37? That's just creepy.

Unless I could actually know the details and they were benign, I think I'd find somebody else to do the work.

I just left a message for him to call and set up an appt to clean the gutters. At this point I'm not inclined to tell him what I know. I don't think it's necessary, given the nature of the work. I know, and that's really all that matters.

There's a guy at my church who used to be homeless, then got married to one of the parishioners. They seem to be happy and devoted to one another. It's common knowledge that he spent time in prison and seems to have turned his life around. After finding the info on Dave's conviction, I looked up the guy at church. Very easy to find. It's worse than I thought and more recent.

Carol, yes, it is. But it could have been something like Fori described. I don't want to talk about the sordid details with a guy I hired to clean the gutters. I don't want to have that conversation with him or anyone else. I'm not a Pollyanna, and if I ever picked up a creepy vibe I'd be done with him. It's just that easy.

I have come across random info when I google for a phone number or an address. Sometimes amusing or odd, sometimes disturbing. It is so easy to be an "accidental" snoop nowadays!

Here is my issue - If no one hires someone like this, for any task at all, even those where there seems to be no related risk, than what are they to do? With the internet, it is all very public and easy to find.

Society (in the form of the courts) knows the facts of the case, and meted out punishment. Ostensibly, that punishment is not supposed to include a lifetime of unemployment.

I would mention nothing and continue to evaluate him on the merits as it applies to the job.

I would have a very hard time with this. I understand those who say he has served his time -- and that is true under the law-- but there is a reason why there is a sex offender registry. Yes, I know a large number of people are on the registry for crimes that ridiculous to be included as a sex offense (like peeing in public.. gross but not a "sex crime" imho) but there are a lot who are on the list for good reason.

I lived in a town that had an extraordinarily high rate of sex crimes. It was a walking school district, quiet streets and close to a few major highways. Most of those crimes were molestation or exhibition and few of my friends and siblings grew up without some sort of traumatic experience. Men attempting to stick their hands in their pants.. or in my case, a man who exposing himself uh.. actively.. as he drove alongside me as I rode my bike. My guy was caught and arrested.. so my trauma didn't end with the experience. I also had to go to court and explain (as a 10 yo) what he was doing in detail.. using words I was very uncomfortable with at that age.

No, I would not knowingly invite a sex offender to my home or neighborhood. He may very well be reformed. It may have been something that didn't elevate to the level deserving of caution.. but I would not take the chance unless I knew the circumstances. There are plenty of jobs out there for sex offenders that do not expose them to your home.. or your neighborhood.

Funkyart, I'm really sorry for what you had to go through as a young girl. I understand why you feel as you do, and daresay I would feel the same if I'd had a similar experience.

According to his business cards, Dave also cleans windows and repairs screens. I had considered hiring him to clean my windows, but I've changed my mind. So I do draw some distinctions about the type of work I'd let him do.

I don't see where my neighborhood is that different from others. Who knows what lurks in the hearts of people who come and go freely, who don't have their criminal records posted online. Politicians and entertainers, if I may be so bold.

Yes, I'm creeped out by what I dug up about Dave, but I don't feel personally at risk. And I do love my neighborhood and wouldn't knowingly put them at risk either.

Hmm, i think i see Funky's point about other employment choices. I was thinking he started a gutter cleaning business because no one will hire him?

Maybe, though, he specifically chose a business that puts him in people's homes and neighborhoods so that he can scout them out? Thus, even if you and yours are not at risk, by facilitating a successful business that gives this person knowledge of and access to many homes, that could enable him to prey again.

Isn't one reason that sex offenders (and not other kinds of offenders) have to register that they have a particularly high recidivism rate?

Sorry for changing my tune. But on reflection I would not want to help this person build a business that regularly puts him in private homes.

I just heard an NPR story about sex offenders not getting out of prison, years after their sentences are completed, because they don't have anywhere to go. It was specifically about the State of Illinois. It mentioned how much it costs the State taxpayers to keep them and how limited the approved living areas are and how strict conditions can be for their living arrangements. It was on the show Here and Now.

"He's insured/licensed, friendly, cheerful, works hard, and his prices are reasonable." What?! That's almost unheard of these days. How 'bout sending "Dave" on over once he's finished at your place...

I would think he would be unable to get a bond or insurance if he was seen as any kind of risk.

