So after incentives, the solar hot water is about $3k on the new house. Last house there was an additional utility incentive and price was less so it was about $1500. At that price, even with NG availability, payback is 5 year range. New house is all electric so payback is still less than 10 years. My payback goals are 15-20 years. Solar PV is right about there - I just don't have a great roof for it. We may get a group buy where the goal is 10 year payback and even with my east roof, it maybe worth it. ES certification with blower door test does not have a requirement for smoke test I guess. Maybe if it fails, then it does. For me - I just got the pat on the back. The only problem with that $2k incentive is proof. My current house uses less than 1/2 the energy of code houses but I bet I couldn't prove that before it was done. I will have to check into it but I'm not sure the new house could ever make the cut because of the huge east windows with minimal overhang in a cooling climate. If they don't take those things into consideration, then 50% should be possible and solar hot water would put me over that. The overhangs are limited by things outside of my control - but there are wind issues that also limit overhangs. The governing body counts the overhang as footprint and has significant restrictions. Now an awning can come later....

LOL, magnaverde! I hope this isn't too far OT, but I have another, more mundane, color/taste observation. Every year I make gallons of that middle-class holiday staple, cranberry Jello salad. My recipe, from a church cookbook, states "any flavor red gelatin." I prefer to use the red raspberry flavor, but I think almost all artificial 'fruity' flavors taste alike. Following are some ingredient lists for (basically) the same salad, found on the internet, on different sites: 1 (6 oz.) pkg. raspberry gelatin 1 c. boiling water 1 (20 oz.) can crushed pineapple, drained, save juice 1 1/2 tbsp. lemon juice 1 (14 oz.) jar cranberry-orange relish 1 c. diced apples 1/2 c. broken pecans 1/4 c. celery, chopped 1 lb fresh cranberries crushed or minced 2 packages black cherry Jello 1 medium orange peeled and seeded (all white must be removed) 1 cup pecans or walnuts crushed 1 cup sugar 2 sm. strawberry Jello 1 Ocean Spray cran fruit (12 oz.) 1/2 (20 oz.) can crushed pineapple 12-16 red grapes 1/4 c. chopped nuts 2 c. boiling water 1/2 c. cold water 1 lg. pkg. orange Jello 2 c. hot water 10 c. cold water 1 jar orange cranberry relish 1/2 c. chopped celery 1/2 c. chopped walnuts I was surprised to find this one, too: 1 (3 oz.) pkg. lemon Jello 1 2/3 c. water 1/2 c. celery, chopped or diced 1/2 c. nut meats 1 c. ground cranberries 1/2 c. ground orange 2/3 c. sugar Or 1 c. cranberry orange relish may be used I'd be willing to wager that very few people, least of all myself, could tell what 'flavor' of gelatin was used in the final product.

I heard back from the tech support people at Houzz. Their advice for the IE browser problem: reset your browser by clearing history and cache then reopening. I will try that and let you know how it works after I manage to grab my computer son and get him to show me how to do that. : ) Thank you, bayarea_girl, for that info about Windows 10. I guess I might as well go ahead and add it to my computer. They keep sending me messages about it, but I've ignored them--out of sheer laziness. Didn't want to be bothered by having to learn how to use it. But it is evidently time. Out of curiosity, I'm trying the Houzz Photo button and see if it works for me. Hey, it works. OK--now I have two new ways to post pics. This is good! Thanks for that help, Sutekesh. (That is a pic of the mini-rose Sweet Diana, for the curious. ) Kate

˙qǝMuǝpɹɐ⅁ ʇnoqɐ sʇuǝɯɯoɔ puɐ suoıʇsǝƃƃns ɹnoʎ ɹǝɟɟo oʇ ǝɔɐʃd ǝɥʇ sı sıɥ⊥ Not cute.