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tangles_long

Anyone grow Mme Alfred Carriere?

Tangles Long
6 years ago

I would love to see some photos of this rose. Is it a pink rose or a white rose? Is it a good repeat flowering rose? Any disease issue? For those who grow this rose - do you like it? I'm deciding whether to get this or New Dawn. Thanks.

Comments (67)

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
    5 years ago

    WOW, you've gotten cl. SDLM to survive? in zone 5?? I have been 0 for 6 on the regular SDLM and never got brave enough to try the climbing form. Even nestled in with loving care in my virtual zone 6+ tea bed, SDLM never even pretended to survive. Guess you get gardener's bragging rights - well deserved of course.

    Cynthia

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    5 years ago

    After that, Cynthia, I'm puffed up like a super star rosarian. My 4 yr old, own root band SDLM has, so far, produced zero blooms on those l-o-n-g canes. Not much to brag about. I got the climbing version by mistake.

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    Thank you so much for both of these photos, Cynthia! I appreciate the naked photo ;-) so I can see how those canes want to grow. She's such a slender little thing for 7 yrs. I just talked to Carol at Northland, and she confirmed everything you, and others, have said about her loose, horizontal growth. She also said a little shade would be good because we have extremely hot summers. Your first photo makes me so glad I got her. I don't mind waiting for blooms. My Austin Cottage Rose sat here for 15 years before she gave me absolutely scrumptious blooms last year. She wasn't in the way, and not a priority to remove. That combo is beautiful with Grandmother's Hat and the red roses on each side. Really lovely placement. An elderberry is waiting to go in the ground here, too. I am planning to have some things on hand this year to prop up my droopers and flopers better as per your earlier thread on the subject. For anyone who hasn't read it, it's here with more photos of Cynthia's roses. Get ready to drool. My limp Austins will be standing like little soldiers this year. Well, at least they won't be crawling along the ground. I actually like a bit of loose shrubbiness. I didn't mean to get off track here, but I found that thread very helpful. I appreciate your insight about MAC and no doubt other cold zoners will also find it helpful. Edited - I just read through that thread again (supports) and realize that I had totally missed the specific paragraphs about MAC because she wasn't on my mind until just lately. What a great thread, and I so thoroughly enjoyed seeing the photos of your roses again. You mentioned a smoke bush in the same area as your elderberry. I am feeling a little like a big time gardener because in addition to the elderberry bush waiting to be planted, I also have a smoke bush waiting to go near the elderberry. If I'm thinking like you, I must be doing something right.
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  • Giacomo
    5 years ago

    Nippstress thank you so much for the detailed answer. I am in Los Angeles so warm weather. It probably gets 3 hours of sun each day, I hope that will be enough for it to bloom at some point. Training is not that hard once you have a trellis in place. I will post when it will start blooming (maybe in a year or 2) when reaches maturity.

  • fishdd05
    3 years ago

    Good morning,live in the okanagon b.c. Can I plant in a large pot the first season?

  • fig_insanity Z7b E TN
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @fishdd05, you can plant most any rose in a pot for one or two years. Some are happy their whole lives in a large pot. A lot depends on your winter temperature. I have no idea how cold it gets in Okanagon. You will probably need to protect the pot in winter, unless your temps stay above 30F. But MAC is a large rose (let me say again, MAC is a LARGE rose), and I would get her in the ground no later than the second year. Before then, depending on the size plant you receive, I'd put her in a 7 to 10 gallon. If it's a large bare root plant, it can go directly in the large pot. If it's a small own-root rose from a cutting, start it in a one gallon and work up to the large pot as it grows.

    To KEEP her in a pot for several years, you'd need a pot the size of a hot tub, lol.

  • fishdd05
    3 years ago

    Thank you so much for the confidence!😁👏

  • joeywyomingzone4
    3 years ago

    Cynthia and Flowers, do you think that MAC could survive in a colder zone with a lot more snow? I'm in 4b but we get good dependable snow cover that sticks around all winter. I love the look of this rose and am wondering if a couple feet of snow would compensate for the lower temperatures? Thanks!!

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    3 years ago

    Joey, Cynthia will have to answer that for you, however, I don't think she gets as good a snow cover as you. My MAC didn't make it. She died, wintering in the garage. Northland doesn't sell her anymore, so I take that as a sign that she doesn't do well here, or it could be that she just wasn't very popular. If I can remember, I will ask She's such a beautiful, frothy thing, she's worth going to a little extra trouble for.

