Tankless vs storage tank water heater, electric vs propane
6 years ago
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Electric vs Gas Tankless Water Heaters
Comments (29)Wow, thanks for all the good input. I didn't intend it to become a debate about solar, but found that interesting as well. I'm not familiar with the lease program that is mentioned. I'm looking to have an array installed that will be owned completely by me. I can get a 20kw system installed for about $60,000. There is a new Duke Energy program offering $1 rebate for each kw installed, so subtract $20,000. Then there are 55% state and federal tax credits, reducing the investment further to $18,000. The system should generate about $2,500 in energy per year (assuming 9 cents per kwh), resulting in about a 7 year payback. There is also potentially a benefit I can derive from depreciating the asset, but am not sure that is allowed, so need to check with my tax expert. I think the main different between now and before is the $1 Duke rebate. Without that, I agree the payback period would be too long (about 11 years), but a 7 year payback seems reasonable to me. There is always the possibility of repair costs in the first 7 years which could lengthen the period a bit, but the warranties on the panels at least are much longer than that. In any case, I think it is a worth a try. With regard to the water heater question, I agree that two heat pump units might be too many, as the one in the basement might be idle for long times, so am not considering doing 1 heat pump (for the upstairs which will get used daily, but shouldn't use more than 80 gallons per hour as there is only 1 shower), and then a gas powered tankless for the basement. We have natural gas that will be already piped to the house for the stove/grille. Any other thoughts or suggestions are welcome, thanks for the lively debate!...See MoreReplacing tank water heater with tankless style Rinnai vs Navien
Comments (37)Hi Charles Ross Homes, Thank you for your thoughtful response. My home is a 1960 single story ranch situated in a Southeast Texas. All of the homes I have owned here have had the water heater (tank or tankless) in the attic. City code permits for this install location. Not all, but many, homes in the area have water heaters in the attic. I understand about the potential leak issues - we have water leak monitoring and emergency shutoff and water collection pan/drainage in place. My garage is detached and on the Northeast side of my property. It would take quite a bit of work and cost to move the water heater (and associated gas/power) to the garage. I could consider putting the Navien on an outside wall, but that would require it to be installed on my master bedroom wall or in an unprotected area. I don't feel it would help with the sound issue anyway and there is the cost issue as well. I think the Navien NPE-240A is just not a good fit for my needs and constraints -- given its operations and operating requirements. My last instant water heater was a Noritz - put in by the previous homeowners. I never heard it operating. I'm sure it made some sound but that sound wasn't loud enough to permeate to any of the living areas. They don't make that Noritz any longer. Do you have recommendations or suggestions for a "quiet(er)" tankless system? Thanks....See MoreTankless electric hot water heater q's... replacing tank... I think?
Comments (21)We installed a gas tankless in 2013. No problems at all. The size & number needed was decided by the company installing our Rinnae brand, which was purchased through Ferguson. Our choice was determined by space considerations. As mentioned, it is helpful to place it close to your kitchen/bathrooms. Our location was not ideal. The size of the gas line had to be increased, adding to the cost. We have no regrets, but moving yours to the garage sounds like a much cheaper option. As previously mentioned, it does not work in a power disruption. It also did not improve the look of the laundry room. There are pipes running above & below. I wish I had known what the finished installation would look like, as I would have changed the placement....See MoreHELP! Tankless combi boiler vs high recovery water heater?
Comments (2)This is very frustrating: The cost to operate involves only 3 things: The load (how much heat output is needed), the efficiency (how much heat is wasted - usually up the flue), and the cost of the fuel. Period. Propane is one of the most expensive fuels to use - so if you are using it go with condensing (92%+) heaters. That leaves the load as the only other place to make improvements - and I'm guessing you could make a lot of improvements there. It's not about judgement, it's about math. Within reason, the high btu input on a condensing heater doesn't translate into much difference in operating costs. Neither does the tank vs tankless. The least expensive way to heat hot water is a hybrid electric tank heater - that's especially true compared to propane. It's not the answer for your floor though or if you have uninsulated circulation lines that run all the time. If you absolutely want the ability to heat the floor on occasion then the answer is a 200k btu hour condensing tankless heater or a condensing tank heater. The condensing tank or tankless will cost about the same to operate. Lastly, are your circulation lines insulated? Can you run your circulation pump intermittently (timer, motion detector, push button) to limit heat loss. Regarding your question about keeping up over a long period of time (an hour) - Tankless heaters can deliver 184k btu/hr continuously until your propane tank runs out. That amounts to about 8.5 gpm of water heated from 60 to 105 (that's more than 3 showers at 2.5 gpm - a normal shower head). The tank type can deliver about 70k btu/hr continuously until your propane tank runs out (about 3 gpm - or about 1 normal shower head of water heated from 60-105) To answer your question about keeping up with demand we need to do some math. How many gallons per minute is one of your shower heads? How many showers at the same time? How cold is the inlet water? That's the only way the question can be answered....See MoreRelated Professionals
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