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New construction - how to know details of construction?

Jackie
6 years ago
I’ve seen across a variety of post where people have pointed out incorrect installation details. How does one know what to look for? We are building a custom home and I’m concerned I need to become knowledgeable on all details in order to know if something is done wrong.

What’s the best way to educate myself? And what do I let the builder manage? I want to be a responsible home owner throughout this process but don’t want to nag on every detail unnecessarily -but have to be able identify issues that matter.

Any advice on my best way to approach the home building process?

Comments (54)

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    6 years ago

    When you file your taxes, do you feel a need to understand the entire tax code or do you rely on professionals? If you have selected a good architect and builder, you can rely on them to handle the details and/or discuss them with you.

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    6 years ago

    "...I need to become knowledgeable on all details in order to know if something is done wrong..."

    No problem. Go to a good 5-year or 6-year architectural program, graduate; put in a minimum of 3-years working under the supervision of a licensed architect before applying to take your licensing exam; put in, say, 10-years of residential practice after obtaining your architectural license. That will be the starting point...then find a reliable builder and learn from her/him. :-)

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  • lookintomyeyes83
    6 years ago

    " the construction details that are important to you" <-- this should be ALL of them. From incorrect rebar (watching my Engineer explain specific rebar framing to my builder...), to incorrect HVAC (really, the HRV inlet/outlet is reversed during the final walkthrough?!) to 'ugly' aesthetic issues (like the paint peeling off your trim)....it should ALL matter to you - after all, you are paying for it all!

    The above said, choose which items you want to learn about, that concern you the most, and learn those first. Or do like me and stay up til midnight every night, researching and then emailing the contractor and/or building inspector and/or warranty rep and/or *whoever will listen* that YES, they did do X wrong, and here's the proof, go fix it!

    Seriously, I now joke my build cost my entire life's savings, and at least half my sanity. (Thankfully, a good lawyer saved some of my sanity for me :P )

    The above ranting/warning aside, here's a GREAT book to review - it's Canadian, so code may not be 100% the same in your area, but it's a great reference nonetheless.

    https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/61010.pdf

    Happy reading!

  • User
    6 years ago

    Hire the right people and forgo the crazy making. Spend the money on the right plan with the right people and you won’t need to play expensive catchup and always come in a day late and $2 short.

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    There is no way to know if you’ve hired the right people if you don’t know what right is.

    I initially read books on framing, electrical, tile, and plumbing. I read a lot of forums and JLC and Fine Homebuilding. I read a lot of the code books and always read manufacturers’ installation instructions. I have also read most of Building Science and Green Building Advisor websites. I calculate my own Manual J calculations to check the work of others.

    I also read all the research on theGreen Glue site. There are two fire research sites, too.

    Should we talk about all those architect-designed houses with stucco in the Midwest that were total losses? Hmmmmm?

    I have never regretted my knowledge, only my ignorance.

    There are countless people here who thought they hired the right people. They spent a lot of money. They got screwed. Then some jerk instantly tells them they must have cheaped out—but this is almost never the case.

    The only defense is knowledge. Without knowledge, you’re counting on luck.

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    6 years ago

    So Milly...with all your reading, do you know what details of construction to pay strict attention to...? That's the OP's question...

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    All of them—but the GOOD news is that construction progresses in a predictable way. :)

    1). Site.

    2) Plan: aesthetic, flow, cost, performance (water control and energy), and structural.

    3) Site prep and foundation. You don’t have to know the trick to, say, using lines and lasers to get a level foundation, or whether a skid steer or an excavator is better, or whether the operator is destroying the hydraulics on the excavator, but you should know the construction details of your plan, why they work, and what they should look like.

    Etc.

    You have to know enough to get the roof flashed right and keep your trim carpenter from mitering inside crown molding corners.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    6 years ago

    "Without knowledge, you’re counting on luck."

    Andrew Luck does residential design, but I don't think he is licensed and he lives in Australia. Another Andrew Luck is an architectural graduate from Stanford, but I think he's busy playing games in Indianapolis. David Luck is a licensed architect, but he lives in Australia too. Tony Luck lives in the UK, so you may be out of luck.

  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    6 years ago

    Some people seem to have a knack for finding the right repair person, hairdresser, doctor, GC; others are easily taken in and are duped. I have no idea what makes one person good at things and another not, but I know it is so.

    I would certainly start with a good architect and find out just what he does other than drawing up a nice house design for you. Will he be also writing the specs and other detailed instructions for the builder? Will he function as the Project Manager if asked to do so? Ask for LOTS of references but take them with a grain of salt - some people are loath to say anything bad about even someone who really screwed up their house. Ask me how I know this!