  • Giacomo
    3 years ago

    Here are some photos of my MAC I planted 2 yrs and half ago. It trains really well as espalier

  • Giacomo
    3 years ago

    Here they are

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
    3 years ago

    Joey, I would never say never, as someone who has an 8 year old tea (Maman Cochet) in zone 5. Mind I also have a list a yard long of teas that have died in my yard, so one surviving tea (two with Niles Cochet now) is pretty lame. The cost of zone pushing is a lot of hoping in vain for a) survival and b) bloom, without much of either even in a best case scenario. Doesn't stop me however...

    In your case, I suspect you could get MAC to survive but it would be an uphill battle at best to get her to bloom. If you draped all the canes to ground level and covered them with burlap for the snow to bury she might have enough surviving cane to bloom for you. For me, that's too much work for a once bloomer (as MAC is in my zone) when there are so many lovely albas and centrifolias and the like that are bred for our zones in a similar bloom form and shape with none of the work. I can only get away with growing MAC in zone 5 because she's on the south side of my house in virtual zone 6. Even so, I only get a season of bloom every 4-5 years. and she takes up a lot of real estate for not blooming much.

    If she makes your heart go zing by all means try it, but if she loses canes to the ground every winter (or even the 8" I had last year) you'll be chasing blooms in vain. With unlimited space it's totally worth a go even if it doesn't work out. In a small yard I might look for other options.

    Just my two cents of course, but you did ask.
    Cynthia

  • joeywyomingzone4
    3 years ago

    I did ask and I sure appreciate the input. I do have pretty much unlimited space -and unlimited snow cover- but I also have a very short growing season so a once bloomer with a good long spring/summer flush is not out of the question. If I could find one with similar coloring on such gorgeous big blooms!

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Not big blooms, but precious..... Madame Plantier.

  • joeywyomingzone4
    3 years ago

    Beautiful! Do you grow that one?

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    I do. I grew it from a cutting that was kindly send to me winter 2018/19. Only one made it and it's been touch and go, but she made it. I'm planting her out as soon as I decide where to put her. I had planned to put her next to Belle de Sultane, but am not sure now. I have to observe the sun more and it's been too overcast lately. : -((

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    3 years ago

    Vapor, speaking of.....how do you like Belle Sultane? To be honest, I probably won't add any more once bloomers, especially gallicas, but I have always like that rose. I was told it doesn't sucker like Charles de Mills. Then, I got acquainted with Tuscany and couldn't decide. Then, I met Tuscany Superb, the smallest of the three with fuller blooms, and gave up thinking about it. Northland carried them some years, but I haven't seen them in a long time. Belle Sultane still crosses my mind for an area that I wouldn't be able to get to very easily. I ought to plant Darlow's Enigma or Wm. Baffin there since they don't require yearly pruning.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    It's still in a pot. If it makes it and you remind me, I'll try and root it for you. You should plant DE and WmB. My cutting of the latter died, but I [planted DE last year.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    3 years ago

    I love Madame Plantier, Vapor. That would be a better choice for a colder zone.

  • PRO
    Southern Classic Landscape Management, Inc.
    3 years ago

    Second full year in ground. South facing brick wall. Stunning plant!

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    3 years ago

    Madame Alfred Carriere in my garden early morning this past Spring.

  • Diana (zone 8, AL)
    3 years ago

    Here is mine this spring. She is huge, the biggest I have LOL.

  • BA Briggs
    3 years ago

    Had just acquired a bareroot Madame Carriere now - along with Don Juan. Can't find yet a blue-flowering climbing-rose that I planned to mix-grow them all in a shared patriotic-themed aerial platform at 10'-high with picnic-table set-up underneath... perhaps in the SUMMERTIME of 2022. If my dream-setup works the way I visualize it, I shall call it "My 4th-POTUS Memorial Sunshade."


    Any suggestion for the blue-rose-climber to complete my ROSA TRICOLORS? Should be a strong-scented real strong-blue colored rosa-specimen sans association with the democratic party.

