Parents always SAY they would want to know, but they really don't. Just
stay out of it. You, as The Messenger, might be "killed" by indignant
parents. And no, all teens do not try pot.

An amazing number of parents just don't want to be bothered, or feel that this is just part of being a teen.

(And I also realize how naive my "They would tell me" comment sounds;
readers are probably chuckling!!; but I stand by it, hahaha.)

Yeah, my kids told me way more than I wish to hear.

I'm a bit nonplussed to hear people say they've never tried alcohol, or
cannabis, or this or that. It leaves me unsure as to what the message is
and why it is being sent.

Here's the message: People like to justify their actions by saying, "Everyone does it." That's simply not the case. My four siblings and I were all together not too long ago, and the subject came up -- not a single one of us drank alcohol before we were legal, nor have any of us ever used any illegal drug -- we're all past 40 now, so there's no reason to lie about it.

Again, the point: To counteract the "Lay off, everyone does it" philosophy.

Honestly,
if I had to choose, I’d rather kids get stoned than drunk. Probably
because my father was an alcoholic and he was a MEAN drunk. But
marijuana just relaxes & mellows. Hard to say.

Fallacy of forced choice.

Mrs S this clearly is weighing on you. Here's how you can possibly
handle it. You can speak to the three mom's that you know. "Hi Mrs. T,
your son J came with a large group of trick or treaters. There was a
heavy smell of pot wafting off the group.

That's a good option.

I finally did, because I cared for the boy and all the other drivers on
the road. Long story short? She didn't believe me, and I lost one of
the best friends I ever had. These parents either already know, or
won't believe you.

No, she wasn't a friend.

One summer night, after midnight, I heard a car pull up next door and
saw a new neighbor's late-teens son being dropped off on their front
lawn. He was unconscious.

Something similar happened to one of my students -- its been years ago. He and his friends skipped school and were out riding around. The kid began to seize -- no clue what drugs were involved, but it was either an allergy or a combination of things that shouldn't have been combined. His friends dumped him in a ditch and drove away. He died there.

Yeah, he was a booger, but no one deserves that. Think his mother would've appreciated a call when he was just starting down this path?

I'm not sorry I called the mother. I could not have lived with my decision if the boy did have some 'condition' other than intoxication.

I'm thinking that if this had happened when our former neighbors lived next door, I would not have *needed* to call. I knew that neither son was diabetic or whatever. Moreover, that mother or father would have been waiting up.

I had not thought of this until now. Maybe the new neighbor felt 'accused'.

I think a little pot when walking around with friends is very different from drunk driving and harder drug abuse. Is it considered a gateway drug? I know a lot of people who smoke pot but have never touched anything else.

Question to the parents, as I am not one. What do you do if your 15 year old smoked pot? How does this knowledge help prevent tragedies? Do you punish them, forbid hanging out with those friends? Do you talk to them about the dangers of drugs? Shouldn't that have been done anyway? Is it just background knowledge to watch for troubled behavior in the future?

I assume kids who drink or do drugs know they shouldn't. Punishing them seems like a good way to make sure they will be more careful to hide it next time, and you lose an avenue of communication. I do see the benefit of knowing in terms of keeping an eye on future behavior, though.

Nothing is more unpleasant than hearing what you don't want to hear, chisue. You did the only thing that was right. Even if he was just drunk, that could have ended badly too,

Chi, by the time your child is 15 it is too late to affect his or her decisions about drugs, alcohol, sex. At that age the peer group has far more influence than the parents. It is best to discuss and shape thinking around these kinds of issues long before they become realities in your child's life. I have always explained our families position on these matters at any opportunity at almost any age (in an age appropriate way.)

Of course you should not try to control a 15 year olds behavior through punishment (you should't try to control a young child's behavior through punishment either, but you know that).

You need to discuss with this hypothetical 15 year old child what the actual real life consequences of smoking pot can be (and no it is not just harmless- ask your pediatrician for the latest studies on how pot smoking affects children.)

