Even though no one commented, I wanted to share what I learned incase it should help anyone else.

I had heard that Gaggenau had the better combi steam oven, but it turns out that Miele has now caught up. I'm being told that since Miele has all the same features now (broiler, plumbed, etc), Gagg is no longer the better oven. This isn't to say that Gagg isn't great or as good, but it's just not superior.

I was also wondering if the xxl would take longer to heat up, but I went to the showroom and we preheated the xl and xxl and they both got to temperature at almost the same time.

We are getting the Miele.

To correct one point in your first post, "...XXL combi. The cavity is wider and taller." My understanding the is cavity is not wider.

Online specs for the cavity are non existent, however the outside dimensions are easy to look up, both are 24" wide (exact figure is 23-1/2, advertised as 24"), XXL is 24 ins. in height, XL is 18 ins. height.

How does one know the cavity width is the same? Look at the accessory trays, the same models are spec'ed for the XL and the XXL. The racks which hold the trays are (have to be) spaced the same distance apart horizontally, and the usable width is the same in each model because the same trays are used.

Another point to make is a similar gagg model will be 2 -3 times the retail price of a Miele. I'm generalizing here for all gagg vs miele models. Is that huge price difference between a miele and a gagg worth it?

Thank you Future and Sherri!

Future.. I was pulling out my hair trying to find out the size of the xxl cavity. If you call Miele (or even their showrooms) they don't know!!!! Miele, if you are listening, that was a huge turn off!!!

I finally found a showroom that had a salesperson with a tape measure.. and voila, I finally got the information. And yes, it's not wider ;)

Sherri, thanks for that tip!!! The XXL is taller, so I'm guessing that would put the bottom right around counter height.

In calling the showrooms, they mostly recommended placing the top aprox 64 inches high. But, when I talked to another rep, who really seemed to know his stuff, he recommended putting it lower if there was no lower oven to consider. He pointed out you want to be able to stir etc without having your elbows hit the hot oven door. Of course, you don't need to worry about that with Gag.

I'll find my notes and post the measurements here to help anyone else avoid spending HOURS on the phone like I did (DO YOU HEAR THAT MIELE :)

Oh, they also said now Miele self cleans too.

I know Mieles reputation is excellent, but I will share that we had a DW installed in a old house and Miele was of no help with the problem we were having. I didn't fight with them because we were moving, so I am a little hesitant going with a mostly Miele kitchen.

Now I need to compare the Miele and Gag induction cooktops.

> Oh, they also said now Miele self cleans too.

This is not true for the Miele combi steam ovens, XL or XXL. They can rinse --after using a steam function -- and you can set to automatically rinse after using a steam function. Keep in mind rinsing and cleaning are not the same thing.

Miele's pure convection ovens do have a self-cleaning function.

Thanks Future! This is why it's so hard for me to choose.. the appliance reps don't always understand their own products. ARGH!

Is cleaning it a big deal? I'm assuming it's just a once in a blue moon thing when you have some splatters?

> Is cleaning it a big deal?

If I were to answer it would be from my point of view, in the bigger context I do not often use the oven with things that splatter, and so little cleaning experience. I do steam a lot and have to descale every few months.

I'd refer you to three things:

1. The long and insightful Miele Combi steam oven owners' thread, has loads of real life usage and comments on cleaning. Helpful when I first go into it.

2. The owner's manuals, available from the Miele USA website for each product model. Main thought here is follow the instructions to the letter, the interiors have a specific surface treatment (Perfect Clean or whatever they call it) and require specific steps to clean. Don't use shortcuts or 'home brew' remedies! The surfaces really are easy to clean if you follow the instructions.

3. Attend some of the 'clinics' (a.k.a. training sessions) at any Miele experience center. I found these very helpful, I was new to combi steam cooking. The sessions are not just for cleaning, lots of great tips, insights and usage demos. Alternatively, if you cannot attend look for youtube videos on how to clean (Look for the Miele ones, not the people touting shortcuts and home remedies.)

P.S: One more insight. Right after typing the above I cleaned a 'Universal Tray' that was used twice today. That tray comes with all the 24 in ovens, has a so called 'prefect clean' surface -- not intended for cleaning in a DW, so hand washing -- and true it it's name it took under 60 seconds to clean off baked on oil and other brown food residue. The perforated trays and pans, which is almost all of them, do not have a Perfect Clean surface are intended to be cleaned in a dishwasher.

Thanks future! I thought I'd come back and share my hands on experience at the Miele showroom.

I was hesitant to choose Miele over Gagg, because even though I wanted the bigger size, I was hearing the digital menu system was a royal pia in to navigate vs the simple Gagg knobs. For those of you who don't know me, I have the attention span of a tsetse fly!

Well, the Gagg knobs were fabulous and the oven was significantly easier to operate than I had expected. It's appealing.

But, wow, there is a new digital menu version available now for Miele and it was very very intuitive and easy to manipulate. I have ZERO concerns now!!! Maybe their other menu system is fine too, but this is definitely fantastic.

Now I feel the only thing I'll miss is the self cleaning oven with concealed top heating element (and side opening door!!!) It will be missed, but the size is worth the trade off for me.

Hope that helps someone!!

Thanks for updating this post! It is very helpful, CATS.