    Then find a good GC who specializes in building custom homes. TRUE custom homes, not homes built in a development. Again, talk to lots of people including his suppliers.

    If time is of the essence, be sure there is a "complete by" date in the contract and what happens if it's not met. You will need an experienced attorney to go over any contract before you sign it.

    All this is expensive and very time consuming. It can take YEARS before a shovel ever moves an inch of earth. Which is why, buying an existing house is often best for most people, even if it is going to be remodeled.

    I saw my parents build two houses when I was a child. I vowed then I would NEVER build a house, and I have not, but I have extensively remodeled two houses, my present house multiple times. NO regrets.

  • dbrad
    6 years ago

    Much like Milly Rey, I've spent countless hours learning everything I can from many of those same resources - that's a great list. The first place to start though is with your own house plan - have your architect include piles of detail and then learn it well enough that you could draw it with your eyes closed. Being knowledgeable about our plans has been so helpful, particularly during framing, electrical, and exterior finishing discussions.

  • taconichills
    6 years ago

    I knew nothing going into a very tricky build. I read like crazy before each section, asked countless questions in a nice way without pissing people off. I usually start a conversation with, " please forgive me, I'm just the dopey homeowner trying to learn."

    Common sense and good judgement go along way. Obviously the very technical stuff you are going to have to trust in others, but most of the stuff is not that difficult to see if its wrong or not done as well as should be. My best advice is be humble and polite to all. Even a little bit of a cocky condescending manner will surely burn you badly. Some of the subs look like that just got out of rikers, but treat them like kings and they will put love into their workmanship.

  • Jackie
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Appreciate everyone’s input. I believe we have the right builder. We are doing a Victorian Italianate infill in an old neighborhood, original house was built in 1886 and torn down somewhere between 1969 and 1985. We have a great architect that has done numerous houses in the neighborhood with a variety of builders. Our neighborhood has historical district designation and specific building requirements.

    I am trying to be diligent in the process and also have confidence in the builder. I don’t know, say for example, what properly flashed windows look like, but want to make sure the quality of work is good and accurate.

    We sold our home and are in an apartment that is one block from our soon to be new home and will be close to monitor the build process. I don’t feel it’s my builders responsibility to educate me on every detail, but want the make sure corners are not cut...

    I’ll check out those resources and am thinking I’ll take items as they are occurring. Looking for any other advice on how to spot issues or what to watch for.

    Thanks again, I’m sure I’ll be back with questions as this process progresses.
  • oliviag55
    6 years ago
    I hope you have the right guy/ woman.

    I have no idea what italianite Victorian is.

    in the end, you have to trust a few people. contractor architect, engineer.
    pick the most trusted person, as the flag, and move on. architect, engineer, consultant, inspector, etc..
    for us, it was our engineer, who was also a licensed GC. he was the base guy when something was questionable.
    keep an intermediary on retainer. you'll be out of the loop. a lot of people have a hard time communicating negative feedback to their contractor. hire someone to do it for you.
  • Suru
    6 years ago

    A Victorian Italianate! My absolute favorite style of house. I hope you post pics as you go along. Regarding what to educate yourself on, there is just so much to learn and I think it will be impossible. Some of the most important items like the foundation & framing generally take years of experience to understand the right and wrong way of doing something.

    Maybe get a good home inspector to come through periodically. Also, your architect should be a good resource to make sure things are done correctly, especially if you are building a replica home.

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Suru, I adore Italianates, too. Can’t get one here for south of $1 mil, if you’ll take a townhouse.

  • ILoveRed
    6 years ago

    Love your house style too. I hope you will share and let us follow your progress.

    We have been lucky. First, we had a great architect. Second, we have a great GC who happened to have been my dh's best childhood friend and our best man at our wedding. Hoping things continue to go smoothly..knock wood.

    We have had just a couple of major snafus. And they have been corrected.

    This board is a wealth of information if you take advantage of it. Don't waste too much time on google. It can drive you crazy. If you are worried about something being wrong, don't waste too much time or lose too much sleep...go to your GC and get to the bottom of it. You may be wrong and it may be something that just isn't completed yet or has a simple explanation. Or it may be something that needs to be corrected....the sooner the better.

    no offense to the previous posters but my advice is to be yourself in your interactions with your GC or your subs. Be kind and respectful but there is no need to be anyone other than yourself. My dh wanted to build this house but our builder and the subs know that I make most decisions and they treat me with respect and come to me with questions.

    I certainly don't know everything about building a home although I may know more than the average person. But, I don't need to know everything because I've hired people I trust.


