Thanks for replying Jake The Wonderdog. I was anticipating, and hopeful, to hear from you and/or aliceinwonderland.

I have zero confidence in doing the installation myself, so I'm definitely hiring and paying someone to install one for me. The one person I was able to find who would install a softener that I purchased separately said he'd charge $500 to do the installation.

If that's the case and I'm in $550-600 for one sold on Amazon with a Fleck valve, would I just be better off going with the cheapest quote (and in my case the Culligan even though I know everything must be bought and serviced through a Culligan dealer)?

And not sure about the loop. I thought I did, (i.e. the plastic loop piece at the top of the picture) but then am thinking that the "loop" should maybe be copper. Anyway, here's my setup in the basement. I guess a picture of this setup doesn't really matter because, again, I'm not doing this myself. lol

So Culligan @ $900, Fleck from Amazon + install for around $1200, or Sterling @ $1320? I guess at this point it just comes down to who I feel most comfortable with and I'd probably say the Sterling guy (if I wanted to stay away from Culligan) knowing that the Sterling guy is familiar with the installation of that brand (as opposed to buying the Fleck and having a guy install one for the first time) plus the Sterling guy can service it (hopefully not at an outrageous rate) if I run into any problems.

Hey Scotty,

So yeah, it looks like you are all set up for a water softener - there's the loop, the drain and the outlet. Good to go. (why wasn't mine that easy?!? I had to start with a hack saw just South of the water meter and replace everything).

That's fine that you don't want to do it yourself and the Sterling will probably be just fine. You need local support and so you need to go with someone that can provide that. I think it's crazy though to be in the $3k - 6k range when all you need is a water softener (some of your quotes).

The Fleck based units on Amazon aren't for everyone -but they do provide a price point for decent hardware. In other words, a good 48k grain softener should be in the $600-800 range for the hardware alone + install + any value added service.

Note that installation isn't just plumbing it - it's also testing the water, spec'ing the right size, setting the valve for to the proper settings, etc. A decent plumber can get the plumbing right, but the rest you don't want a first-timer to do.

I agree re: paying $3-6k for a water softener - seems ludicrous. At one point I thought Kinetico maybe had something that made it worth that price then I came back reality and realized they don't and I shouldn't spend $3k for a unit...at which point I then started scratching my head trying to determine what direction to head next.

Sterling (or the plumbing company who installs the Sterling units) came by a week ago to grab a water sample to send in to get tested. I should hear back from them tomorrow regarding the results. I'll likely move forward with them because their Customer Service seems to be well-respected in my area, plus the guy who came by the house was respectful and genuine.

Thanks for your input! Cheers! And let me know if 'Jake The Wonderdog' Water Softeners ever become a thing! lol

-sj

An update: I was doing the math- 2 people x 75 gal a day x 30 grains per gal = 4500 grains a day.

A 2 cubic foot softener (usually called a 60k grain) will have an expected capacity of about 48k grain when set at a more reasonable 8lbs per cubic foot of salt. That would give you about 10 days between regens with a little bit of reserve capacity. That will also provide a little bit of extra capacity if you add another resident to your home.

Good information! Will we run into problems then with a 60k grain softener if our family unexpectedly increases to 4 (you mentioned it should handle a capacity of 3) or what if we have relatives come stay with us a for a week? Could that week be troublesome?

You will be fine. The softener will regen based on actual water usage (which may be closer to 60 gal a day per person). If you had 5 people at 60 gpd you would be regen at about 5 days and would be using about 90 pounds of salt a month.

If your family were to grow to that size permanently you could fine tune it a bit more to use closer to 6-7 pounds of salt per cubic foot of resin.

Hey Jake The Wonderdog!

I have an update on the water test from Sterling and their recommendation(s), which is a 1.5 cu ft softener. See attached picture.

Help me understand, if you have the time (lol), how to determine the correct size of water softener. I'm going over the math above and I'm missing a step.

2 people x 75 gal a day x 30 grains per gallon = 4500 grains per day (like you said). How do you go from 4500 grains per day to needing a 2 cu ft softener?

Let's say I go down to a 1.5 cu ft (following their recommendation), how does that change things (as in salt usage, # of regen cycles, etc)? Does that mean it'll regen more than the 2 cu ft (seems logical) and that I'll also go through more salt?

Annnnnnnd finally, what's my goal? To get the gpg down to 0 or down to like 1? Or is that just personal preference?

