Need a solution for bad gutter design.

6 years ago

Hi. This is a cross post from porches and decks. We're building a beach house in New Jersey with a porch on the second floor. Unfortunately, the builder didn't consult us regarding drainage and installed a system that we find unsightly. Essentially, the porch is pitched to drain into two 4" square pipes that stick out of the side of the house. It then flows into a side gutter which runs into a downspout that connects to an underground drain. It looks like an after thought instead of a well conceived design. I can't stomach the cost to take the porch apart to install a proper drain that goes straight into the downspout at the back of the house, not to mention that I know have 2 big holes cut into the siding.

I was thinking we could remove the gutter and to the existing outlets, attach some decorative scuppers which would project around 6"-8" from the wall. The builder insists that this will cause holes in the landscaping and damage to the foundation from water pouring out of the scuppers. I have a hard time believing this since the porch is only open on two sides and has a large overhang, though it does face northeast. Another option would be to somehow box in the gutter with azek trim, but that might look even worse. I really need a creative solution. Can anyone help? TIA

(Of course, we could leave it the way it is. Once the landscaping goes in and the fact that we won't really use this side of the house, it could be a non issue. If you think that's the best option, please share your thoughts!)

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PPF.

6 years ago

You will need to post images so we may see what you see.

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Comments (18)

Milly Rey
6 years ago
Rain chains to catch basin to underground pipe.
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This solution would take a bit of effort, but you may be interested... Basically, you're going to end up with a "drain pipe" connected to the bottom end of the downspout, and that drain pipe is going to go all the way to the curb. First, you will need to burrow under the concrete walkway. Luckily, it doesn't look like it's overly wide. :-) Probably the easiest way to do that is with a piece of PVC pipe into which you stick your garden hose with the water running. Keep pushing the pipe until it comes out the other side of the walkway. (Obviously, you'll need a piece of pipe that's long enough.) If you have another way to do this, go for it! :-) Once you're on the other side of the walkway, you can run the new drain pipe under your front deck. You won't need to worry about burying it because the deck will hide it. Once you are at the "outside edge" of the deck, dig a little trench into which you will put the new drain pipe to hide it. I can see that your driveway is much wider at the street side than at the garage door. So, if you don't have a sidewalk (it looks like you don't), you can just keep the trench going until you get to the curb -- just route it around the wide end of the driveway. You can then either bore through the curb, or just have the drain pipe resurface on your property's side of the curb and have the rain flow out over the curb and into the street.
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Thank you for all of the thoughtful responses! I do hear you on the capacity, and potential splashing on the half-rounds. I touched base with my architect, and he thinks that the K-style will be the simplest solution, and will look fine with the style. Probably best to go with that, being most effective financially and functionally. Good point about gutters over the entrance tibbrix. I'm thinking, though, that on our design, the front porch may not be a major issue...we will use the stairs on the right end of the porch to access the front door (on the rare occasion that we don't use the side door). We will have a gutter over the side door. Also, the front porch will only have the rain landing on the 7ft depth of that roof, because the large gable above should divert everything from the main roof to the ends of the porch. Is that a reasonable assumption?
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" I would attack’s it with a sponge at least to see if you can clean that up." You do that and you own the entire thing, make him clean it up better. Sooner the better as grout hardens over time. Also as alluded to above he needs to remove the grout at all chnages of plane and use 100% silicone caulk.
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How closely does rain gutter color need to match exterior trim color?
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Thank you again Lori! I actually answered this last comment of yours with a longer reply but then edited it to correct a hanging parenthesis. Poof! I did everything all right, but the whole thing disappeared anyway. My laptop is in need of a tune up and it's getting a bit glitchy! I wanted you to know I deeply appreciate your thoughtful replies though, so I'm re-writing it (and the boiled down version, here, is more brief--so that's better). Replying to you helped me to ferret out my own thinking process and formulate a plan. I learned something by asking you about the gloss (that it tends to dissipate over time) but I agree...I don't really like "glossy" on the exterior. (And even if it dissipates, there would be areas which could be seen but would be a little more protected from weather and those would stay glossy.) I've realized, without rationalization nor denial, that the difference is only slight in color. I know myself very well: My brain is wired to first and foremost see discrepancies. It sees discrepancies as severely different at first. Yes, it tends to make me a discriminating (okay, "very picky") person (LOL) but over time my brain adjusts and I see more factually how much of a differential really exists. (Being able to see discrepancies so clearly makes me good at analyzing things, so it has its helpful uses!) Knowing this about myself, I placed the samples at a spot in my home which I walk past multiple times per hour so I'd see the samples suddenly and without thinking about them first. Thinking about other things as I went about my day, my eyes landed on the samples without anticipation of seeing them, and my brain told me they are the same color. This happened 3 times. Only upon closer, conscious glances did my brain say, "Oh, those are slightly different." So, perhaps I could live with the color and, as you say, move on! :) I appreciate the comments and, folks, please keep 'em coming if you have something helpful to add. There may be a new idea out there that can re-shape my thinking and help me to distill my best solution. On Monday, I'm going to call and ask some questions: 1. Can the gutter company provide the COLOR of the High Gloss White in a low gloss finish? 2. If not, can the gutter company factory-paint with my paint selections from Benjamin Moore's Aura line, perhaps with an additive to harden the paint? ...and also... 3. Can we identify places on my home where downspouts cross over the body of the house, if any, and have the gutter company paint those pieces of the gutter system a second color, to match the body of the house? Thank you Lori and everybody. I really appreciate your time!
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cheri127
Original Author
6 years ago
Oops! I can't believe I forgot the picture!