  • worthy
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Informed by my reading of my father's textbooks and periodicals and his explanations of his surgical tools at the dinner table, I know my various surgeons have always appreciated my fine knowledge of their particular specialties and my keen suggestions for improvements and details they may have overlooked.

    No reason building a house should be any different.

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago

    Worthy, if you don’t pick your surgeon VERY carefully, unless you’re bleeding out, you’re nuts.

    Actually, finding good tradesmen is EXACTLY the same as finding the good doctors. Find one, and they can usually lead you to the others. A really good neurologist knows who the best orthopedic surgeon in his hospital is. The key is finding one good doctor first, and staying sharp.

    Medical mistakes are the third leading cause of death in the country. A doctor’s idiocy killed one of my grandparents. Another hospital nearly killed another—the home health aid was able to call for help in time. You joke, but incompetence is far more common than competence.

  • worthy
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    finding good tradesmen is EXACTLY the same as finding the good doctors

    Yes, and recommendations, referrals and seeing their work up close is the key. And you're right, the basics are not brain surgery.

  • just_janni
    6 years ago

    On many topics, the manufacturers' websites contain proper installation details for their products. Or professional associations like roofing / framing / counter / kitchen, etc.

    Will your architect be providing services during the build? If so s/he can engage in the details and ensure they are completed per plan / spec, as well.

    If you are doing something that is "out of the ordinary" and requires more care than normal, or using products that are not common, it IS in your best interest to learn about them because your subs may / may not be familiar and may /may not take the time to BECOME familiar.

    Having a good solid baseline of knowledge is empowering and enables you to have good communication with your builder. Mistakes WILL happen, and in my experience, the usual answer is that the homeowner will simply live with it. Often no one will call it out but the homeowner who is more familiar with the plans and details. Builders and subs often don't want to fix things - ESPECIALLY if they are "just cosmetic" and you'll have to decide what's important and HOW to get it done. Knowledge is helpful here.

    Your house style sounds like it's heavy on the details. You (and your architect) will need to remain especially vigilant in catching errors.

  • Jackie
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Here is front elevation. Original house on this lot would have had a third floor, but that was not in the budget. 11' ceilings on first floor, 10' on second. Also included the photo of the historical model we used for our design. Right now, we are planning on making it a painted lady, so would use 3-4 colors and take advantage of calling out the trim levels around the window and cornice more than the model.

  • PRO
    Columbus Custom Design
    6 years ago

    Hi Jackie - congratulations on your soon to be new home ! I highly recommend that you pair up with an experienced interior designer in your area in addition to your architect. An educated designer experienced in architectural detailing, custom cabinetry design and of course interior design will provide a wealth of valuable input.

    If they're not extremely well versed in cabinetry design ,adding an experienced kitchen and bath designer into the mix is never a bad thing.

    Good luck with your project !

  • cpartist
    6 years ago

    That's going to look really good. Are you adding interior details in the Victorian style too?

  • Jackie
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    We have spent the last year going into every house on the market in this neighborhood, most are Italianate or second empire, where the Victorians got their time and money to put into their homes is amazing. Unfortunately, we are short on both, mostly the money.

    We are purposefully not making it a completely open floor plan which would have held true to the style, but are taking an updated approach. We will have a house that more looks like what these houses look like now through the years with an more urban feel to it. Exposed brick wall in the dining room. Most fireplaces would have been coal burning at that time, so hard to replicate with a gas model, that we actually like. We are excited to do a claw foot tub in the master. I really would like reclaimed heart pine floors - but ya know...budgets. But will have 8' interior doors, large crown molding, high baseboards, arched door openings.

    We do not want someone to walk in and feel like its a generic house in the suburbs and are working with a designer to give us this old/new look.

  • Jackie
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Sophie - you figured me out: "You cannot control freak your way out of mistakes being made on any job. It doesn’t work like that. "

    I needed to hear that!

  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    6 years ago

    Take a look at <http://www.realflame.co.uk>; I have brought back two of these small coal grate gas fires from the UK in the past - very authentic looking and so realistic. I have no idea if they ship to the US or not, but these are fabulous gas coal fires.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    6 years ago

    Sophie - You speak with the voice of experience.

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago

    Sophie’s priorities are spot on. Those are the things that will be insanely expensive or impossible to fix later.

    Building Science and Fine Homebuilding are best for water control in my opinion, and Green Building Advisor and the Energy Star program for homes for air sealing details.

    Everyone on the project will make mistakes. Everyone. Including you, too, of course. The better people make fewer and less severe mistakes. There will also be mistakes just because you are doing something different than the norm. No matter how simple, if it is new, the chance for mistakes skyrockets.

