Jin, I’m resting my hip and it’s already feeling a little better I think. Definitely nothing serious. Thanks for asking. I’ve just got lousy balance. I’m not so sure about ‘September Morn’ for Florida. I think it needs really dry conditions for the blooms to open properly. I have a feeling it’s going to be very disappointing in your humidity. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure about this. I’ve wanted ‘September Morn’ for so long, that I’ve read everything I could find about it. I’m thinking about seeds for you, and doing a little research. We have very similar temperatures, just the dry vs. humid thing.

Ingrid, I almost have to agree with you. It’s becoming noteworthy in my opinion anyway. I feel like I’m acquiring some very special roses. You’re playing a big part in that. Your gracious gift of Annie Laurie McDowell is making my “rose dreams” come true. I fell in love with ALMD immediately, but thought I had plenty of time to purchase her. Little did I know! I just couldn’t get ALMD off my mind. I was going to purchase her no mater how long it took! Her hole has been ready for almost a year. A Queen Palm had occupied that spot previously and left an impressive hole. I amended the spot and looked and looked for ALMD. Every time I asked one of my sons to plant something on the slope, they’d look longingly at that hole. Nope! That’s Annie Laurie McDowell’s spot, and nothing else is going there! I loved that rose long before I had much communication with her breeder, Kim Rupert. Now that I have had more contact with Kim and know how kind and helpful he is, I like ALMD even better.

Wild Edric is a pretty special rose, too. I don’t think it’s offered for sale anywhere in the US. Heat tolerant, dark pink/purplish, healthy, and coming from you my friend, that makes it really special in my book!

I’m feeling happy and “rose rich”. Sui Mei REN, September Morn. Annie Laurie McDowell, and Wild Edric. What an abundance of rose riches to add to my other pretty special roses. Lisa

Lisa, it is ok. I will be ordering foxgloves and I know I have extra on Spanish foxgloves I will send you some. So, I am ordering and not you that way it is my gift to you :)

Jin

But thank you anyways.:) I am buying tons...lol

Jin

Thanks Jin. That’s so sweet of you!

Angel Gardens and Rose Petal Nursery both have ‘Sui Mei Ren’ in stock, right now. Just say’n... Lisa

Jeri, thanks for the update on this rose. Do have any sense of how shade tolerant it is?

Not a clue totoro ... I wish I did. It's still in a pot here, though, and gets afternoon shade. I think it will be happier in open sun on my hillside.

I’m still waiting on mine to arrive. I can’t wait! Lisa

Anyone have an update on this rose regarding growth habit and size?

I STILL don’t have mine, Cedemas. I wrote to Pam again and asked her on Friday what the status of mine is. I paid for mine in January, along with September Morn. (Yikes, I just realized that’s TWO more light pink roses, when I already have so many pinks:)

Anyway, before I ordered Sui Mei Ren, I asked Pam about her size and growth habits. 4-5F x 4-5F was the estimate Pam gave me. She didn’t think Sui Mei Ren would be a giant rose, from what she’d seen from her mother plant. Whatever it was she said about size, it obviously convinced me that I had the space for it. I’m hoping Sui Mei Ren will have a growth habit somewhat like my Leveson Gower, low, compact, and tidy. If SMR is a real tough heat lover, it may go up on my slope.

I take it you’re contemplating ordering Sui Mei Ren? Is it Angel Gardens, you’ve been visiting lately? Have you seen Pam’s mother plant? I’m as hungry for information as you are. Not many grow SMR, so there’s just not much info out there about her, yet. I wish Jeri would see this, and give an update on her plant:). Lisa

Lisa, I was very bad yesterday. I got Sui Mei Ren along with 10 other beauties. Sui Mei Ren is already in the ground. I suspected that she would remain compact and her new home is between Prosperity and Belinda as of 8:30 AM this morning.

[The other roses I got are Triomphe du Luxembourg, Perle des Jardins, Le Grande Capitaine, Leveson Gower, Mme. Antoine Marie, Comtesse du Cayla, Arethusa, Alliance Franco-Russe, Etoile de Lyon, and Virrosered (brand new Viraraghavan). Most of them have received a green light for Florida either by Dr. Manners, Pam, orJohn Starnes.]

I've been to Pam's only once. I tend to visit Cydney more often because she is about 10 miles closer.

