So there are plenty of examples of a concrete base going very badly. If you go that way, you need someone who does it often and knows what they are doing. If they go bad, it's usually a few years after they are installed so there's little recourse other than ripping it all out.

A solution I like is the cast iron base. These are durable, won't crack (like acrylic) and are solid underfoot. They even come with a built in seat if you want that. I've seen them with drain covers that look great as well.

Let's hope he knows more about plumbing than tile. He's obviously never heard of an uncoupling membrane.

House was built in 50’s on a concrete slab. Do you need a shower base or can you tile right on the concrete? We have tiled our current house. Used an acrylic base and tiled above it. Don’t want to use acrylic this time. Also interested in the linear drains. Concrete is already cut out so so we are starting from scratch for all practical purposes.

Concrete is porous. It will wick water everywhere and rot out your framing if you don’t propetly waterproof your shower. Plus, a shower floor has to slope. Not be flat.

Deb Stevens, so typically they put down a rubber membrane, and then pour the tile base on top of that. The are some good youtube videos of how to do it right.

That said, look at the cast iron bases you can get the linear drain option. I was in a hotel that used these and they look great.

Gets the slope right also.

I have no idea why you are so set against a base. The are easy to install, and reliable.

Tile Redi

geoffrey_b I haven't seen the Tile Redi in use. What I know is that the acrylic base that isn't tiled really suck. They crack.

Does anyone have experience with the Tile Redi or similar product?

I have a Tile Redi base - it's not acrylic. I used it on a cement slab. You can get them in all styles. Mine has a traditional curb, The sides are about 4" high. It has an integrated drain. You set it in mortar. Really solid. One day installation.

There are many waterproof shower systems available. USG, Laticrete, Kerdi, Wedi, liners, pans etc.. I'm happy to help folks on the forum with any of them. The one that I will walk away from and always advise against is Tile Redi. I have spoken with their tech dept. to get a answer to my concern. The base has a vertical flange 1/2" thick and instructions state to set the wallboard on the top of the flange then bonding tile to the wall board and the base flange spanning the joint. Video and instructions say to follow TCNA guidelines. I inquired as to what TCNA detail is used to span a movement joint between two separate substrates with a tile? A movement joint must be honored through the entire assembly. Tech's response was "it is what it is" When I get a quote like that from a tech department it's all I need to know. My preference would be a sheet membrane system as they are basically roofing system's that have been around since the mid 70's. A properly installed shower base will not crack. You may want to consider a different plumber.

I'm not an advocate for Tile Redi - I've just used their product successfully. They supply some metal flashing that goes behind the cement board, and over the 1/2" depth of the pan - looks sorta like a step. Worked well for me.

Tile Redi flashing

Creative Tile Eastern CT A diagram or illustration of what you are talking about would be helpful.

geoffrey, By no means am I directing my comment at you. I'm pointing out a specific product detail. The flashing you refer to has tile installed over the top. The movement joint is still there and the tile is bonded to two separate substrates. The metal may keep the water from going behind the pan but if the pan flexes or settles separate from the wall board you will have cracked tile. I have seen this often with tile bonded to a prefabricated shower base flange. The lack of detail from the tech dept is what scared me. I'm always open to a technical explanation but "it is what it is" just won't cut it when I have to stand behind my work.

@ jake - geoffrey posted a good link which I followed up on.http://www.tileredi.com/installation-materials/redi-flash-waterproofing-system

Notice the diagram at right. Tile would bond to both surfaces covering the metal.

Creative Tile Eastern CT: I'm not being argumentative, I'm trying to understand. And I get that you weren't happy with a flippant answer from their support.

That said, there is a vertical flange that has flashing over it. The tile would be bonded to the wall board and span onto the flashing, but not bonded to the base - isn't that correct or am I missing something? Any movement in the base would show in the caulk / grout line at the base / wall juncture but would not be a leakage issue.

The tile is also bonded to the base flange. That is the detail I question. To not bond at the base flange there would be 3" to 4" of tile floating. No I do not take your comments as argumentative.

Yeah, I'm seeing the large flange on that now.

I've heard of a lot of custom concrete bases going bad -- bad installs mainly. I like the idea of a water proof, correctly pitched pre-fabed base. So how do other bases deal with this issue?