Your child needs to be aware of what being arrested for possession could mean to her future also. And then, you just keep watching and praying that your child will be a responsible user and outgrow this stage (most do, I am told.) It's not a risk I would be willing to take tough, so we are a no drugs family (and no drinking to get drunk either.)

In general my thinking is that is you need to escape what is in your head to have a good time or feel good, then you need to change what is in your head, so that you can have a good time and feel good without any mind altering substances.

"Here's the message: People like to justify their actions by saying, "Everyone does it." That's simply not the case. My four siblings and I were all together not too long ago, and the subject came up -- not a single one of us drank alcohol before we were legal, nor have any of us ever used any illegal drug"

To me, an "everyone does it" comment is a weak adolescent (or younger) argument akin to "that's not fair". It's not serious, valid, or threatening to hear, so I remain nonplussed and wonder what's the point of making a comment like "I never.....". You and your four siblings would be a first for me because I don't believe I've ever known anyone who could make the statements you say apply to all of you.

"by the time your child is 15 it is too late to affect his or her decisions about drugs, alcohol, sex."

Rita, I have to disagree with you here. All of my kids are older than 15 now - they're all older than 25- and we continue to contribute (and seem to have accepted) our comments to them. You do have to pick your spots.

If a 16 year old in my household had been doing something I thought to have not been in his or her best interest, I would have let them know and told them what I expected from their own assessment of the matter. However, any such comments would have been based on my own views of these things which are somewhat different in part from what some of you have said about your own views. We tried as parents to balance our own views with our own conduct when we were their particular ages and not have higher standards for them than we would have been able to meet ourselves. To me, that was the "be fair" part. We often told them that when it was applicable and that seemed to give our comments more respect and greater weight.

Elmer, I was unclear. Let me try to untangle this a bit. And while I can usually express myself well enough, this topic is much trickier since parental relationships and family norms are very personal and I am loathe to sound like a know-it all with irreproachable children.

"All of my kids are older than 15 now - they're all older than 25- and we continue to contribute (and seem to have accepted) our comments to them. You do have to pick your spots."

Yes, absolutely, I understand what you are saying and hope/expect to be in the same position in the future. BUT I don't think you gained this influence on your children late in their upbringing.

Put simply, the director of my children's pre-school explained something she called the parenting V. She said when your children are very young, you have a great deal of influence over their lives. That is the time they are at the bottom of the V and you control a lot of the inputs in their lives. As they get older, you control fewer inputs and they have to operate according to their internal controls.

Eg: One of my friends could not get her daughter to wear proper footwear when the child was eight years old and had developed plantar fasciitis from wearing shoes without any support. This girl did not learn to respect her mother's opinion any more by the time she was a junior in high school and making decisions that would harm her college prospects significantly.

If your child does not respect you when she is little, she will not respect you when she is big. There are plenty of people who once they are adults, look back and see the error of their ways, but it may be too late by then.

And you see, this is hard to write about because the word respect could be taken the wrong way here. I do not mean respect as in, I am your parent and you will do what I say. I mean respect as in, you are my parent and I know you and I have the same goals. I can hear what you say and take it in and maybe I'll disagree sometimes and maybe you'll change your views sometimes, but we are on the same team- and of course if you say I need to wear different shoes, then you probably know something about shoes I don't, so I'll listen (most of the time, even if I don't acquiescence in the heat of the argument.)

So of course if a 15 year old crosses a line, you have to deal with the problem according to your family's values.

But the strongest tool you have is the relationship you have built over the years. Does your child feel that you know and understand him? Does your child believe your rationale for abstaining from whatever it is you believe should be abstained from? Does your child trust you to have his best interests at heart and not some dogma of yours? Are you flexible enough to bend when you need, yet firm enough to provide strong guidance when you need? Are the consequences in your household fair and consistent? Do you still play with your children, share your passions and interest with them, include them in your social life?

I am not perfect. And my children are not perfect. But we have a strong relationship where my children feel known and respected by their parents. And in turn, our children share our values.

You have to cultivate a relationship where you and your children can hear one another and respect one another from the time they are little. Otherwise, you can wind up with a 15 year old who makes decisions that are outside of the norms you have tried to establish and I don't think you will have much influence at that point.

