellow?
Thanks again for all your help & advice!
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years agoHY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years agoHY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR