Even "soft" water has some minerals which can build up over many years not to mention other crud that can build up on the pump impellers. My recommendation is for spending $8 before making a decision to spend hundreds. It's up to you if you wish to do this.

Bosch all the way. I can’t hear mine running and have opened the door more than once while it is going. I love the quick wash cycle for almost everything and it is great when having a dinner party with a 25 min. cycle. The pot scubber cycle I use for all my pots and the parts from my gas stove.

Sealing those gaps around the top, sides, and bottom toe kick area are absolutely critical to minimizing the noise of a dishwasher, probably much more than the often minimal amount of padding around the dishwasher itself. I once self-installed a top-of-the-line Maytag but didn't fully install the filler pieces around the toe-kick area - it seemed pretty noisy in our open kitchen for years until I finally fitted those pieces in, then it was worlds quieter.

The black strips on the sides are not baffling the noise like fiber batting, they are keeping the sound waves and vibrations from easily escaping into the room. Those strips are usually adjustable to handle differing cabinet openings, so I can't imagine that the narrower European ones don't come with filler strips that can adjust to a typical U.S. 24" opening. But if they don't some alternative strips or wood piece should be used to ensure the gap can be filled.

Looks like the Bosch 800 series is less than 600mm according to the specs at this link:

https://media3.bsh-group.com/Documents/MCDOC01977263_SHEM78W55N.pdf?dl=1

It’s labeled as 24”, but it says it’s 589mm wide in the diagram and shows it can fit in a 600mm opening.

jaxo-

When I looked at the diagram, it showed a back width of 23-9/16", which converts to 598.4 mm. (The front width is 589 mm, which means that the door is slightly smaller in width than the sides.) Since it's European, and metric, whether that back measurement is actually 600 mm or 598 mm, it's a trivial difference. Since the spec sheet says it's 23-9/16" wide at the widest point -- the width that has to be squeezed in -- that means that there is a gap of 7/32" on either side...less than a quarter of an inch. I also suspect that the gap between the floor and the bottom of this and most other dishwashers, and the underside of the countertop and the top of the dishwasher is much more than that. Dishwashers typically have adjustable legs to accommodate a variety of heights (floor to undercounter), so this dimension has to allow even more slop than the sides. Having installed many appliances myself, I can say that I would not want to try to install a dishwasher that didn't have some gap on either side because cabinets are not always perfectly plumb or have perfectly parallel sides. For example, trying to fit a 24" wide appliance into a 24" space could end up not being fun. And having a dishwasher that was tightly fitted and in contact with the two cabinet sides could actually increase noise levels due to vibration.

Bottomline: I think there is a lot of perseveration going on here about what to me is still a rather small gap. If it were me, I'd have bought and installed the dishwasher of my choice, been done with it, and gone off to have a beer...

Right there with you kudzu, except more than one beer. OP is sweating the small stuff that they’ll forget about the day after its installed. Pick a great dishwasher (Bosch seems to be the most recomended as it was when I bought mine) and biy it. If the tiny gap bugs you that much, then add some trim and be done with it. Put this thread to bed, or the bar.

OK, I may go ahead and get a Bosch 800 series and maybe get some kind of padded rubber seals or other filler stuffed in the side and bottom gaps.

I have a white sink next to the dishwasher, so I was planning to get a white dishwasher, but that adds a week in delivery time and the white sells for the same price as stainless steel for this particular model.

I'm almost tempted to just get stainless steel since that's "in," but I prefer white because a dishwasher gets wet and water drips will stain the finish.

I know this because I have a stainless steel refrigerator that has a water drop stain in the water dispenser door that won't come out and I found threads of people complaining about their stainless steel dishwashers getting stained by dripping water on the door exterior. Fingerprint smudges would be another hassle and Bosch stainless steel dishwashers don't have the smudge proof finish. All the regular stainless dishwasher floor models on display at the appliance store looked like hell.

My stainless steel bosch cleans right up and is right next to the sink (where most dishwashers are located). Is it fingerprint smudge proof? No, but I grab my door by the handles so it stays smudge free. But if you prefer the white, then get the white. You’ve already waited 2 weeks since this thread started, whats one more to get what you want?

Barkeeper's Friend cleans any and all smudges and "stains" off stainless steel quite nicely in my experience (although it's slightly abrasive so probably isn't a good thing for ss that has a smudge-proof treatment). It removes the oxidized surface which refreshes itself in a few minutes.

There is a thread running for 10 years with people complaining of drip marks on their stainless steel dishwashers with several comments stating Bosch is the very worst for this issue.

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/how-to-clean-drip-mark-off-stainless-dishwasher-dsvw-vd~2286509[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/how-to-clean-drip-mark-off-stainless-dishwasher-dsvw-vd~2286509)

People in the thread mention trying olive oil, WD40 and several other products, but there doesn’t seem to be anything that worked for everyone every time. Bar Keepers Friend would scratch if it’s strong enough to remove water marks or not work at all if it’s not.

i haven’t been able to get a drip mark off my stainless steel refrigerator water dispenser housing that’s been there for the last 5 years.

i could wipe water drips off the dishwasher door when I use the sink/dishwasher, but I can’t monitor it 24/7 to make sure everyone else in the kitchen wipes water off before it dries and gets etched into the finish.

I don’t want to join that thread after getting a new dishwasher. Is there something that can be applied to stainless steel sort of like a Schotch Gaurd-type protectant?

If I were you I'd get the white DW. You will drive yourself crazy worrying about stainless... do yourself a favor and order the white Bosch today. The extra week is nothing compared to the time you are going to spend worrying about it! I have the same issues you mention with my stainless appliances, none of them ever look perfect for long no matter how hard I try or what cleaners I use. I don't live alone and refuse to monitor my family that closely or spend time daily polishing my appliances. It's fine for me but not for everyone. I think the Bosch 800 in white is your perfect match :)

If you use a SS conditioner once every couple weeks you will never have water streaks on your SS appliances. The streaks usually happen when someone cleans the SS but does not use a conditioner after.

Do you mean this?

http://www.bosch-home.com/us/store/accessories/cleaning-and-care/cleaners/for-stainless-steel/00576696

Is there something similar you can get in local stores?

I’m also going to try a few more things to see if I can get the “permanent” water drip mark removed or at least masked from the dw water dispenser housing.

The white isn’t cheaper on the model I want to get though.

If the stainless steel conditioner fixes the problem so water drips running down the door face won’t etch/stain the finish and fingerprints clean up with much less effort and elbow grease required, then I may just get the stainless steel.

I haven't tried the Bosch conditioner. I've used Wiemens and Cermabrite wipes.

I think there is about 30 wipes in a container which should last you over a year.

You may want to Google Stainless Steel Conditioner to see what comes up.

jaxo, as much as you've concerned yourself with the smudges, like kim says, I don't think you should buy the SS. If you expect your dw to stay pristine clean and smudge proof, I can definitely say you won't be happy with the stainless. It seems to me that you're trying to justify something you don't really want. You'll likely spend more in cleaning supplies trying to keep something clean than you would buying the white up front.

That said, pretty much everyone on this thread is recommending a stainless bosch and has no issues keeping it clean. I don't think people would be recommending them if they were difficult to maintain or looked like garbage. They don't stain, and they aren't difficult to keep clean. They simply just get dirtier easier than the painted models. I get water streaks on my dishwasher from time to time, and they wipe right off, and I don't treat my dw with anything special other than what you can buy at Target or the grocery store. I don't know what the heck those other people are doing to their dishwashers, but it seems like neglect to me.

That said, I still recommend the white for you.

I don’t expect to say pristine 24/7 as if it was never taken out of the box, but I don’t want it permanently stained from normal use dripping water like my refrigerator ice/water dispenser is.

If the stainless steel conditioner seals and protects the dishwasher finish from water stains and makes fingerprints wife off more easily, then that will be good enough.

I think there is no relationship between a defective refrigerator dispenser and the design of a dishwasher. If a dishwasher ever leaked water, it wouldn't be from the front.

The refrigerator dispenser is not defective.

When someone fills a glass and pulls it away, a few drops may drip out of the dispenser. It only took one drip that wasn’t immediately dried with a towel to permanently mark it with a water stain.

Anyone with wet hands handling the dishwasher door next to the kitchen sink can drip water on the door. Common sense. There is also a thread I linked to above with multiple different people complaining of water stains on their dishwashers that were not caused by a leak.

Maybe if I had coated the refrigerator with stainless steel conditioner, it wouldn’t have become stained by a 1 second water drip.

jaxo-

That's unfortunate, but it's hard to believe that a 1 second drip of water would permanently mar stainless steel, unless it contained sulfuric acid. I like things clean and tidy, but I wouldn't be able to function in my kitchen if I had to worry about every tiny drip. I hope you find a solution for all of your concerns....

A 1 second water drip permanently damaged stainless steel? Either that is an exaggeration or you need to invest in water treatment.

It's a common problem. Several manufacturers have started putting plastic liners in the dispenser bay to prevent these stains. No sulfuric acid required. I don't even have hard water.

I decided to try removing the stain again today based on testimonials and suggestions in this thread and others.

One thread said Brasso removed all the drip marks on their stainless steel appliance. So, I bought a bottle of Brasso and tried it and it didn't work on this stain at all.

I tried Barkeepers Friend years before and it started scratching the finish, so I stopped.

I decided to try Barkeepers Friend liquid paste again today and it did continue to scratch the finish as I scrubbed, but it finally removed the water stain with more elbow grease.

The scratches left behind are less noticeable than the original stain. So, the end result is still an improvement over doing nothing.

I then wiped down the entire refrigerator with Weiman Stainless Steel Wipes and it put a slippery coating on it that I hope will prevent another stain like this from happening again. I'll wipe down the new dishwasher with the same wipes after installation and reapply periodically to keep it protected.

Home Depot sells a product that's supposed to buff scratches off stainless steel appliances called "Rejuvenate Stainless Steel Scratch Eraser Kit." I may try to see if I can buff out the resultant scratches, but I see a lot of bad reviews of this product on Amazon.

I've used BKF powder numerous times on my stainless steel refrigerator, dishwasher panels, microwave, oven door, and sink. I haven't noticed that kind of distinct scratching from it. I rub gently in the direction of the grain/polishing marks. Maybe the finish on my appliances is more robust (they don't have any sort of "smudge-proof" treatment). The sink suffers scratches from normal use so it doesn't matter either way.

BKF is essentially oxalic acid. Is your surface a matte finish with no grain or polishing lines? I would have let it sit for a few mins to work on the water stain and rubbed lightly in the vertical direction only over the stain.

I got a new 42dba hidden controls 800 series installed today.

The salesman said it had a red light that shines on the floor that lets you know its running because it's so quiet that you may not be able to tell if it's running otherwise.

This isn't true at all. I thought it would be quieter.

I put in a few dishes and ran the "half load" cycle as a first test and I can very clearly hear it filling, the water sloshing around during cycles and dishes rattling. Nowhere near silent.

It's quiet enough to not interfere with TV-watching, nearby conversations or wake anyone up at night, but is FAR, FAR from silent. I can clearly tell when it's running from across a room. I have heard others say they can't hear dishwashers running unless they but their ear up against the dishwasher door.

Should it be quieter? Is there a way to load the dishes to make it quieter and are certain cycle programs more quiet than others?

No dishwasher is going to be silent. Maybe your hearing is just better than other people....

We had the same model installed a few weeks back. There are times the sound is noticeable but like you say, it's not so loud as to "interfere with TV-watching, nearby conversations or wake anyone up at night". I think you could have spent a couple $100 more and got one 4 decibels quieter.

I just looked at the Bosch website and see the 39 and 40 dba models listed at $1199.

They discounted the one I bought from list price of $999 to $849 because they didn't keep my first choice model in stock.

Probably not worth paying restocking fee plus another installation fee on top of the price difference for 2-3 dba difference at this point.

Full loads typically are quieter due to the dishware intercepting the water spray from hitting the tub. I suppose I'm goofy but I don't want my dishwasher so quiet that I can't hear that it's running properly.

OK, I'll try it again when I have more of a full load and see how much difference it makes.

They also tend to get quieter after you've had them a week or two and stop listening for the slightest little noise... ;-)

I smell something in this new Bosh 800 that smells like burning machine oil when I open the door after each load of dishes in the new dishwasher. It stinks.

The drying is really bad even though I have Turbo Dry rinse aid set at the default setting (manual says default is 5 out of 6 setting).

The only way to get most of the load dry is to use BOTH the Sanitize cycle and the Extra Dry function together and this makes the cycle take 2 hours and 51 minutes. Even with all this, some plastics may still be wet. The Normal cycle leaves everything sopping wet.

This is worse than the Kenmore Elite it replaced that also uses condensation drying and gets the dishes to about the same level of dryness with a Normal program with rinse aid.

I as well noted an odd smell in the dishwasher the first time or two of use. But, to tell the truth, I hadn't thought of it again until reading your post. All that to say, it'll go away. Noticed the dishes being more damp as well but we make sure to open the door as soon after the wash cycle finishes (as recommended in the manual) and this gave marked improvement.

I'm going to try the provided samples of Finish tablets to see if makes the dishes dry better than the Cascade Complete gel I've been using.

One other thing I noticed is that the controls seem to be very "finicky." and nonintuitive.

More than once the load didn't start and I got beeps and the red light flashing on the floor.

It's difficult to figure out how to start the load and I looked through manual and can't find steps.

I'm assuming you press "On" then choose cycle and options and then press "Start," but I'm just guessing from trial and error.

The "Start" button doesn't respond to the same touch as all the other buttons.

I bet you get it all figured out in the next couple of loads.

I use the Finish Quantum? (purple bag) and jet dry with great results. I've only ever used the auto and auto plus modes. It does take about 3 hours per load plus some dry time, but I bought a dishwasher to do the work for me, not to be in hurry. It still uses less water than I would if i did it manually. I normally start a load when I go to bed, and sometimes do and sometimes don't open the door the next morning, if not, not until I get back home from work and everything is dry as a bone except for places where standing water might be allowed to accumulate (bottom of cups, bowls a that tipped, etc). I don't ever remember a smell.