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    3 years ago

    No Rose is truly blue, but there are purple and lavender roses. I have the lavender climbing rose Quicksilver coming this Spring since people here have been posting beautiful pictures of this one. If you want true blue then try a blue clematis growing up into your Don Juan. I hear on the Clematis forum, that Brushwood has the biggest, best most vigorous clematis online. Here are some blue ones.
    https://www.brushwoodnursery.com/products/clematis-rhapsody?variant=29806708995
    https://www.brushwoodnursery.com/products/clematis-fujimusume?variant=29804615427
    https://www.brushwoodnursery.com/products/clematis-jenny?variant=29805952003
    https://www.brushwoodnursery.com/products/clematis-kingfisher?variant=37499699150

  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago

    Stephanie is correct--no rose is truly blue, but the closest to a blue rose I ever grew was Blue Bayou. Of course, it wasn't a climber. I've posted this photo many times, but I've never seen a bluer rose. Even the Japanese roses aren't so blue. next bluest for me is Love Song, but it's not a climber, either. Here, for the umpteenth is the late, lamented(?), Blue Bayou. Diane

  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago



  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    3 years ago

    That is one stunning rose Diane!!!

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    Grow out of wind and in gentle sunshine spread into a wide fan over arches and water well for first summer. Once established well and much of well rotted farm manure and garden compost. Needs no help after that save cut out old wood in pruning spread new long shoots into fan and next summer have arches covered and scent filling the area as air can circulate and less can go wrong. I am not saying it will not have blackspot as a full time issue but this way it is easy to control and even not noticed when in full flower. I have 2009 roses in my English rose gardens in Europe Northern winters hard summers hot but I grow roses that suit zone 5 and have few problems with my collection of heritage roses. Wind across from Sweden can be fatal but growing garden hedges into rooms is my way of controlling 5 acres of gardens into a sort of micro climate. If only the deer would leave me alone

  • HU-716706286
    2 years ago

    I have her and love her very much


  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    Very pleased for you .Love is the gardener, life is the garden

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    Md Alfred will grow well in zone 5 but hates the cold wins of winter. I grew her in England and se reached the 40 foot across mark in 4 years with light pruning of mostly dead wood.On retirement moved to north Europe for better summers more land and house build. So try again in zone 4 winters around the sunny side of big Gazebo .Should be fine but doubt she will make 40 foot across and 12 foot high here but we can hope. If unpruned she will not flower that well .Best prune to get blooms

  • Katrina Spears
    2 years ago

    @Kevin Parr did it flower much? I have 2 growing up either side of french doors on a shed and was hoping it would canopy, but was afraid that it would die back in our zone 6A (chicago, IL) .. I just purchased Alberic Barbier rose just in case. I know that this grows in Chicago

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    dear Katrina it is early days .It came through winter and has flowered on my Pergola walkway. As it is on south side out of winds one hopes for greater things. If it comes through this coming winter here I can say its fine. I have to chose Canadian Morden lab hardy roses in the main as English ones from David Austin all died in the February minus 30c. I have built four acres into a walled hedged room set of gardens and gone for plants that will survive Latvian weather .Here can reach 100 f in summers and drop in winter to minis 34c . Mostly not as snow if falls early and deep comes as insulator if not earth freezes a meter deep. Not the best place to garden perhaps. Im English who bought land here at half the price than in England and built a house and made fields into gardens over 9 years so far. I spend all day in summer building gardens and in winter plan the next phase. Good luck in the windy city with your roses. I can tell you next year in Md Alfred Cariier survives . Yours Sir Kevin Parr Bt

  • Katrina Spears
    2 years ago

    @Kevin Parr your place sounds like a Dream!! I can imagine it being gorgeous! If it isn't where you want it yet, It will be there. Please show a few photos when you're ready. I would love to see your gardens

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    MAC won’t be alive in -29F /-34C. I am in zone 6a NY (-10F), have been through a few MAC here. It did grow in two protected spots, but they were gone during two very cold winters (-20F??). I have tried again a few times after in my old garden, mice took them during their 1st winter. Now I have one in pot on its 2nd year. Starting a new garden at a new place in a slow speed, still haven’t had time moving roses from my old garden, just getting the old house empty is a hard task right now , will have to get it ready for rental soon. I won’t put this MAC in the ground until I can root a few next year for safety. :-)