I have a good friend who ended up with a partner who served time in prison for a drug offense. She is as straight and narrow as it comes; she met him on a dating site and knew about his offense pretty early in the relationship. He assured her he'd changed/learned his lesson and she took a chance. He truly HAS changed; it's been 15 year or more they've been together and I know he'll never re-offend. So sometimes people just need a second chance.

As far as inviting someone into your neighborhood, there is nothing keeping them out whether you do or don't. He lives SOMEWHERE! There are neighbors, your neighbor could be on the registry. Our registry has levels of risk assigned to people on it, the chance of them re-offending. Someone who is a high level would give me pause, but a low level (as in sex with a minor girlfriend if he was close in age) would worry me less.

Mtn, maybe he indeed chose a gutter-cleaning service because no one would hire him. Maybe it was his line of work before his arrest/conviction/incarceration. Maybe he likes cleaning gutters and he's good at it. Last time I checked, it's an honest way to make a living. I assume he's not restricted from this line of work which means he's on the roof of homes in neighborhoods, mine and others.

I'm not defending or excusing what his being on this list suggests. Those acts are reprehensible. But, if we are talking about serving your time and being for second chances, at least in principle, then where is it acceptable for someone like Dave to work? Digging ditches? In a factory? Harvesting crops? What about his spare time when I assume he is free to drive through our neighborhoods and make observations.

The fact that up until finding out about his past I've had a favorable opinion of him and his work, and his last conviction was in 1998, I'm going to proceed with caution and hire him again to clean my gutters. He won't be inside my house, at all.

You thanked Fori is extremely displeased

This makes me chuckle.

I am sorry to see responses challenged here.. the questions was, "what would you do" and I believe each of us answered the question based on our knowledge, experiences and honest feelings. But since you posed the question about what can he do to earn a living.. gutter cleaning isn't some kind of specialized skill. There are plenty of jobs that earn similar wages.. and some that earn higher wages. You draw the line at your door. I choose to draw the line at my property line.

I do have concerns regarding the people who are on the sex offenders list unfairly.. but that is a completely different topic. However, I also have concerns about the high rate of sex crimes and harassment in our world-- especially those against young girls and women. No child should have to endure an uncomfortable experience.. let alone one that is damaging. He may be harmless, his infraction may be minor-- it may be something I'd deem inappropriate for the sex registry -- but since you do not know, the questions are enough for me to find another service worker.

I am curious though-- the information about his crime clearly involves a 14 yo when he was in his late 30s... as does the Roy Moore accusations. Are all of you in support of Moore continuing forward in the election? Would you vote for him?

I wouldn't vote for Roy Moore, even if the sexual misconduct allegations were not hanging over him.

I would not vote for Roy Moore.

I also don't understand how people would vote for the current president after hearing the 'grab them by them *^%%¥" comment.

"Are all of you in support of Moore continuing forward in the election? Would you vote for him?"

I am in support of Moore being prosecuted for his crimes. Doing his time.

And even if he had no accusations of any kind, I wouldn't vote for him because I find his politics reprehensible.

I should have been clear that the question was on the basis of the accusations against him. I would have thought that was clear based on the topic. Feel free to insert a liberal of your choice into the scenario.

I do thank each of you for your input and opinion. You've given me plenty to think about. I'm still leaning toward hiring Dave to clean my gutters, despite what he has done in the past.

As for the Roy Moore scenario, I invite you all to carry on as you are so moved.

I am curious though-- the information about his crime clearly involves a 14 yo when he was in his late 30s... as does the Roy Moore accusations. Are all of you in support of Moore continuing forward in the election? Would you vote for him?

Dave served time for whatever he was accused of doing. Moore has not. He sure as hell has no business in the U.S. Senate.

Funkyart, just what jobs can a convicted felon get?

My friend has a restaurant and ONLY hires convicted felons who have been released from jail. Some of them even handle the money!!!! My friend specifically has this business because no one will hire felons. He also has a 0% recidivism rate.

i’m curious what types of businesses in your area a felon can get and that you consider a good paying job?

I would absolutely hire Dave, given the circumstances that were provided. And I would not start making up crazy theories around fears that others have.

I responded to the question asked.. and I gave not only a response but the reason for my response. I got off easy. My sister was physically molested at an even younger age. All by strangers who came into our neighborhood. I don't think caution based on my experience is a crazy theory or unwarranted fear. It's based on the fact that he is on the sex registry and his crime involved a young girl.

I don't know all jobs that are available to felons in my area-- but I know for a fact there are both restaurant and factory jobs. But really, it's not my problem. I would be just as likely to not hire someone who I observed speaking unkindly to another. Would you jump all over me for that too?