So many questions...sorry for that.

-sj

Ok so here's the tricky part...

In general a softener with 1.5 cubic ft of resin has a capacity of about 46k grains (@15 lbs of salt per cubic ft of resin)

In general a softener with 2.0 cubic ft of resin has a capacity of about 60k grains (@15 lbs of salt per cu ft of resin)

Note: I say "in general" because the actual capacity is dictated by the resin manufacturer, water chemistry, etc.

This is how softeners are advertised. It is a marketing thing.
However, using 15 lbs of salt per cu ft of resin is a crazy amount of salt per cu ft.

The amount of salt required to regen a resin bed isn't linear -- there are diminishing returns. In other words, you can reduce the amount of salt used from 15 lbs per cu ft to 8 lbs per cubic ft ( a 47% reduction ) and only reduce the capacity of a 2 cu ft resin bed from 60k to 48k (a 20% reduction). This saves a lot of salt. You can do this down to about 6 pounds per cu ft... but you will get some hardness bleed through at those levels. (See chart below).

It looks like they are proposing a 1.5 cu ft softer running at 10 lbs cu ft of salt. (33% savings) that puts you about at 40.5k grains capacity. That has you regen at about 9 days with 2 people and using 15 lbs of salt per regen (1.5 cu ft x 10). That's kinda high salt usage, (50 lbs a month) but almost reasonable for 2 people and 30 grain per gal hardness. It becomes less so with 4 people and you aren't probably going to be able to dial that down to 6 lbs a cu ft - because you would be looking at a 30k grain capacity on a 1.5 cu ft softener and regen too often.

Here's the thing though: It's great for you to understand it... but if you are going to hold them accountable, you kinda have to go with their recommendations or not go with them. You can ask them about a 2 cu ft unit running at 8 lbs per cu ft and see what they say.

Just a couple of other observations: You have fairly low levels of residual chlorine but they are installing a 1.5 cf non-back-washing chlorimine filter along with a sediment filter. I'm not really sure what's up with that. Perhaps AIW can shed some light.

I'm not a fan of non-back-washing whole house carbon filters. They remove the residual disinfectant, but then can become a breeding ground for bacteria. Normally the recommendation is to replace carbon filters after a year to deal with the issue of bacteria buildup or have a back-washing filter when you are looking at a carbon filter this large. I don't really understand their thinking.

Do you want or need the RO unit? Keep in mind that every filter, softener, etc will need some consumables replaced / maintenance. Not maintaining these units is far worse than not having them. You are looking at 50 lbs of salt in your softener a month... plus something on that carbon filter and then the membrane and such on the RO unit.

Just getting back to this Jake The Wonderdog, I was out of town over the weekend.

You supplied me with some good information and I appreciate that! To answer a few of your questions, I WANT an RO unit but not planning to purchase one at this time. My wife and I drink A TON of water and we've been buying gallon jugs of water and want to get away from that. I don't plan to make a decision, though, about the RO unit until AFTER we get a softener installed and whether we like/dislike the taste of the softened water.

I'm having him install, well I haven't told him yet, a 2 cu ft softener (per your request, and.....eventually I got him to recommend it as well lol). He said this will bring my gpg to 1. Though I'm paying more than I'd like ($1450), I'm happy to do business with the guy. I've attached the specifications. Let me know if you see any abnormalities in the model NES-2-S. Oh and he will NOT be installing the sediment cartridge or the non-backwashing catalytic carbon filter.

Thanks again, Jake, for your input!

-sj

You will be good to go. Anything under 4 gpg is soft, you don't have to be at <1 gpg.

So there's another way to do the drinking water... run a line to your kitchen that isn't softened and run it through a standard carbon filter to remove the chlorine, tastes and odors (as well as cleaning up some other stuff).

A standard carbon filter in aBig Blue housing will set you back less than $100 to start and about $25 a year for a replacement filter.

Note: they may not have softened the cold water in the kitchen sink. That's often the case. If they haven't - just add the carbon filter under the sink.

Got it! Thanks again!!!!!

Sterling is elusive and holds their units’ operation manual under tight wraps. Still, it is the industry best....all you have to do is figure out how to use it. You are correct: the company’s instructions don’t appear anywhere on the Internet. Slick.

Really?1? The best? by what measure?

You created an account and have one post just so you can plug a no-name water softener?