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    Thank you dear Katrina . I write a blog. Sometimes on gardens historic and add some photos of my work.200 blogs todate mostly historic fact but fiction too. Hope you read it its free and you can comment anytime. Sirkevinshistoricfacts.com. You can find it on Wordpress. I think six photos of gardens here are added in some garden blogs.If not enough ,when all is complete next Summer will talk of my garden in detail and show all photos of build and finished gardens.For now Im working hard to keep white tail deer out with post and wife fencing. Never needed it until forests they cut down for Baltic pine for USA orders and deer had no place to hide. Saw my garden as a salad bar and lost many fine hedges. So until I can replace all lost over time I do not want photos of damage to remind me of hell. When tall wire fences go up and grow Russian vine and Virginia creeper all over them new hedging Thuja trees can grow at own pace and that part of compound can be sorted. Rest of garden rooms were not affected as Rugusa rose hedging 7 feet tall and wide were not on menu its seems. I have many tall hedges but Green Emerald Thuja hedging I lost the lot 300 trees to deer attack in one night .Just 4 feet tall and doing ever so well cut down to 3 inch tall .Dead as soon a next day dawned. Cost of around 1200 euro plus some small roses and many plants .I have six long borders packed with plants all die off in winter and grow again in Spring.So deer could not get at them. These main 12 foot wide borders run from tall 10fot high 14foot wide metal gates down to water fountains where gardens run both left and right off main driveway. The gates my own design made by blacksmiths local are peacock tail fan across to arched top gates one each side of driveway .My other gardens at house are joined to main path and gates across once cow pasture field is the new gardens started five years ago with deep trenched borders Black plastic covered and car wheel and brick stone and all to keep it down for 2 summers . Got rid of field weeds that remained perhaps 2000 years in this open country forgotten by time and mankind. Then started to make grass understand that it cant grow upwards but side ways.Big arguments but I won in the end. Spiked feed and watered ,rolled daily for weeks took 3 years to make English lawns. The garden folly went in two years ago but took ages to find a roofer with skills to do this. Tall 3 m tall room for dining all fresco .Backed by pergola up to it for shade and grape vines wire supported.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    2 years ago

    Kevin Parr, would you please share some of your garden photos with us? I love watching UK’s ”Escape to the country”. That started me thinking about country living. Would love to see the style of your garden. I am starting one in the countryside. Do you plant your roses, plants near water source? Thanks

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    On my blog some garden photos but as said will finish off my designs and hope to publish a blog on this gardens alone.All photos on how it began and finished off.But not until next Summer .For now read my blogs and see some garden photos I have used to bring story to life .sirkevinshistoricfacts.com Wordpress will link you to my work.Hope you enjoy. Then when Im satisfied the gardens are as they are are ready to be seen by interested parties .I b built the garden rooms to stop wind and deer and make me a very private world

  • Kevin Parr
    2 years ago

    yes water in a garden is vital .Well for main line water and gutters on folly on rain chain filled a 5000 litre container in three days. I add mown grass from lawns ino rain containers to give me black gold food.My plants adore it as a top up once per week .The last garden room is a 7 minute walk from house up main arched rose avenue to gates of garden world, So water was such a problem. Dug a well and it is always full and for watering cans perfect . Water fountain top up too in hottest of summer days. It is not as hard now it s just care and wandering about weeding. Big jobs will be over once fencing goes up I hope. Must do this before October and on set of hooved Bambi and her family take notice of my gardens again. So far from house it is hard to keep them off.

  • murasaki_rx
    last year

    This is an older thread but i hope i can get a piece of advice about planting MAC on a pergola. Can she take full sun in a hot, dry climate ? how long would the blooms last? also, some people say she only repeats after 4-5 years, and only a bit. thanks in advance.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    last year

    Which state are you in?

  • Katrina Spears
    last year

    @summersrhythm hi! Im in chicago. I just walked in from looking at my Madame. I
    Moved it winter before last. Its been growing like crazy but does not produce a lot of blooms. I’ll wait until end of summer to decide if I should take it out

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    last year

    I would give it more time. A climber takes 3 years to become well established. MAC is a good rose.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    last year

    Murasaki-rx, you need to tell us your location. Sheila is a rose pro in a hot, dry climate.