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    6 years ago

    Ok...time to say it. It's good to be concerned about the details of construction. They are important. And it's good to read various sources for insight. They may be informative.

    But, let's face it: no consumer is going to know enough, and when the important time is, to be able to supervise and manage the timing and workmanship of most of the details on their house while under construction. Sorry!

    And if your house is a tract development, the builder may not even let you on the construction site, since s/he owns it and the consumer doesn't.

    Even for custom building, virtually no consumer knows enough to anticipate what's going to happen next and to be on-site when it does. Even with after the fact observation, most consumers don't know what they are looking at.

    What's the solution? Find experienced professional and tradespeople you trust and talk with them. Trust them until or unless something happens to end trust. And sure, trust but verify!

    When you have a dental, medical, financial or other sort of significant situation, do you find those whom you can trust to help you deal with your situation, or do you try to deal with it yourself?

  • Milly Rey
    6 years ago

    When my husband had appendicitis, I marched up to the nurse’s station in the ER and said, “He has appendicitis and needs to be seen now.” They had tried to put him in triage, because he hadn’t told them he had appendicitis like I told him to and only described his symptoms, foolishly trusting their expertise to do the right thing.

    Instead of waiting for hours with a”stomach ache,” he was whisked to the back. A 30 minute delay to the operating room, the surgeon said, and he would have had to do an old-fashioned surgery to open him up because his appendix would have burst.

    I knew enough to force my husband to go to the hospital (not the doctor’s office) when he wanted to stay home. I knew enough to get him on the operating table in time. I didn’t know enough to perform the surgery!!!

    So the answer is...yes.

  • cpartist
    6 years ago

    Boy Milly is there anything you don't know how to do or what to do?

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    6 years ago

    That's our Milly!

  • User
    6 years ago

    Why not world peace?

  • Ryan Snow
    6 years ago
    I am a professional and build Custom automation for various industries. People come to us because we are good at what we do. Honestly things tend to get worse when the customer micromanages projects. I can make judgement calls on where to spare expenses and where to just pay up.

    I am saying all of this because builders and architects are professionals as well. They know far more than I do than any amount of research I can do online. I am paying them because they have the expertise. It was my job to pick the ones I feel can do the hest job. Once that is done I leave the technical detail up to them.
  • Natalie H.
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I'm a professional who LOVES inquisitive and knowledgeable people. It makes my job easier in many ways but ultimately it results in much better outcomes for the people I work with.

    First of all I have to say that it's impossible to learn every detail of house construction on the fly. Accept the fact that you will not know everything. You will miss mistakes and make mistakes. Yet this should not preclude you from learning as much as you can under the circumstances. Multi-prong approach is best. These forums are great for learning from other peoples' triumphs and failures. Browse Amazon books on the subjects at hand - read reviews to select the best books geared towards advanced users. Ask questions from the people doing the job. Explore if there is a meet up in the area where you live or start one - discussion is a great way to learn from others. I'm convinced that even marginal increase in your understanding of architecture and construction will significantly improve the final result, your home.

  • PRO
    Summit Studio Architects
    6 years ago

    I've been learning for 30 years. I'm still learning.

  • User
    6 years ago

    ^^^Exactly. Knowledge of construction is a moving target. Technology and new materials has only increased that workload. A 60 hour work week is now an 70-80 hour work week by the time you count in reading journals, manufacturer’s websites, and technical articles. There is so much more MORE these days. You have to trust the tile person to keep up with his industry’schanges, and the plumber with his. An overview is all that a generalist will have time to do.

  • bry911
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    When my husband had appendicitis, I marched up to the nurse’s station in the ER and said, “He has appendicitis and needs to be seen now.” [...] I knew enough to force my husband to go to the hospital (not the doctor’s office) when he wanted to stay home. I knew enough to get him on the operating table in time. I didn’t know enough to perform the surgery!!!

    There is no way that a layperson can diagnose appendicitis. In reality you probably played the odds and got lucky. I showed this to my wife and she got a good laugh out of it. She informed me that 20% of appendectomies were performed on healthy organs, because appendicitis is that difficult for doctors with twenty years of experience to diagnose.

    Appendicitis is a differential diagnosis that requires labs, without labs you can't eliminate other likely causes of the exact same pain. Even an MRI (the most accurate method of diagnosis) is only 95% accurate, and I suspect that you don't have one of those in your garage.

    A doctor with 20 years of experience can't diagnose appendicitis accurately from home, and they understand that. If the Alvarado score gets high enough, and the labs don't offer a contradictory explanation, they will usually remove the appendix, but they still won't know for sure.

    -------------------------------

    All of this goes to a larger point that is actually on topic...