I am all for giving those with a conviction a second chance--felon or not. I am all for removing non-sexual offenses from the sex registry. However, I stand firm without any reservations that I would not bring a convicted sex offender onto my property.

"Any work Dave does is outside my home." Not sure I understand this comment, Linelle. I doubt inside or outside work would deter someone wanting to commit a crime. They would find a way to change outside to an inside situation. If he has not given you any discomfort in the past, I agree with Lyban. If you're uncomfortable during his upcoming visit, then you need to make a different decision next time for your own peace of mind. Let us know how it goes.

There's a big difference between someone who performs menial labor and someone who is in a position to create public policy. I would certainly continue to employ someone who has worked for me in the past if I found out something like this in passing so to speak. If I were hiring someone new and I found out something like this beforehand, I can't say. But he's got a track record in your case and you also aren't hiring him to baby sit.

Honestly, you are not hiring him to babysit your daughter. He's only going to clean the gutters, which is kind of a rotten job if your gutters smell anything like mine after a year. He's worked for you in the past, no problem. Give the guy a break and let him clean your gutters. I would not bring up the topic of his crime. He paid his debt to society.

Pal -- great minds!

Delilah, I made that comment relative to my own sense of being comfortable with Dave or anyone else for that matter. Working inside my house, within my four walls, hidden, is something I don’t allow just anyone to do, whether they’re on the registry or not. It’s a whole other scenario to have someone cleaning your gutters in plain sight.

Drug offense? Can be rehabilitated. Burglary? Robbery? Can be rehabilitated? Murder? Can be rehabilitated. Sexually attracted to children? Cannot be rehabilitated. I wouldn’t have him in my neighborhood where he can be normalized. I won’t go into the very personal reason I say this, but these men destroy lives. He probably offended his own child or stepchild. That’s usually the first opportunity.

I am glad you are able to feel safe and trust enough to hire him. Truth is if he can't support himself then he will quite possibly end up on the public dole..its a hard spot to be in. There are MANY rather innocuous ways to get on a registry. With cyber dating..its possible the 14yr old wasn't being honest etc about her age. Forgiving is a huge challenge but trusting even more so. The thing in all this I find most ironic, the Superbowl is coming to our town..the truth of the sex trade that goes on to "service" all the men coming is beyond trashy. Society has a HUGE issue with sex and pointing fingers when we have all collectively allowed things to get this far seems a bit unfair to me.

Although not a sex offender, we have a landscaper who does some work for us who is mentally challenged--he may have autism or another disability. He is capable enough to own his own business but like PP's said, I don't know if he could hold a steady job if he wasn't working for himself. He would probably be on disability, etc.

Dave just returned my call and he's coming over Friday morning to clean the gutters. He says he's keeping really busy and we both agreed that's a good problem to have. There's a lot of debris on roofs and gutters as a result of the recent fires. I'm grateful I still have gutters to clean.

I'll give an update after his visit.

I know someone on the list for an incident where he was living. It was a teenage girl who knew the quickest way to avoid supervision was to accuse the rule enforcer of putting his hand up her shirt. All she had to do was blow a bit of smoke and wait.

It was a he said, she said with no possible physical evidence and no accusations of such behavior at any other time. Unfortunately my friend was very naive and too broke to afford a good lawyer and believed the guy who told him not to worry about such a trivial matter. He wasn't sent to prison but he's on the list for the rest of his life.

None of us know enough about the case to judge whether or not the person poses any risk to the poster or society. If the poster is truly concerned, the court records would include details on the indictment, the court motions, the sentence, probation and parole conditions and possibly even a trial transcript. That's the source for information, not hearsay and innuendo.

I have met many people with convictions on their records and believe in giving them the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I have been taken a couple of times but overall, I have met many hard working people trying to make the best of a difficult situation and grateful for the opportunity to work. Bad choices from years or even decades ago haunt people forever and I don't need to contribute to a system that denies people the right to a stable living situation and suitable employment.

Linda, did he serve 6 years in jail? This man served 6 (6!!) years in prison. He wasn’t there for sticking his hand up a shirt.

Interesting situation. I too would be inclined to continue to provide the guy with an opportunity to make a living until I personally saw some reason not to. Either that he was unreliable or didn't do a good job or I observed some kind of unacceptable behavior.

I think it's going to be increasingly difficult for our society as more and more people can't get a job because of criminal background checks that are so common now. Granted there are some people with serious problems that you wouldn't want to employ at your company but there are others who made a mistake in the past that they are no longer repeating. Somehow they have to make a living - either by some kind of productive work, criminal work or government or charitable support.