I hope that incredibly long response clears up what I was trying to say.

And Elmer, when you said this: "You and your four siblings would be a first for me because I don't believe I've ever known anyone who could make the statements you say apply to all of you." Did you mean you do not know people who abstained from drugs and excessive alcohol when they were young? Really, you didn't?

No, I would not. Now if it were a family member or close friend, I would be comfortable in talking to them and tell them that I was concerned. An acquaintance is going to resent your interference and be angry. You would accomplish nothing. I also doubt it is the first time these teens have tried pot. Most likely their parents have smelled it before. I would keep my nose out of it.

If you would not inform a parent that a minor came to your door in a group that reeked of pot...what *would* prompt you to 'say something'?

I'm not saying *I* would say anything in this instance; just wondering what would push you beyond, "I won't interfere." When are we 'busybodies', and when is it appropriate to speak up?

Chisue, I would be prompted to say something if I smelled alcohol on them and they seemed drunk, especially if any were of driving age. Drunk driving is obviously a problem on it's own but so is alcohol poisoning, especially for young, inexperienced drinkers.

It is appropriate to speak up when someone will be listening. If you are only somewhat acquainted with the parents, basically a cordial "Hello" they are not going to listen to your parenting advice. They might become hostile with you.

Since this was a group of about 8 , are you sure ALL of them were stoned? Would you be informing the correct parents with this information?

Also, are we assuming that the parents disapprove? There are some parents that condone the pot use and may use it themselves.

rita, I think there are a lot of ways to raise kids and I think maybe you and I have different notions of what's comfortable and can be a successful approach. There's no one right way to go. For us, from the time the kids became able to handle this, we tried to teach them what may be called outcome based thinking. Rather than thinking of what you want to do, think of the outcome you want your action to lead to and choose the action that gets you there. And what outcomes you don't want your actions to lead to and avoid those. Sometimes rules are involved, not always and sometimes rules are followed, not always. For me, respect for parent advice develops over time from a history of giving good advice, not a history of obedience. This doesn't work for all kids, nor for all parents, but it's what we've done

Drinking alcoholic beverages doesn't necessarily mean drinking to excess. My kids were all were given wine and beer at home from primary school ages on, to taste while eating, so not even they could be described as waiting until the legal drinking age. I'd like to think we cultivated notions of responsible enjoyment for a food and not drinking for inebriation. Again, there are lots of approaches. And recreational drugs? That was a given where I was, just like drinking alcohol and in college if not before. But for me and hopefully too for my kids, it was done ever mindful of consequences of actions and with care to avoid undesired outcomes.

I hope Mrs S gets back to us and tells us what she has decided. We are a diverse group in our thinking on this one.

Greetings Mrs S,

How about paying the moms/(dads?) a visit, discussing various topics, including this one and deciding as you go how much to reveal of the experience that you had?

Or you could, in discussing the events of trick or treating, mention that one group that appeared were reeking of pot ... including that they were teens, and being more specific depending on the reaction that your story was eliciting?

Playing it by ear.

What is it that they tell us that so often we are not good at listening? It does gain respect for us ... and our viewpoint.

Then we can proceed as seems wise, depending on the experience that is being developed.

ole joyful ... who doesn't know what pot smoke smells like, either ...

... might that be one more function of being really old/out of touch?

Chi, what is the difference between being intoxicated with alcohol and being intoxicated with pot? Even below "obviously drink" levels, judgement and reaction times are impaired with BOTH drugs -- not something we should be lightly dismissing in teenagers who are out on a night when there is a high incidence of very impaired drivers on the road. IMO

A similar situation came up with a friend of mine....when she finally found out, she asked me if I had heard it, and I said I had and supposed she knew....she had not and was not too happy because I had not told her........so it is a slippery slope either way you go.