  • murasaki_rx
    last year

    oh, yes, sorry! i am in southern Romania, my zone is maybe 7b. the summers are very hot and dry, long, with very few rain. the winters used to be cold with a lot of snow, but lately snow has become very rare and it doesn't go below - 10 C (14F). even that only for max. a week or so.

    Sheila is not available here, unfortunately. i would like a rose for a pergola we want to build, ideally with good fragrance which wafts in the garden, repeat and few thorns, as we are going to sit and pass by there all the time. I also found Alister Stella Gray, which is supposed to have few thorns, but i love the blooms of MAC better, for such a central location. I am only worried about the full sun, it can get very hot there. i can water there easily, being in front of the house.

  • Kevin Parr
    last year

    Yes hot indeed.We enjoy hot summers but winters cold and strong sea winds do much damage. I now have roses that can cope with such variation of heat and cold .Took me long time to find roses like horses for courses . Canadian Explorer rang from Morden research labs In Canada have a full range of great plants that are hard as iron nails .John Davis rose flowers most of summer in pink scented flows of climber 10 foot x 7 foot .Makes a good column climber .It can be left and not covered in minus 30c winters and still come back in Spring better than ever. John Cabot too makes a wide rambler on pergoda frame . With out them my rose garden would be bare or cut right back to take half summer to reach a good tall plant .Summers are 100f in July . June is best month for building in garden s. Summer goes on to end of October. Autumn tree colours November December .Worse month February . Im English used to hardly any winters and cool summers .Took some time to find my garden needs in rural wild Latvia

  • Katrina Spears
    last year

    So nice to see John Davis. I thought I had purchased a Modern Blush Rose for a pot, and it appears the mislabled rose is John Davis. Its also a very fast climber. It was 1’ when planted in May, its about 3.5’ now

  • portlandmysteryrose
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @murasaki_rx Yes, Madame Afred Carriere can handle dry heat. She is grown in TX in the US, and it gets hot in TX! She has also grown well for me in the Pacific Northwest of the US. She is a tough rose that spent 20 years growing and thriving over a French drain in my hot summer, west facing garden where temps in the narrow space next to my house are always up to 10 degrees hotter than cooler areas. I recommend trying her! She does need time to mature. She is slow for several years (3-4) as @summersrhythm_z6a mentioned. The she starts to soar! Train her canes when they are younger. They stiffen in time which makes it training more difficult. SHE IS A GREAT ROSE! Her blooms are exquisite all spring through fall here. Her fragrance wafts. @Katrina Spears Giver her time to settle in. Once she does (3-4 years down the road)—Wow!




    With Bourbon rose Zephirine Drouhin.



  • Kevin Parr
    last year

    A good hardy no nonsense rose bush tall is Stanwell Perpetual .It grow into a massive bush and flowers heavily most of July August .After that a few blooms are present all over bush until Autumn late on .Some sweet scent and prune hard after flowering .Soon comes back .I tried not pruning for three years save for dead branches. In fourth year I cut right back to ground level and what came up was so lovely that I do this with the two Stanwells. Came from Essex a village of Stanwell as a new plant cross by a Vicar using wild hedge rose and a French Bourbon seed .Result is one of the nicest frilly pink flowers ever bred. It stands up to almost any climate and any soil. Heat or winter cold it takes in stride . Zone 4a loves it .It even remained in leaf until January .You can even help it to climb .Mine reaches 8foot x 8ft on a trellis same size .I do nothing to size it it does all itself I just tie it in

  • murasaki_rx
    last year

    wow, @portlandmysteryrose, how beautiful your Madame is! thanks for all the great details, they are very helpful to me! I had almost made up my mind to try it, then read a lot of comments on helpmefind where people complained of mildew and many other diseases, so i got a bit scared... but now i will get it for sure!

    i have one more question, if you don't mind: i read she can be grown as a "tree" as well, can she support herself to evolve into a tree shape? without support?

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
    last year

    I loved my MAC! It unfortunately went into shock or something and didn't make the move to the new place.

    I broke down and ordered another one because I want it to climb across & over the front of my barn which is close to 18 ft high in the center and 36ft wide. Its the only rose I had that, I think could do it and still bloom well, be a soft romantic pink etc.

    I had her on a gazebo previously and she could have been 22ft easily..I kept cutting her back and wapping her around posts and she would still throw out new branches every which way.

    I plan to root some more once its big enough and plant them on some ither outbuildings.