I don't remember seeing a mother plant of Sui Mei Ren at Pam's but I do remember seeing absolute monsters of Mutabilis, Mrs. B. R. Cant, Rozette Delizy (about 10 feet tall), Belinda, and a Barfield White Climber on the back fence. About the only plants in the ground were teas, chinas, one hybrid musk, and a few multiflora-ish species. (I should have paid much more attention to that before I bought so many roses that weren't in the ground at her place. One seller who will remain nameless recently admitted that California found HPs tend not to do well here. (TOO LATE! can i have my money back?))

About 99% of what she has is in pots only. Her place is really cute. She has a wood 2 story cracker house with lots of porches, huge old oaks with spanish moss, the cutest little white fairytale-looking greenhouse, and she's on a pond. If I lived there, I would never want to leave.

Oh, you were delightfully naughty yesterday, Cedemas:). I totally understand how these things happen! Once you’re actually at the nursery, you want everything you’ve ever heard anything good about, and then, IT’S IN STOCK! It’s only on the way home or later, that I think, “Where will I put them, and how much did I spend?!?!”

It sounds like a gorgeous place to visit. I’m almost glad that there aren’t any OGR nurseries near my home. I’d be even more tempted! You came home with a wonderful haul! I only have Leveson Gower, of the ones you purchased, and hopefully Sui Mei Ren will come in due time. I don’t need her to come during this heatwave, anyway. I think you’ll like Leveson Gower. Mine struggled with some powdery mildew while very young, and in a small container. It straightened up, once I moved it to a larger container, and this past spring, it finally went into the ground. It does receive some attention shade in its new spot. Leveson Gower has had some powdery mildew issues again, in her new spot. I’m pretty sure it’s just part of getting her roots l established enough to take in enough water. I have already seen improvement over the past few months. I really like this rose, and it blooms for me more than Souvenir de la Malmaison, by far.

I’m so glad you got that Sui Mei Ren! When mine (finally) arrives, we can keep eachother updated on her growth and performance. Do you have a picture of your newly planted baby? Lisa

How exciting, Cedemas! I’m concerned about the HPs after what you said...and Barfield White...a monster, that one too?

Lisa: I will post a pic of my new baby when she blooms.

Perma: Yes, Barfield will be a monster. Super vigorous, like Tausendschoen. Mine hasn't bloomed yet.

Do not get any HPs unless they are fully vetted. If you are in doubt, ask. I will probably advise against it!

If you must have that damask scent, in order to avoid costly mistakes, stick with Maggie and some David Austins on R. fortuniana (own root for some might be ok but many of these are too new to have been tested in the long term in Florida) but check on the scents first--they are not all intensely fragrant and those that are do not all have the damask scent. Munstead Wood has it.

Rose de Rescht is ok and so is La Reine--both of these may last longer in pots. Reine des Violettes is currently in the ground but I am not sure how long she will last there. Found HPs from California are risky and so are most other HPs.

Well, I’m really glad you told me that about Barfield; he’ll need to go to a different location! And thank you for the HP info; so far I only have Paul Neyron & Violette. I’ll keep an eye on them.

I’ve picked up a few hybrid multifloras along the way; have you tried any so far? You also mentioned that Pam had one hybrid musk in the ground; do you recall which one? What have you discovered about this class for FL? I’m so excited for you! Willl you post some pictures of your garden soon? :-)

Perma, they are all still tiny babies so not much to see. Also in the heat of summer, the occasional blooms that I do get are bleached out and small.

I got my first rose in late March--that's how young my garden is. The only impressive displays I get so far are from my grafted Austins in pots (Molineux is my best bloomer, she will not stop!) but it's not a fair comparison because they were over 2 years old when I got them and everyone else is still an infant.

Belinda and Prosperity are probably the very best hybrid musks for Florida. I have Prosperity in white (grafted on R. fortuniana) and pink (own root).

Pam's Belinda, in the ground, is a monster.

Also she has a pic of Robin Hood on her site but she planted him in a pot in the ground, probably to protect him from nematodes--this suggests to me that many of them are not Florida-safe. Why else would she have done so?

Also Dr. Manners does not recommend a single hybrid musk for Florida. You are far from him so you might have better luck.

I am taking my chances with a number of them--in addition to what I've already mentioned I also have Rosaleen, Clytemnestra, Ballerina, Mozart, Felicia, Cornelia, Buff Beauty, Vanity, and Sally Holmes (Pam picked Sally for me). Rosaleen, Mozart, Felicia, Buff Beauty, and Vanity have not bloomed yet. Prosperity blooms cover the whole bush. Ballerina also puts on a good show. With the rest of those that have bloomed, so far it's an occasional flower, no more than one or two at a time.