Mrs. S. These kids may well be behind the wheel of a car in another year or so. Raee_gw has said pot will affect judgement and reaction times and I agree. If it was me I'd find a tactful way to tell the parents what happened. I'd also try to tell both parents together. I know some parents won't react well towards you as the messanger, but I would know I was doing what was right, at least that's what I believe. ..now what the parents choose to do with the info is out of your hands but hopefully they choose to help their kid thru this before they are given the car keys.

Well, I'm here, reading all this and taking it all in. I really appreciate all the comments, and I understand there are different points of view, etc. Within the last 10 posts or so, the things that resonate with me the most are Elizabeth's comment that perhaps some parents don't care about the casual drug use. For myself, I have a really, really hard time understanding why, even if people think pot smoking is a great idea for themselves or adults in general, they think it's acceptable for kids to do. But my eyes are opened every day, now my kids are in teen-age land, to what other parents now find acceptable. And it is not for me to be judge-y, I guess, maybe the drugs and alcohol permissiveness somehow lead people to a better life! Whatever!

I'm not concerned about recriminations against my kids. They are quite sturdy and have strong, non-drug using friend groups. Besides, I see the smokers more as kids who are looking for friends and trying to fit in --which my kids are not struggling with.

Elmer, my goodness, are you kidding you ply your children with alcohol when they are underage? I am speechless. In my state that is absolutely illegal, with fines and jail time spelled out in the penal code. For myself, I feel it is important to emphasize to my kids that we are law-followers, and don't pick and choose laws abide by and those we flout and cheat. Perhaps your state is different? Or it was a long time ago? Or you are from another culture?

Not many who have tried drugs as teens, or who seem ok with knowing their kids will try them, seem concerned about their kids getting caught by the school or the police. Do those who sort of condone this underage usage (or who are resigned to it, anyway) lecture the kids about how to not get caught? Are your kids made aware of the legal differences between being intoxicated and being in possession? And the "outcome-based consequences" of telling the authorities where they obtained it? I'm truly curious about this aspect of parenting the kids? Do you all monitor or care which dealer they obtain their alcohol and drugs from? If the police came to your door, would you help your kids hide their stash? I honestly don't mean it sarcastically, just want to know how far this is thought through?

The world is not black and white, their are tons of gray area. I do appreciate that you all have different perspectives, and maybe some of your views are based on experience and are well-thought out. I love it! It is like another culture for me (and Rita, I think!)

As for my dilemma, I did hear from another friend that the kid I know best from that group of stoned trick-or-treaters, has 2 older brothers that had quite the stoner-reputation when they were in high school. Now, with that, I feel the parents don't need my observations. They already know or must know....

I doubt Elmer plied his children with alcohol ;-)

I was brought up in a culture where drinking wine at the table, or having a sip of your parents's digestive or aperitif was the norm. Young children were served a wine glass filled with water and a splash of wine. As children became older they would have a finger or two of wine in their glass.

In Europe this is considered the way to bring up children who treat alcohol like a normal part of life and do not overindulge. There are generations upon generations of adults who can attest to the success of this parenting philosophy.

Ten year olds are a lot less rambunctious if you give them enough wine or beer to put them into a drunken stupor and then let them pass out in their playrooms.

Rita explained it far better than I could. For me, wine and beer are food products that compliment eating and make it a more enjoyable taste/sensory experience. We taught our kids that point of view and they have carried that perspective into their own adult lives.

Some of you have described how a spouse or parent or step-parent got mean or physical when drunk. You're describing abusers. I don't have beer or wine every day, sometimes not even once in a week or ten days, and I haven't been drunk since college days. I taught my children my own perspective (as parents tend to do) and that was part of how i did it.

" to emphasize to my kids that we are law-followers, and don't pick and choose laws abide by and those we flout and cheat"

To me, this is a very silly and unthoughtful thing to say in the context of this discussion so I will leave it alone and without comment.

But it's illegal, Rita, so do you still think it's ok to do it here? There are all kinds of things people do in other countries (and maybe they're great ideas, no doubt), but if it's illegal here, shouldn't that be a factor that would make a parent think twice about it?