    Information isn't valuable without the education to process that information. I don't want to pick on Millie, but it is a perfect example of how a person with a little information and too much confidence in that information can make dangerous assumptions. Rather than micro managing I suggest you find good people and adopt a trust but verify mentality.

    In the end, you simply can't get enough education between now and the start of your build, so gather some information and discuss that information with your builder ,but make sure you are open to him educating you, rather than just you telling him.

  • PRO
    Summit Studio Architects
    6 years ago

    Save your energy for the 10,001 decisions you'll need to make from the color to paint the walls to the cabinet hardware. You will have more than plenty to do.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    6 years ago

    Take comfort in that you only have that many decisions. There are millions of decisions involved in the construction of a house, you only get 1%.

  • nirvanaav
    6 years ago

    Make sure your plans and documentation are in order, find a builder you trust and hope you live in a community whose building department and inspectors take their work seriously.

    Oh, you could learn to read your blueprints and carry a tape measure.

  • User
    6 years ago

    Our builder said the home we are building is better than a similar home built two years ago and one he builds two years from now will be better than ours. Building materials and requirements are constantly changing and unless you are in the building trade, it would be very difficult to stay on top of all of the details.

  • PRO
    Summit Studio Architects
    6 years ago

    I think most people in the building trades would say it's a full time job keeping up with changes to energy codes, new products, better construction techniques, sustainability, new zoning regulations, architectural review boards, historic preservation... the list goes on. And, most of it is worth it. We are building much better houses than even 5 years ago.

  • Natalie H.
    6 years ago
    Every trade and profession markets the latest and greatest developments as THE holy grail. Yet latest and greatest frequently has zero record only to be replaced with the new latest in greatest next year. Sometimes sticking with the known and old is just as good or better.
  • jmm1837
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Ultimately, the skills you need to be sure your build goes reasonably well are not construction skills but people skills. Finding and vetting the right architect and GC, treating them and their teams fairly and respectfully, and communicating, communicating, communicating, so that you and they are on the (mostly) same page. There will be foul ups, misunderstandings, the occasional do over. Be clear and firm about things that are important (in our case I had specified a particular kitchen sink, and caught the builder as they were about to template an entirely different one). At the same time, don't sweat the small stuff - no need to go ballistic over minor, easily correctable errors.

    The skills that get you the right designer and builder in the first place, that ensure they understand your vision, and that keep them onside, will be more important than understanding the details of building a roof.

  • David Cary
    6 years ago

    As a surgeon, I have to laugh outloud at both of you (Miley and bry911). I have over 1000 under my belt and 20% is a ridiculous pre imaging number, CT is far better than MRI and there have been several studies showing no difference in waiting up to 24 hours to do surgery.

    Old surgeons just love to tell people that 30 mins later and it would have burst! Makes the surgeon look good and makes the overly pushy spouse feel all high and mighty for being so brilliant!


  • bry911
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    David, I was just repeating info from my wife. She was talking about pre-imaging acceptable negative appendicitis rate (NAR), which was 15% to 25%, I did just verify that number as accurate. Again, while NAR has decreased with imaging, most people don't have imaging at home. Can you definitely diagnose appendicitis at a dinner party, without labs?

    ETA: Studies show the NAR is still as high as 12%, today, I am ignoring studies that look at severity and efficacy if antibiotic treatment which note an unecessary surgery rate geater than 60%.

    As for CT scans, my apologies, I thought they sort of fell out of favor for appendicitis.

  • homechef59
    6 years ago

    Jackie,

    You started in the right place. Ask questions on this board. There are a lot of resources available from the experts and those who have been on both sides of the hammer. We will tell you when it's something to really worry about.

    Respect is a two way street. Hire the best people that you can find. Let them do their job. Monitor what they do. Question things if you don't understand them. Ask if there is an alternate way of doing things. Be flexible. Trust, but verify. Understand that the really good professionals are always busy, but never too busy to answer a sincere question. If something doesn't seem right, ask about it. Don't be afraid to ask why? Question every one of your decisions by asking if there is a better way to complete something? When you are asked to make a decision, give it quickly and decisively. If you don't know the answer, tell them you don't know or don't understand.

    If you encounter something that you don't like, and you will, talk about it with the GC. Let your GC handle the subs. It's his job to yell at them, not yours. That's what they get paid to do. The GC gets paid to answer to your satisfaction unlimited questions. Try not to bother the subs too much. Always be friendly.

    A sense of humor will go a long way to get through this process.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    6 years ago

    I did a project once with a particular builder that was very talented and had a very talented crew. Whenever I ask about why he did something a certain way he would always give me a full explanation. If he started snickering during the full explanation, I knew he was feeding me a line of BS.