I've read several articles about the difficulty in finding qualified candidates for employment because so many can't pass the background check and drug tests. It's an unfortunate situation all the way around.

I’m all for giving a second chances but aren’t the statistics really high of repeat offenses in cases like this? That would be my concern, even though I don’t have little ones myself, my neighbors do so I’d worry. On the flip side, if I didn’t continue to use his services I’d probably feel guilty because he was doing a good job.

This is a tough dilemma, but I'm a great believer in second chances.

I work in Recovery and many staff members have substance abuse and criminal backgrounds. My supervisor served a 12-year prison term and now goes to court with addicted offenders to offer rehabilitation vs prison pleas. Once he appeared in front of the same judge that sentenced him and they were both stunned. He always marvels at the circumstances that made it possible for him to change roles.

OTOH, you might be surprised at the ticking time bombs that are walking around without any records.

Hard to say. I am a believer in second chances, but I would not have him over when I was alone in the house and I would keep an eye on him. Compassionate but not naive. There are some yard service guys around where I live who are very sketchy, so I would hazard a guess that a lot of folks who do this kind of work have criminal backgrounds. It might be hard to find a "pure" service if you really checked into everyone on all of the crews out there. There are no guarantees in life, but armed with this knowledge you can be on the lookout for any hints of improper behavior. That's the reason for the registry.

I don't think Linelle herself is necessarily putting herself at any risk. I only was making the point, on second thought, that all else equal I don't want convicted sex offenders running businesses that service residential homes, for the safety of children ... whether they are my own children or strangers. And so I might not choose to support someone in that business by being their customer.

It's a little attenuated, I will give you that. And I can certainly see both sides. I do agree that people who are idle are very hard pressed to "right" themselves.

I think-- I could not give money to a person who harmed a child. Likely, profoundly.

Funkyart, I completely share your feelings on this subject. I at one time had a house painter who would get paid, go to a bar and get drunk, get into a fight, get arrested, go to court, cuss out the judge, and end up serving 90 days in jail. He was one of the best painters I've ever had - great prep work. I had no qualms about hiring him. He never drank on the job, and he only got in fights if drunk so I was not afraid of him.

But someone like the gutter guy who is on the Sex Offenders list is quite another matter altogether. This was not a minor, technical offense. And such people are never cured, thus the reason for the List. As a neighbor, I would be furious if someone invited such a person into the neighborhood, whether or not I had children.

As others have said, there IS a reason for this List and the restrictions put on such people convicted, even after serving a sentence. How do they support themselves? Well, that's really not MY problem! They should have thought about the consequences of their behavior before acting in that manner. But in my neighborhood? Absolutely NOT!

People on the sex offenders list may be serial rapists but most are not. Crimes that land someone on that list include not only serious felonies but misdemeanors such as underage girlfriend, peeing in public, pinching someone's rear or sex in a public place (remember the Florida spring breakers who had sex on the beach?...stupid yes but too risky for my neighborhood???)

This person served prison time so that was probably not a trivial matter but being included on the list is a consequence of being convicted of a specific offense, not an indication of risk. Someone who serves years in prison may end up on the list for 10 years and someone who gets off with a fine may be on the list for life. There are many cases of people who have been railroaded and sent to prison for crimes they didn't commit; it's hard to think of the consequences beforehand for the unfortunately misidentified or falsely accused person.

Lumping all types of misbehavior in the same group risks obscuring the dangerous few in a muddle of names and faces. There is a reason the FBI has a 10 most wanted list...not a list nearing a million names. Just as checking out past projects doesn't guarantee quality results on current projects, old convictions don't guarantee future issues. It is reasonable to check references before hiring someone but a blanket refusal to consider anyone who has a sex crimes conviction is an overreaction to the actual risk.

Yes. Mtn is right that there's no doubt that as a 54 yo woman *I* would not be in any danger .. but why would I bring someone who was convicted of a sex crime into my neighborhood and put him on my roof.. where he can look out and survey the neighborhood, see into windows and watch the bus stop around the corner?

Serving 6 yr is not a minor sex crime.. and we know that it involved a 14 yo girl. If you have doubts, there are sites that list the max sentence for crimes and it quickly becomes clear that it wasn't as "minor" as people have suggested.