^^ That is exactly the way I was raised as well and I see nothing wrong with it. I remember my British parents having an afternoon glass of sherry on Sundays and as a young child being fascinated with the stuff and asking for a taste. That was enough to keep me away from it for decades!! Same with the evening cocktail - to this day I still won't get near a martini or a gimlet!!

But the odd sip of beer (when taking a can out to daddy working in the garden on a hot summer day) or a watered down glass of wine at a family dinner were par for the course. And I think presenting them to curious children at a reasonable age as something less than absolutely prohibited lessens the appeal dramatically and makes the sampling far less desirable when peer pressure enters the picture.

ETA: in 45 of the 50 US states, it is NOT illegal for parents to serve liquor to their children in the privacy of their own home.

It could be that I am not as strict a rule follower as you are Mrs. S. It may surprise you to know that a sitting federal judge I know socially takes a more nuanced view of the prohibition against allowing children to have some wine at home than you do. Laws require interpretation. If the matter were as simple as you outline, then we would have algorithms at the bench and not judges.

Not sure you're right about that Gardengal, but I respect that you did some research, and perhaps you are right. In California, it's not legal, though certainly not something that's probably ever enforced. I respect all your opinions! And I defer to the European way; I am open-minded to others' experiences. I am a strict rule-follower :( , hahaha, it must seem like I'm not a fun person! But I am, just not a drinker.

Thanks for all the opinions and the window into other ways of looking at things!

Regarding the dumped kids, including the one that died it has been my experience that doctors apparently consider any version of not being attentive to a normal degree and fully conversant a possible medical emergency.

Mrs S, I'm sure you're a thinker. Wouldn't you rather consider yourself (and have others consider you) to be a thoughtful person with good common sense? Someone who can find your own way to good judgments in the world, instead of a strict rule follower who relies on someone or something else to tell them what to do. And who is lost in the absence of that to refer to? I'd think so and I think you'd want your kids to be similarly thoughtful.

If you want to be sure your kids will experiment with something or go somewhere that's contrary to your wishes, prohibit their doing so. If you want them to have a normal and healthy attitude about something but to be thoughtful and cautious, you need to teach them what that is and what it means.

I posed this question to the woman who cuts my hair. She just turned 50 and has more recently handled situations with her now college-age kids. Her instant reply was that mother reporting the kids would see action against her children. "Tell your mother not be be such a narc," is how she put it. She felt it didn't matter that the kids are not presently in the same 'group' because they are living in the same community.

Now I'm thinking about two of my DS's lifelong classmates K - 12. These two required drug rehab in HS. Both are now mid-forties and responsible citizens.

I am thoughtful, Elmer, and I am listening to you. I don't need to defend myself or my ability to know what's right for my children--my original question was whether to tell the parents of children I know, that they may have been smoking pot on Halloween.

And, as I thought might happen, there are a vocal group of folks (I'm not grouping you or anyone in particular in the vocal group--it's just an overall impression I'm having of the responses here) who are more of the opinion that it depends on the circumstances: whether the parents probably condone it, or already know about it (which might be the case here), whether the kids are probably driving home (not the case here, these are 15 year olds walking around), whether the kid is half-comatose and down on the ground (certainly not the case here), and also coloring the conversation is that pot-smoking is now legal, or so much almost-legal that it might as well be legal. And, some here are analogizing pot to alcohol, and that kids commonly experiment with this type of thing, and that many people in fact experienced youth socializing with those substances. Ok! I hear ya. And in fact, based on the facts and circumstances, I have decided not to say anything at this point, to the mom I know, based in part on many of the thoughtful replies here.

Thanks all!

I agree with letting teenagers have controlled, limited alcohol at home. I have seen far too many incidents of college freshmen become overwhelmed with their sudden freedoms, often with tragic consequences. Sometimes the kids who grew up with the most rules and restrictions are the ones who became the wildest, but with no practice in self-control when around peers who encourage intoxication.

My husband went to MIT (not a party school) with someone who died freshman year for this very reason. This was a smart, smart kid who made a bad choice and consumed something like 16 drinks one night and died. It's an extreme example but it does happen, and it's often the youngest ones who don't have the experience to pace themselves or understand the compound effects of alcohol. I think teens who have had regular, limited exposure growing up will have better self-control.