Rain chains to catch basin to underground pipe.

I thought of rain chains but can't picture them in real life. Maybe once the landscaping is done, I can make them blend.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
6 years ago
Cheri127:

I like the builder's details more than yours.

It's possible to retrofit your way out of the side drain, but it's going to be an expensive PIA.
cheri127 thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
just_janni
6 years ago
I think it looks pretty damn GOOD!

It looks like the porch is catching the roof too - but can't see the roof edge.

This appears to be a thoughtful design to try to get the water captured and then away from the house - this will serve your foundation well. It's encouraging to find a builder that seems to care about that!!!
cheri127 thanked just_janni
cheri127
Original Author
6 years ago
Yes, the builder is very good and quite obsessive about water intrusion. No complaints there at all. I just wish the drain could have been integrated into the back downspout under the porch floor. That's how it was pictured in the architects drawings.

DH is insisting we box it in but I really think that will look worse. At least this set up looks like it has a purpose. A random protrusion there will look very odd IMO.
User
6 years ago
Function rules over form any day of the week when water intrusion into your home is on the table. Paint it to match the siding and it’s fine.
PRO
Virgil Carter Fine Art
6 years ago
If the downspout from the upper roof is interrupted at the horizontal gutter from your second floor porch, and isn't continuous all the way to the ground, you can expect a lot of splash back and over flow outside the horizontal gutter, with the deterioration of siding and trim in the over flow area with time.

Looking at the photo, I'm wondering why you didn't simply make the side of the upper porch an open railing, like the lower porch, and avoid any need for a horizontal gutter there. Then the downspout could have been continuous as well.
cheri127 thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
Milly Rey
6 years ago
Rain chains are wrong for the house!

His version is better than yours. :) In an ideal world, it would look better going from the back left corner, if the roof is hipped, but the improvement is minimal.
cpartist
6 years ago
I don't see a problem.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
6 years ago
Pull the ugly gutter off the porch drain. Install Raiinhandlers there. They will turn any porch drainage, and there isn't going to be much, into mist.
cheri127
Original Author
6 years ago
Looking at the photo, I'm wondering why you didn't simply make the side of the upper porch an open railing, like the lower porch, and avoid any need for a horizontal gutter there.

It was originally a railing but the builder was having a hard time reconciling the railing with the porch roof. He insisted he needed a wall there and I thought having a wall on both sides would look better than a wall on the back side and a railing adjacent to it. A simple shed roof and a porch with a railing was my preference. The architect designed the more visually interesting and very expensive gabled roof line, which in my opinion was unnecessary since it's only 16 feet to the rear of the property. (Best not to get me started on all the reasons the porch roof is all wrong). It really belongs on a house with an acre of garden behind it but DH loved the detail so it stayed. The neighbors on the next street over can enjoy the perspective. Lol!

you can expect a lot of splash back and over flow outside the horizontal gutter, with the deterioration of siding and trim in the over flow area with time.

I was concerned about that as well. I'll have to talk to the builder about it.

Thanks for all the help!
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
6 years ago
Has it rained yet to see how the present system works?
cheri127
Original Author
6 years ago
It poured yesterday but unfortunately I wasn't there. It looks like this could be remedied with either a funnel or a splash guard. I'll make it a point to be down there the next time it rains and get a video.
PRO
Virgil Carter Fine Art
6 years ago
Another approach to eliminate the gutter and have one continuous downspout is to simply create a continuous gap of, say three inches, between the roof decking on the second floor and the otherwise solid handrail, for the full width of the deck, if it's needed as the builder says.
cheri127 thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
Milly Rey
6 years ago
Oh, weird, Virgil! I didn't see that.
cheri127
Original Author
6 years ago
That's an interesting thought.
Milly Rey
6 years ago
Virgil, there are also linear porch drains. I'm using one on a project.

Need a solution for bad gutter design.

PPF.

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Milly Rey

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