When the growth gets a little woodier I'll have to start with cuttings so that I'll have backups in case somebody dies. I guess that's how it's going to be for me.

OH, and Cydney at RosePetals had some very impressive Skyrocket babies. The blooms were beautiful. But as I am already pushing my luck with hybrid musks, I passed. Maybe next year. I'd also like Nur Mahal and Lyda Rose.

Great info—thanks! So far, I have: White Prosperity, Cornelia, Felicia, Lavender Lassie, and Nastarana, all babies. I’m hoping to put them in some of my shadier areas in Sept. Right now I’m working on prepping their spots with lots of soil amendments & cover crops, hoping that will help them out. I started my collection based on Welsh’s book, “Antique Roses for the Sourh” knowing that his experience was mostly Texas, but hoping it was a good start. Now I’ve learned that Florida is sometimes a bit of an anomaly. I grow temperate fruits (pomes & stone) and cold-hardy tropical. It’s great fun, but does require a lot of research to get just the right variety. But I spent too many years buying from the box stores, taking home, nurturing & then losing them. :-)

Pam's place is for sale. I am not sure what is going to happen to her nursery when she sells it. Pics here (you can see her very cute white victorian greenhouse):

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/14228-NW-222nd-Pl_Alachua_FL_32615_M50035-56198?view=qv

No way, so we are going to lose another nursery or is she moving to a bigger place ?

Jin

I think she would be moving to a smaller place. Her kids are grown up now.

Lisa, I have September Morn from RVR. It had a tough time getting started and I thought it might not make it through last summer. However this year is a different story! It is still in a pot, but has quadrupled in size and bloomed regularly. Spectacular! It does get full afternoon shade, but I think my climate is a little hotter and drier than yours.

First off, thank you Yukkarose for your comment on September Morn. I didn’t see it until now. I bet it’s just beautiful! I hope mine does as well for me.

Dr. Manners, thank you for the info and photo of Sui Mei Ren. This rose has been somewhat of a mystery to me, with very little information. It’s been hard to decide where to place Sui Mei Ren. It is evident that some of my underperforming roses will have to go. I’m actually VERY relieved that you’ve said it has HT like growth. That will be much easier to deal with than the more typical China type . Thanks very much! Lisa

Not to be an enabler or anything . . . but I had an e-mail yesterday from A Reverence for Roses, and they now have Sui Mei Ren, Kaiserin August Victoria, and several more new to them. They've also restocked a long list of others. According to their website, they currently have 30 Sui Mei Ren for sale. On the other hand, they also noted that they'd restocked Baronne Henriette Snoy, but per the website, they are down to -- 1.

I ordered four roses from them last summer and was delighted by their size and exuberant health, plus the excellent packaging, and the lovely e-mails I had from the owners. My young William R. Smith is putting out some beautiful fragrant blooms right now.

I looked at the listing for the Angel Gardens property linked in Cedemas's post above. Good lord. What a paradise! I have nothing like that kind of money, but where I live, for $400K, you can't buy even a broken-down shoe box. I've never been there but I feel sad that it will likely no longer be a garden/nursery full of beautiful old roses. I hope the people at Angel Gardens are not giving up the business and wish them luck with a relocation.

Pure white! I didn’t expect that, but first blooms can be different. Thanks for posting it! It’s pretty in white, too! Lisa

Lisa, darn you! Now I want September Morn. How I covet roses with that fragrance. Considering what will do well in my area, the pickings are slim.

I noticed she is a sport of Madame Pierre Euler. Does her sport "parent" have anything to do with the great Leonhard Euler (who currently dominates my life)? If so I have to have her.

I found that the color of 'Sui Mei Ren' was very changeable here.

Oooooh.....!

Jeri, those are wonderful pictures! I had no idea Sui Mei Ren was such a chameleon! I like having very changeable roses. It’s like having more than one bush, for the space of one:) Gorgeous!