Thanks everyone. I think we are going with the Onyx custom even though pricier than we planned. Thanks everyone! The state of affairs for now.

but if the pan flexes or settles separate from the wall board you will have cracked tile.

Just as a point of discussion - whatever installation - you need a floor that will meet the deflection requirements. I used mortal under my TileRedi pan - and it is solid.

You are correct that the tile is bonded to both surfaces, and would crack in the floor sagged - but with any design - flexing could cause leaks - especially at the curb.

The reason I used a pre-made pan is because I'm an experienced, DIY / engineer person. I did not want to learn how to construct a pan - for just one bathroom - I didn't want to own 'serial #1' :)

So for the $500 I went for the pre-made pan.

This is the reason for a flexible sealant joint where the wall tile meets the floor tile. The waterproofing system sheet or liquid under the tile will allow for movement. We are talking minimal amounts of movement but that's all it takes for a tile to crack. In comparison a USG system with a custom made shower base, wall board,drain, membrane complete for a 3x4 shower would cost approx. $650 yes you will need to apply the membrane to the base and seams. Geoffrey I fully understand your DIY reasoning.

I'm learning so much about these pan systems that I never would have without Houzz. Thanks Creative Tile & geoffrey!

Creative Tile Eastern CT: I can see that a custom shower base and such can be done for less money than a purchased base. For whatever reason, the details of a custom base seem to be problematic for a lot of people. There are multiple posts here of bad shower jobs - where they leak, the water doesn't drain correctly, etc.

I know that an experienced person could do this and do it correctly. But I'd rather pay the money for the base and get that part, at least, right.

There are other parts of that Tile Redi system that bother me: As a general practice you don't rely on caulk (even 100% silicone) to make something waterproof. The flashing shouldn't be an option where the wallboard meets the base.

Likewise I don't like how the "Tile Redi Niche" product is flashed. The flashing around the product routes water to inside the wall instead of to the outside. It depends on caulk in order to keep the water from going inside the wall. The base of the product should be flashed to move water to the outside. The sides should also have flashing on the outside IMO.

Jake there are surely plenty of shower disasters by DIY's and so called tile installers. I agree a shower is no place to gamble. It comes down to knowing your own abilities and following the manufacturer instructions. They all have installation videos. I agree caulk should not be relied upon for waterproofing. Which is the reason I don't use Wedi. Not that it doesn't work as may installers use it. To me it's just apply more caulk. A large portion of my projects are steam showers and Wedi requires coating the entire shower with a epoxy to achieve a acceptable perm rating. That's more work and more $$$. and it still won't have a perm rating as low as a USG foam board at .08

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEVzHaThVaEZYAK1xXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyN3NhdDk5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjQ3ODlfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=wedi+shower+systems&fr=fp-yie10-s#id=4&vid=60ebeb2aa6b7f6e2d25b95579483faf1&action=view

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrBT9vzUhVaNFQAThdXNyoA;_yl

http://www.durockshowersystem.com/en/products/custom-shower-tray.html

A basic sign of a weak foam board is the need for washers to prevent the screws from pulling through. Again not that it doesn't work but a factor to consider when selecting a waterproofing system. Advances in technology and products available today is difficult to keep up with. Time spent on research is key to what works for the individual and jobsite requirements.

CTECT:

Does "weak foam board" have any real world meaning after the tile is installed and used? Has anyone ever punched a hole through a properly tiled foam board wall?

If the answers to those questions is "no", then doesn't the inherent waterproofing, lightness, ease of installation and subsequent lower cost make foam board the better product?

Joe: I do feel foam boards are the better product. You may spend a few more bucks but the ease of use, time savings and already water/vapor proofed easily justify the cost. My intended point of noting washers was to bring to attention the differences in the foam boards themselves. When installing tile on a foam board with low density the board itself goes in as your pressing the tile into the mortar making it difficult to adjust lippage. All the systems work following Manufacturers instructions. The quality differences between them are substantial and getting a higher quality system for less money is what I found. Those who fall for marketing aimed at 1 color are short changing themselves. See how I did that without naming a specific manufacturer:)