I respect that others have different views and would handle it differently-- but I find it ludicrous to compare a convicted sex offender to someone who is mentally challenged! It's not even the same as comparing to someone who committed any of a number of other crimes. My response is not about this guy being a felon.. it's about the fact that he's a sex offender. He's on the registry because so many cannot be rehabilitated/reprogrammed. Some can manage the behavior.. for a period of time or perhaps forever.. few can stop the drive. It's statistically likely that sex offenders will repeat the offense. That gives me pause.

Again.. if you doubt me, go look at the list of sex crimes that have a maximum of 5-10 yr (because they do not always get the max.. nor do they all serve the full sentence). These are not crimes that I want see anywhere.. least of all in my own community.

Linelle,

It seems you have thanked everyone who responded to your post. Now I want to thank you for believing in "Dave" and "second chances". If life was fair I would have a criminal record, at the very least. Thank goodness some of my "less than stellar" moments occurred out of view of the law.

"Happy Holidays" to you - the season will be brighter because of the compassion you extend toward others.

This kid (well, adult, as he had just turned 18) made a stupid, stupid, stupid mistake in a fit of anger and is now on the sex offender registry.

Sexting Lands Teen on Sex Offender Registry

I don't know if this is the same teen as in the article, but many years ago, I was watching a story on GMA where they had a panel of high schoolers talking about social media, sexting, etc. One of the kids in the group explained what happened to him when he sent a nude photo of his girlfriend out to a bunch of people. He talked about how this was going to follow him for the rest of his life as he was required to be on the sex offender registry as a result because it was considered distribution of child pornography (incidentally, the girlfriend had taken the photo herself and sent it to him, but she was not charged with anything). However, not knowing the backstory on this particular case, one might see the boy in this story, who is now in his late 20s, on the sex offender registry for child pornography and make assumptions that he is some sick individual.

This thread remained me that I have not looked at the sex offender registry recently to see who is living or working around me. I was absolutely HORRIFIED to see that there is a woman living in my area who was convicted of raping an 11 y/o blind boy while she was a teacher's aide on Long Island. She was 42 at the time, married with two kids. On the registry, it just says 2nd Degree Rape - Person 18 y/o or older has intercourse with Under 15. She has an uncommon name so when I googled her, I quickly found the story. Amazingly b/c she plead guilty she only served 6 months in jail and 10 years on probation. She is no longer on probation (happened more than 10 yrs ago) but she is on the registry. What a sick, sick woman.

ourhighlandhome, thank you for your kind words. I'm still conflicted over this. I wish I could say I feel this surely is the right thing to do. I'm actually sorry I stumbled across this info about Dave. I wasn't looking for it. I daresay many of us have a skeleton or two in our closets, stuff we have done that we deeply regret and pray never sees the light of day. I'm a very imperfect individual. I'm working on that. I do respond to kindness and it helps pave the path to peace.

You respond to kindness. i bet Dave does too.

Linelle, rest assured that you are following the golden and platinum rules and playing an important role in his journey to redemption.

As you dont know the specifics of the case and you have not felt threatened by him, (and he does a good job), I would continue to employ him. The case was a long time ago. I’d definitely give him the benefit of the doubt.

That story about the teen who distributed the photo of his girlfriend struck a nerve with me. OK, this is a bit OT, but first of all I have no sympathy for how this is going to follow him around his whole life -- that was a disgusting thing to do, completely disrespectful of someone he supposedly has a loving relationship with -- a form of assault really IMO -- and isn't it going to affect the girl as well? As for her action in taking the photo of herself and sending it to him: why in heaven's name have our teen girls become so brainwashed that they have to serve themselves up sexually in order to be attractive? Not all are nude pictures, but I see a whole lot of provocative clothing and poses. This girl actually did nothing to be charged with, since I bet she had no expectation of the photo being passed around. Her only share of blame was in trusting this boy and thinking that was an appropriate thing to do. She hopefully has learned the lesson about consequences.

Actually, the girl committed the crime of producing and distributing child pornography, based on the interpretation of some prosecutors. If you want to read about a ridiculous case, look at this one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/21/n-c-just-prosecuted-a-teenage-couple-for-making-child-porn-of-themselves/?utm_term=.a05f823ace09

A pair of 16 year old teenagers were charged as adults for producing child porn by taking photos of themselves at 16 years old. Eventually the pair were allowed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor that did not require registering as a sex offender but it is still an adult criminal record for taking photos of their private, consensual sexual activity.

I don't care what age the participants are, sending nude or provocative pictures electronically is foolish. Photos that are never taken can not be leaked.