Cedemas, I know nothing about September Morn, other than the basics. I fell in love with that GORGEOUS bloom picture, and fragrance description. I also love the story about the “naughty” painting, displayed in the department store window, and the garden where it was growing. I have fond memories of my mom and aunt taking us to Woolworth’s on Valley Parkway in Escondido, when I was a child. When I read that that it was growing in a woman’s garden, and that she remembered buying it at Woolworth’s for 5 cents, that sealed the deal. I wanted it ever since. I know it’s best budded, but hopefully it will do well enough here in my dry climate. It’s been a slow grower for Pam. Lisa

Lisa, I love Woolworths. One of my favorite stores growing up in CA. My mom goes there all the time. Such a shame it closed down. You just brought memories.

Lisa, September Morn, will grow whether you have dry climate or not. I know zones are important but HMF says it only grows best in warmer climates. That's it.

So, don't be afraid to get it. I am full confidence of your abilities to make it grow till maturity and bloom like crazy. And it will grow :)

Jin

Lisa, if I can grow Sept. Morn here, you can. I got her because she seems to like HOT climates and because of her backstory. FWIW, I love the naughty painting— it’s lovely! For me, Sept. Morn’s frgrance and bloom form are worth everything!

My temp right now is 102 and she’s putting out new growth and seems to be in a competition for “Bloomiest Rose in High Heat” with LaFrance. Both have been unstoppable for me this year! I’m pretty sure I can’t do without either one! Oh and Maggie!

Also, I’m pretty sure Sui me Ren won’t like it here, although I’m drooling! Lovely!

Yucca, Sui Mei Ren will grow for you also. I would say..Go for it. It grows here why not in your zone after all it is found China rose . And I love Maggie too. Mine is huge and not afraid of rain or sun , Dry or humid.

I don't think you will regret getting this rose. If you like this rose then you should get it :)

Jin

Jin, how is yours doing in terms of blackspot? Do you spray?

Toro, I don't have it but Lisa and Jeri has it. I have the other rose. At this moment I can't remember it's name. It has no BS or anything. Super clean. Loves rain, heat and humidity.
I got it in Spring this year from Dr. Malcolm Manners. Kim Rupert also has this rose bush. I hope he sees it before I get home this evening and gives the name. I only remember as Ping Dong.
I hope Lisa will see this thread and gives you more information.

Sorry , Toro !!
Happy 4th July :)

jin

Oops, I apologise Lisa, I totally forgot what happens about the order. Redirecting that question to Jeri, ahem !!
Mine is growing fast and big. It's a bloom machine for sure. Foliage is absolutely clean . We had non stop rain for more than 2 weeks and that pic was taken 2 days ago. It looks great and has tons of buds. I won't know the size of this rose ( maturity ) either. So, I am giving tons of space. But it looks more wide than height. Growing super fast but very elegantly.
I try to order it same time as Lisa but Pam never contact me bec she had non at that time. Lisa and I was on standby list.
I absolutely love it very much but I don't detect any scent.
jin

Oops, Lisa and I was on standby on Sui Mei. I just add that in btw talking about my other rose. Sorry, I added but did not meant to confused anyone. The whole paragraph was about my other Chinese ( name ) rose.
jin

That's an adorable rose, Jin, whatever its name might be. The leaves are very ornamental too. I don't admire the nondescript, large leaves of many modern roses that seem to have all the charm bred out of them. Not that all the old roses are perfect in that regard; SdlM has very ordinary leaves, for instance, and so does La France.

I don’t have a lot to add as mine is very young (planted in a container in the fall) but this is what it looks like right now

Oops

Picture won’t load, I’ll try tomorrow!

Outsteelers, your rose looks amazing. Not bad since you bought it in Fall and it is growing tons of buds already. Got to post pics as it blooms and I bet it will look beautiful. Can't wait to see the blooms :)

My rose is called Ping Dong Yeu Ji . Sorry for the delay of name.

jin

Jin we leave today to go visit my father-in-law in Minnesota. I am going to miss SuiMeiRen’s true opening :(

I will check before I get in the car this morning but it has been opening very slowly because it’s been so cool and rainy. Edges are browning a little too

Thanks Jin and Oursteelers. Both roses look great.

I am afraid my garden will be too shady for SMR since it loves heat according to Kim.

Well, here it is. I will send another pic in a couple of weeks when we get home. I hope when I get back she has fragrance

Outsteelers, you have a great trip ! What a beautiful colour, I love it. It looks like sweet pale pink . If it is there then it is great if not until next bloom. Have lots of fun...

jin

How did SMR do for you guys this summer?

I was happy with mine. This was her first year and she was just a skinny twig in a pot. I gave her some fish emulsion once and she have me two flushes. I will try to get a pic tomorrow!