I'd plan on taller than typically listed heights for any given rose, rather than shorter.

Moses, how many years have you had Evelyn? What is it's mature size height & width? I just planted a #5 gallon near a walkway and want to make sure there's enough clearance. I should really check it's ultimate size in places like San Jose, but can't be bothered to do a proper search at the moment.

Romogen,

Here's the history of Evelyn in my garden:

She was purchased and planted in the ground in the spring of 2013, as a gallon, own root, from Chamblee's when they still sold Austin roses.

She was planted in an ideal spot, full sun, rich soil, and plenty of elbow room to grow to her full potential.

She never put on size, about 36" X 26" in 7 years, with an occasional wild octopus to 4 feet. The widest diameter basal cane right now is 3/8" at 3 inches from the crown. Pitiful! The visual effect is a sparse, not lush, tired looking bush.

The highest blooming cane reached about 3 feet last year, and the same again this year. The canes arch almost like a rainbow, with the flowers usually bending down, held at 12-16" from the ground, almost facing the ground. A lot of tying up and fussing with blooming canes is called for.

Black spot was an issue, but I do spray. If unsprayed I would expect at least 1/2 defoliation by the 4th. of July.

I heavily winterized Evelyn every winter, and she came through very well, with die back only to the point where she was spring pruned anyway at about 12", as I planned to prune her, so the amount of winter kill higher up on canes was of no importance.

Totyaly out of character, her flower production was very good to excellent, in spite of the bush's lack of vigor. She liked to bloom, and a lot! This is contrary to what could be expected by her lackluster growth. The flowers were large, lovely, and fragrant, but could not be supported by her long, thin stems.

Evelyn's flower beauty and scent are legendary, and I concur. Mine were beautiful if cut for the vase. In the garden you got to see them at lousy angles as they essentially just about faced the ground. The blooms last a long time both in the garden and in the vase, much longer than say, Tamora.

In the garden, surrounding roses have grown to their mature size, dwarfing Evelyn even further, making her look like a, "before," and the others, "afters."

She is very thorny, reaches out and rips you up. Her undersized foliage is not in balance with her blooms.

Well, that's it. That's how Evelyn grew for me.

If I would ever be inclined to try Evelyn again I would grow her on multiflora rootstock. Her exquisite, powerfully scented flowers; abundant production in my garden, and their long life before petal drop are her strongest assets. May be the shot in the arm a vigorous root system would give her would result in strong canes, and a nice sized, lush bush.

Moses

Reduce that magnificent Evelyn to about 1/4th. of that bush, then take out 2/3 of the canes, and count 5 open blooms max, and that would be my Evelyn at its very best, which was last year. This year, a little falling short of last year.

Moses

I think Evelyn likes heat. Many roses grew backwards for me in the north country I previously lived. I'm not sure grafted will totally solve that problem.

I remember Dee-Lish had a very strong edible-like berry smell.

I recollect NJ's farmerduck growing Dee-Lish; he should be able to help.

Hey Moses,

I received Dee-Lish from Edmunds only this spring and, although it was slower to take off compared to my other bareroots, this fall I have one cane that is 6-7 feet tall. The flowers are nice - a color I didn’t think I’d be crazy about but the scent is outstanding and unique. That is why I’m keeping it, not to mention it is very healthy. I don't care for the narrow HT growth (so far) but I’ll get over it :)

I love Evelyn despite her faults and was preparing to put her in garden. She been living in a 20 gallon pot on my deck the past 2 years and is huge but wanted to give her a permanent home. I am concerned about cane loss but she’ll have some protection. Would you consider moving your Evelyn to a different spot or finding her a new home?

Strawchicago also grows Dee-lish over on the Organic forum. Perhaps if you ask there she may send you a pm, as she no longer posts. Moses, I'm going to send you a pm.

Dave,

She was planted in a prime spot in my garden, nothing better available. If in the spring she survives enough (I did not winterize her this fall....punishment!), to be transplantable, I will offer her to my niece.

Sheila could be right about Evelyn liking heat. She did not skip a beat in flowering continuity all season long, even through the intense radiating heat from so many close buildings, sidewalks, and streets that my garden gets.

I would not really expect her to do better for my niece, going into a garden with some shade, as she has. Also, Evelyn, my particular rose bush, not my niece!, may have been a runt from day one, not able to shine anywhere. Who knows? Although her flower output was great as far as quick repeats, and normal size goes, which contradicts everything else.

Moses

Yes, both of my Dee Lish grow narrow and tall, about 6 feet after two (? Or 3) years. I need to cut them down hard next spring to encourage branching. I think I saw someone here NJ posted a picture of his DeeLish. His plant look very well rounded though. His trouble with it is that the flowers fry in the high heat.

Farmerduck,

Thanks for the info. Do the blooms last on the bush? Do they nod? Is winter protection needed, and is Dee-Lish tip hardy? Any black spot? You appear to be the go to person, so please forgive my rambling questions.

Moses

I have Dee Lish here. It's about chest height. The blooms last pretty well and are held upright, no nodding :). They are nice in the vase too. It's healthy here, I have one in sun and one that gets some shade and I don't recall either one having disease issues, and I don't spray. Awesome fragrance! I don't winter protect, so yeah I have die back but it bounces right back. 2017 was the 3rd year here I think. It will probably be bigger for you Moses, you have a longer season and take better care of your roses!

No worries at all, Moses. Other than the height, my experience is the same as Dingo’s. I cannot rember whether there is winter dieback, but if there was any, it is certainly not bad. I don’t grow any that dies to the ground. I saw I am actually a zone 7 on the official hardiness map though.

The bloom last a long time on the bush. Does not nod. No black spot, but it is not a densely foliaged plant either

Thank you Dingo and Farmerduck,

What helpful information.

My USDA hardiness zone, going by the map is zone 6b. I use this only as a reference point, because the unexpected is to be expected.

The average extreme minimum is listed as -5 for my zone. I have to take into account expected rule breaks when like a few years ago, it dipped down to -24! Devastation in the garden takes place when that happens. That's why I winterize heavily, except for roses like Quietness who is tip hardy with absolutely no protection. However, Quietness has not gone through a -24 yet, but I expect at least a live Quietness after winter in that case.

Moses

I have to say I was never impressed with my Dee-lish. It didn't seem very vigorous and would black spot. It only lasted a couple of years before it succumbed to winter kill.

I'm with Seil - my Dee-Lish is still hovering about knee high at the end of her second year and while she hasn't died over winters yet it wouldn't surprise me. The height I hear from other zone 5 and 6 people surprises me. We get plenty of summer heat so that's not the issue. Maybe her 3rd year will surprise me. Mine is own-root though and that might be the difference.

Cynthia