We looked at that rose yesterday and think the tree is probably "only" 50-60 feet high,and the rose is going up 40 feet or a bit more. There's still room at the top for the rose to climb, and we believe that it will reach the top, and cascade down once it has no more place to grow. Ann, I think you are right about the microclimate. The cemetery was originally a sand hill, created from the Sacramento river. Its high ground, in a city second only to New Orleans in risk of flooding, is why the cemetery was established there in 1850. Up at the top of the hill, where the banksiae is planted, is the sandiest soil of all. The curator has always suspected that the water table is pretty high. When we have removed roses, we are sometimes astonished at how big and deep the roses grow. I told some of the sheriff's crew to remove an Alberic Barbier, and went to lunch. When I checked on them, they were standing chest-high in the hole, still digging! It is a cemetery, for heaven's sake - we don't want to dig TOO deep! - so I had them stop, even though there were still substantial roots to be seen. Many of our roses grow bigger in the cemetery than elsewhere. We don't prune hard, we rarely feed, and we do usually provide regular, weekly water. But it must be something about the microclimate/microsoil. A funny thing about that banksiae - it's only been there a dozen years, and I'm told that a volunteer cut it off a few years after it was planted. All of that growth is from the last eight or nine years. Anita

Mrs. Jennings, Looking back on the whole thing, I can't help but shake my head and think to myself, "Josh, you should've taken better pictures so we could actually SEE the thing!" Lol. I see what you mean by the 'quilted' aspect of the foliage. I'll see if I can't get a better couple of pictures of this beauty. I did not take any cuttings from the bush since I discovered it right as summer was heating up. I plan on air layering the plant in several places once the October weather rolls around and the plant is not water-stressed. Perhaps I will 'rustle' the red one as well. The red rose seems so incredibly familiar but I just cannot put my finger on how I feel like I know what it is... I will stop by and see the plant today to see if it has re bloomed. Josh

The plant fotographied at Etzelstorfer nursey named Pinus nigra "Birte" are very doubtfull. The true "Birte" are a small globose plant. Clement

As you all know, a lot of the upper midwest is f-l-a-t. (My DM, a native of Rhode Island, claimed that she used to drive up and over RR crossings, just for the variety.) I grew up in Park Ridge, Illinois. The "Park" part is common in many place names. The "Ridge" celebrates the infinitesimal bit of altitude above sea level that exists in the center of town. This name replaced the much less 'cultured' name of Bricktown. (An abundance of clay soil led to the founding of brick works.) Our little town and the one next to it had its own telephone company for ages. I remember an early phone directory that extolled the virtues of Park Ridge, inviting Chicagoalns to move there, "Out of the Smoke Zone -- Into the Ozone". (Well, what did they know?)