To run mine, first ensure my tap nearest the dw is at hot water status (can take 10-15 seconds some times). I then press the power button, pick my cycle, close the door, and walk away.

Do you have to also press the Start/resume button before closing the door?

I did get the high loop install on the new dishwasher instead of reconnecting the air gap and that made a huge difference in drain noise.

Now I don't hear any gurgling water and air drain noises at all.

Mine does not have a start/resume button.

This Miele dishwasher is crazy loud compared to the way it's marketed. I am so disappointed that I got it. It really isn't noticeably quieter than the 10 year old Bosh it replaced. I think it might have gotten a bit louder now than it was when first installed a few months ago.

I'm in another room now with the door closed and I can still hear it very clearly. The regular water noise is a white noise that isn't that bad and can be somewhat ignored, but the sound of dishes moving around when the spray hits them is very loud and distracting. Exactly what I didn't want.

The sales person flat out lied or was ignorant when saying the red light that shines on the floor is needed because the dishwasher is so quiet you need the light to know that it's running.

The red light's only use to me is so that I know if the drying cycle is on. Drying is the only quiet cycle where anyone not legally deaf could even question whether the dishwasher is running or not.

Not sure if the difference between by 42 dba model and the top of the line models 39/40 dba models is enough to make a really noticeable difference or of there a way to load the dishes so they don't make so much noise.

Is a 2 or 3 dba quieter dishwasher from the same manufacturer (some manufacturer measure sound differently) really going to be very noticeable difference?

This Miele dishwasher seems even louder now than it was when first installed earlier this year . I am so annoyed by this and now it's too late to even exchange it even paying the 20% restocking fee.

I am in another room with door closed and I can hear dishes banging and rattling around when the water from the spinning spray arm slams into them plus some constant white noise of the water. I can tune out the constant white noise, but the other noises are louder and very distracting,

With the room door open or while in the living room next to the open concept kitchen, the noise level is very obnoxious.

The salesperson was ignorant or flat out lying when he told me the dishwasher was so quiet that it needs the red indicator light that shines on the floor so you can tell it's running.

The light's only use to me is so that I know the drying cycle is on since that's the only quiet cycle it has.

I have a model rated at 42 db and Miele has models that go to 39. Is the 3 db difference between 42 and 39 enough to make a huge difference? I highly doubt this dishwasher is really running at 42 db or it wouldn't be this much of a problem. Maybe it's 42 db if you run it with no dishes loaded in it.

Is there any way to load dishes so they make less noise while being washed?

You are clearly very sensitive to noise and pretty focused on this, so it seems unlikely that a 3db reduction would be meaningful to you. I have a couple of year old Kitchenaid dishwasher that is not rated as quiet as your Miele and I am pretty much unaware when it is running and I am in the living room...which has no door separating it from the kitchen. It may be that there is no dishwasher which is going to be sufficiently quiet for you. Your Miele is toward the low end of noise: Quietest dishwashers

No, there is something wrong.

This page has a video with an example of what a 55 db vs a 44 db dishwasher should sound like:

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/bid/90427/quietest-dishwasher-by-decibel-rating-reviews-prices

If it sounded like the example of the quiet dishwasher in the video, there would be no problem, but my Miele actually sounds more like the louder dishwasher out of the two examples..

There is NO WAY my supposed 42 db dishwasher is anywhere remotely near as quiet as what the video shows, when it should actually be quieter.

Some of the loudest noise I hear is the sound of plates banging and rattling around against the water spray.

1. Get yourself a decibel meter.

2. If there is a problem, get it fixed under warranty.

I may buy a meter or try a smartphone app for the next load of dishes.

However, as I posted multiple times, I think a major part of the noise is the sound of rattling dishes. It would be quieter if the dishwasher was empty, but that would be a dumb way for the manufacturers to create their quietness ratings. People don't run empty dishwashers, so it should get the rating loaded with dishes.

Plates don't fit tightly in the racks, so they rock back and forth every time the water spray hits them and that makes a lot of noise. Unless the dishwasher is supposed to be insulated enough to muffle that sound, the plates would have to tightly fitted in the rack to not make all that banging and rattling noise when they move around. Otherwise, I would need plastic or rubber plates that don't make noise as they shake around.

Why don't you buy some heavier, stoneware dishes? Maybe then they won't rattle around as much.

It may be that your soils sensor is bad and is reading that the water is dirtier than it really is. If the water is dirty the pump sprays harder which makes more noise. Have the servicer check the soil sensor.

I expect rated sound levels are tested with the machines empty of dishware.

All dishwashers make noises from dishware rattling and bumping. Spray noises are also increased when passing jets hit large hard-plastic or metal item such as a drink pitcher. Nature of the process.