Two of my nephews have illnesses related to smoking pot as young teenagers. One of them did develop schizophrenia which is definitely connected to a young brain on pot. I would definitely want to tell someone if I saw anyone under age using that. It has ruined my nephews' lives. Both of these diagnosis were confirmed by Drs. Their grandmother had schizophrenia so that is probably where the susceptibility comes from.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php

I don't think you can say that their illnesses were absolutely caused by pot. It may have contributed, or it may have happened without pot use since there's a genetic tie. Have the doctors said it was definitely caused by pot use?

The only reason I being it up is that it would be a shame for them to blame themselves for smoking pot and causing the illness, when it may not have been their fault at all but just the genetic lottery.

^^Not such an extreme example, Chi. Happens all the time.

"Not sure you're right about that Gardengal, but I respect that you did some research, and perhaps you are right. In California, it's not legal, though certainly not something that's probably ever enforced."

Actually, that data is quite easily found online and readily confirmable. But you are correct........California IS one of the states that prohibit alcohol consumption in the home by minors with parental consent. And enforcement would be difficult.

>>>>> Elmer, my goodness, are you kidding you ply your children with alcohol when they are underage? I am speechless. In my state that is absolutely illegal, with fines and jail time spelled out in the penal code.

Oh, please. I read nothing into his post that he plied his children with alcohol. Puleese. When I was growing up my parents were wise enough to take the anticipation and allure out of alcohol and, on occasion, would allow my siblings and I to have a "pony glass" as we called it of about an ounce of wine. We really didn't like it!!! But it took the "wait until you're an adult" and the excitement of it away.

As teenagers, NONE of us abused alcohol and, in fact, thought "what's the big deal". Our peers rebelled and thought that drinking was terrific because they'd been denied it growing up and it was something to help declare that they were now ready to grow up. For my sibs and I, it was "Huh?". No big deal.

I consider my parents wise and astute. Good for them.

And .... it wasn't illegal. Pfffffft for those of you who misunderstand the law.

That's what the Drs said to the boys and their parents. It is most likely due to the family history of mental illness which makes them more susceptible to a reaction. They said they see it in teens with a family history too often. :( While the boys aren't to blame they still need to know in case they have children and need to warn them.

I live in the Bible belt and I was raised in what I would consider a very strict, conservative home.

My parents didn't allow alcohol on the property and certainly would NEVER allow me to taste some at home within safe grounds.

It was all strictly verboten. I wasn't even allowed to wear a sleeveless/spaghetti strap top because that apparently equates to "putting it all out there".

As is wont to happen in this type of environment, I rebelled severely and tried everything I could get my hands on. My brother went to the other extreme and retained this holier than thou viewpoint and still maintains it to this day.

He is extraordinarily proud of and even "brags" about the fact that he has "never even tried alcohol, tobacco, drugs, etc"

I'm sure he is legitimately proud of himself for having resisted the temptation and peer pressure to conform but his entire attitude is condescending and demeaning to the vast majority that don't happen to fall into his subset.

Great!! Good for you!! You didn't experiment, that is FANTASTIC news!!!!!

Oh wait, now you want to judge and look down on others who didn't follow your perfectly pious example.

Boo.

yeonasky, the article you linked cites ONE recent study, it was on mice and not on humans, and it says the jury is still out. I'm sorry about your nephews' mental health conditions but I have to say that doctor is very wrong and off-base to jump to such a conclusion based on what's for now an uncertain and unproven connection. It's also not a double blind situation so there would be no way to know if for your nephews the cannabis intake was related or not related. This condition is known to have a relatively important inheritance factor but it is still not fully understood (based on what I've just found about it). Would your nephews have developed this problem without the cannabis use? There's no way to know.

TG, you're my hero for making your own decisions.

From your description, I probably wouldn't like your brother.

We can all agree or disagree on what can/can't, will/won't. The bottom line is if you or your child is susceptible than every theory is meaningless.

When you look at statistics, one is too many if it's you or your own child.

My brother wanted to teach his kids to drink responsibly before they were 21 and not just let loose at 21 to go do what they're "not supposed to do before 21". Although I wouldn't offer my own kids to drink, I do understand his point.

Chi, by the time your child is 15 it is too late to affect his or her decisions about drugs, alcohol, sex.

I agree with that. I think kids make decisions in late middle school about what they will /won't do ... but the chance to do these things doesn't tend to come until later. That's why you have to talk to them BEFORE they make decisions ... however, that doesn't mean you should talk to them at 11 or 12 and then quit -- it has to be an ongoing series of discussions.

I know that I might've rolled my eyes and complained, but I did listen to what my mom said, and I mulled it over later and took it seriously. I think my girls were the same way.

You need to discuss with this hypothetical 15 year old child what the actual real life consequences of smoking pot can be (and no it is not just harmless- ask your pediatrician for the latest studies on how pot smoking affects children.)

No, it's not harmless by any means. And if you aren't concerned about the health issues, consider this: In my college daughter's nursing class, several kids had "drinking tickets" from on campus police -- drinking under age -- and because of those tickets they weren't allowed to complete a portion of their nursing internships -- specifically, they weren't allowed to do their rotations with a school nurse (I think another issue as well). On the same topic, a friend of mine had a foreign exchange student stay with her family -- because her older son (who didn't even live in the house any longer) had a "drinking ticket", they almost weren't chosen as a host family. They had to file notarized documents stating that the exchange student would never be in a car where the older son was a driver.

The moral: These things CAN follow young people into places they don't expect.

You and your four siblings would be a first for me because I don't believe I've ever known anyone who could make the statements you say apply to all of you

I don't believe my siblings were lying to me about never having used drugs or drinking alcohol underage; being two decades removed from our teen years, no one had any reason to hide anything.

I think it shows that when parents talk to their kids about drugs and alcohol effectively, the lessons stick.

If your child does not respect you when she is little, she will not respect you when she is big. There are plenty of people who once they are adults, look back and see the error of their ways, but it may be too late by then.

I read somewhere that if you listen -- really listen -- to your kids when they're two, they'll really listen to you when they're teens. I don't know if that's a blanket statement or not, but my kids wouldn't stop talking to me when they were teens -- I knew more than I wanted to know about who was doing what.

Chi, what is the difference between being intoxicated with alcohol and being intoxicated with pot?

One's legal ... for people over 21. The other is illegal. That's a pretty big line to cross; it means that the items in question have been purchased illegally, furtively and perhaps in a dangerous situation, and it shows a greater disregard for the law.

In Europe this is considered the way to bring up children who treat alcohol like a normal part of life and do not overindulge.

My husband was raised in Europe, and as a teen he absolutely was into the overindulging culture.

Regardless, most of us aren't European, so what matters is the culture in which we ourselves live.

Mrs S, I'm sure you're a thinker. Wouldn't you rather consider yourself (and have others consider you) to be a thoughtful person with good common sense? Someone who can find your own way to good judgments in the world, instead of a strict rule follower who relies on someone or something else to tell them what to do. And who is lost in the absence of that to refer to? I'd think so and I think you'd want your kids to be similarly thoughtful.

I happen to think the laws on drinking ARE well thought out; they're intended to protect teens and young adults from the dangers of drinking.

My brother wanted to teach his kids to drink responsibly before they were 21 and not just let loose at 21 to go do what they're "not supposed to do before 21". Although I wouldn't offer my own kids to drink, I do understand his point

I've heard many people espouse this "teach them to drink" philosophy; however, the reality is that you've been teaching your child to drink responsibly (or irresponsibly) ever since he or she realized that Coke and beer aren't interchangeable beverages -- maybe age 7, 8, 9? From a young age your children have seen you drink moderately (or not), have seen you hand your keys over to your spouse after a couple drinks with dinner (or not), have seen that you can have a good time without alcohol (or not). You've been teaching your kids these lessons a long time!

As for allowing them to drink in a "safe environment", research shows that philosophy backfires ... I grew up with an alcoholic father, I was very concerned about a genetic link and wanted to know how best to treat the subject with my children, so I read as much as I could -- and what I read over and over was that giving alcohol to your underaged children tends to lead to them drinking more and drinking more frequently.

"Regardless, most of us aren't European"

Unless your ancestry AND home culture are Asian, African, Middle Eastern or South American (all of which added together still represent a small minority of the US population), most of what you'd call "American culture" derives predominantly from European immigrants whose descendants, to this day, represent the majority of the population.

Mrs Pete, I'm sorry you had an alcoholic parent. I think you have some strong biases from that and other experiences and influences you may have had. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I find much in yours to disagree with as I'd guess you do with mine. Best wishes.

"that giving alcohol to your underaged children tends to lead to them drinking more and drinking more frequently."

I think it is very rash to make broad generalities like this. In some cases it may be true but by no means in all. I grew up in a family that introduced alcohol to the kids at an early age. Not frequently but if we asked, we received a taste. And at family dinners or special occasions we also received a small glass of wine or sparkling wine/champagne. I also have no recollection about the topic of alcohol (or drugs, but this was many years ago now) being discussed as illegal or dangerous but that was perhaps a sign of the times.....it just wasn't the same issue it is now. I do remember a few 'keggers' being mentioned when I was in high school but alcohol consumption (or any drugs, for that matter) was really not anything I encountered until in college. And yes, I admit to a beer or two whilst being underage :-))

FWIW, my sibs and I are all social drinkers only. Maybe a pre-dinner cocktail and a glass or two of wine with a meal or at a social event. I have never seen either of them under the influence nor can I remember the last time I imbibed to the point of feeling tipsy. So to make the broad assumption that allowing underage kids a taste of alcohol at home if they express curiosity or as part of a learning experience is setting a dangerous precedent is invalid, as it did not lead either myself or my sibs to drink more frequently or heavier. Every household is different and every parent will have a different way of approaching this topic based on what they know about their own children and what sort of situations or peer pressure they may be exposed to.

Have there been any studies done on this subject?

Unless your ancestry AND home culture are Asian, African, Middle Eastern or South American (all of which added together still represent a small minority of the US population), most of what you'd call "American culture" derives predominantly from European immigrants whose descendants, to this day, represent the majority of the population.

Actually, I do have a Central American parent, but I'd argue that our culture today is distinctly America regardless of our roots; thus, European culture is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think it is very rash to make broad generalities like this. In some cases it may be true but by no means in all.

Few things are true for everyone, and this is a multi-fauceted subject not based upon any one choice; but I urge you to do some research on the topic. I wasn't sharing my opinion; I was sharing what I learned from reading a variety of authors who'd researched the subject. Any one individual's experiences may buck the trend, so take a look at research based upon large numbers of people.

Have there been any studies done on this subject?

Many, and they're easy to find. If you're interested in the topic, I urge you to do some reading.

Mrs. Pete Thank You and yes I plan to do a search and read as soon as I am able to actually comprehend what I'm reading which won't be today.

"I'd argue that our culture today is distinctly America regardless of our roots; thus, European culture is irrelevant to this discussion. "

I wonder how familiar you are with the cultures of various European countries. This comment suggests you have little familiarity at all. Much (most?) of what you see here, you see there. And unless your Central American heritage is from isolated indigenous people, the cultures there were also highly influenced by the Spanish (European) colonization.

For crying out loud.

I'm not good at deciphering studies so I'm leaving that to others. My disability makes it hard for me to remember what I've just read so it's hard to connect things.

This article talks of drugs and alcohol worsening a pre-existing illness. Not sure if the boys were tested for the gene or not. I'll have to ask.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana/there-link-between-marijuana-use-psychiatric-disorders

From what i understand, the marijuana of today is much different from the old school pot. Old school pot vs alcohol, i would worry more about the alcohol. These new strains are supposedly stronger, i think.

But, no, i wouldn't be telling the parents unless they were close friends. If they were driving, that might be a different story.