at the VERY least - change the size that dishwasher is on. Right now, the natural prep area is between the sink and the stove. Right smack dab in front of the dishwasher. Moving that DW will allow hubs to stand in front of the left bowl of the sink, rinse (if he's so inclined) and load the DW without totally being in your way.

I have a long island as well and think you should add the sink- it can do no harm. Just be sure the sink is a regular size- not a small prep sink- at least 24" would be my preference- I would get 30 for myself. And remember you can always have a nice cutting board made to fit over the sink, so it does double duty- to say nothing of a colander for the veggies.

Yes, I would. It seems redundant to go from one side of the kitchen (fridge) to other side (sink) and then back to middle to prep. Streamline. :)

Jannicone - I think switching the side the dishwasher is one makes a lot of sense. Thanks for pointing that out!

Rita - I hadn't thought about having a cutting board made to go over. That's a great idea!

Gennifer B. - that's that thought that's keeping me up at night, lol. Thanks!

The only problem with moving the DW is that it becomes the first thing a person sees as they come in the front door.

here's an answer without another sink - get a LARGER sink where you have it, still keep DW to the left and then go with 2 faucets. Something like a Kohler Stages or whatever those 36'-48" sinks are, or a large triple bay sink, or three separate smaller ones, etc - but then you can be on the right, he's on the left, you have your own sink, a disposal in the middle and your own faucet. You certainly have enough window there to support a large statement sink.

AND you get to keep the island for eating and "clean".

One last thing about the DW being viewable from the foyer. I think this is one of those things where 2D plan looking is belying what actually happens in 3D. There will be so many other things to attract your eye when someone steps into the house, that, while "line of sight at 30" " might have you go to the DW, I am guessing that the windows will be the thing that draws you in.

Ahhh, the Stages 45 sink! ^^^Exactly what I was thinking!

The prep sink is a matter of preference; I like an uninterrupted island...

Go with a large sink.

The back wall in your kitchen is perfect for a dark/accent/dramatic color or tile.

jannicone, I don't think the DW would be a problem to the left of the sink when closed, but it might draw attention when open.

Will there be seating at your island? If so, do you intend to have seating on one side or around the L? This may/may not influence your decision...

Just my opinion, but I'd prefer the functionality of a prep sink in the island (and like Rita said, a large one, not a small one) closer to the fridge and where you intend to do your prep. But if your aesthetic preference is an unbroken island, this might be an unwelcome opinion.

As you work in your kitchen now, do you find yourself moving your prep close to the sink? Might help solve your answer. A wonderful GW'er here did our layout, adding a prep sink in the island where I'll do all my prep, almost across from our fridge location, and after very little thought, I realized what a welcome it will be.

AnnKH - got it. At any given time, the DW being open in my house is fairly infrequent, and probably rarer when we're entertaining or expecting company to arrive. No about is perfect, but I'd much rather see it there than in the middle of all the cooking and prepping action.

I have a 10 ft x 5 ft island and have the Kohler 33" stages sink. It is our prep sink and the cutting board is in place and used all the time. I think you would benefit from the prep sink vs getting a larger single sink because the point of the island prep sink is to have it accessible to the fridge - where most of your prep food items reside. There are posters here that have had cabinetry made for under the shallow part of the sink so the sink cabinet can be smaller. The sink itself is about 19.5" and the shallow part just under 13". I don't have a picture handy but if you google my name+kitchens+gardenweb, some older threads with pictures will show up.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to share advice and opinions! This is really an incredible community and I appreciate you all sharing your time.

I wasn't aware of the Kohler Stages sinks but I think it may be the answer! I see myself doing most of my prep on the corner of the island closest to the sink so distance probably will be less of an issue that I was worrying about. There is seating along the outside side of the island and there will be a trash pullout on the inside side of the island.

Our initial bid came in over budget (isn't that always the case?) so I've had to trim some things (including the 48" range I was dreaming about) but I think I'll be able to swing EITHER a larger main sink like the Kohler stages or the prep sink on the island.

After reading everyone's advice and thinking it over I've decided to do a larger main sink and leave the island just countertop. I think moving the dishwasher to the left makes the most sense, use-wise. I do worry about it being visible from the front of the house but I may see look at how much it would cost to get it paneled.

Thank you again! I'm off to research the Stages sinks :)

Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines threads:

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Kitchen work zones, what are they?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

Agree with buehl - the size of your sink is not the issue, it is the placement relative to the fridge. For functionality, a prep sink on the island increases your kitchen function in spades.

I had a similar set up in my old kitchen and loved having a prep sink. I wouldn't get a normal sized sink, but I would make sure the prep sink is big enough to fit a colander and a big bowl. I bet you will end up chopping veggies, etc. at the island and it is great to grab them from the fridge, rinse and chop. I would plan on putting knives near the prep sink. Best of luck!

Hmm...okay, now I'm back to considering a island prep sink. Thank you, buehl, for all that info. I've read through it all and see what you're saying about zones. If I did add an island sink, where would you place it? I was thinking at the end of the island closest to the fridge but don't know how to maximize useable counter space.

Also, anyone want to weigh in on where to put my microwave? I'd like it somewhere in the uppers along the wall with the range in it (but not over the range since we'll have a hood).

Thank you!

We ended up getting a standard prep sink (they are small) in the island and I could have done without it. We hardly ever use it even though its in front of the fridge. I take stuff to my big sink which is a double sink. I hate how my huge island is broken up by a sink. If you make a lid or cover for it you still have the huge faucet sticking out.

Im really writing to tell you that you should get a micro drawer as a microwave and put it in the island. Its very practical to warm up food and lift it up onto the island rather than down. All of my kids can easily warm up food and the coolness factor is out of this world. Guests love it!

We have a prep sink in our peninsula and I use it ALL the time! It's used much more than the cleanup sink.

People usually don't use their prep sink if

• the sink is too small (The bare minimum would be 12" interior width, with 18" or more much better.)
  or

• the sink is not placed so it follows the natural Kitchen workflow
  or

• the sink is on an aisle that's too narrow and/or too congested

Here's a possibility:

• Nice separation of work zones -- allows more than one person to be working in the Kitchen at the same time (helping prep, cooking, cleaning up, unloading the DW, getting a snack, etc.)

• Two excellent Prep Zones

• The Cleanup Zone and Dish Storage are separated from the Prep and Cooking Zones and located so they are easily accessed from the table space and the Great Room for setting the table or cleaning up without getting in the way of others prepping and/or cooking a meal.

• You have plenty of cabinet space plus a large pantry, so I voided out the corner to allow you to have wider drawer bases on both sides of the corner.
  -- Note the 3" of filler on each side of the voided corner. This filler ensures the drawers/doors on each side of the corner clear the drawers/doors/knobs/pulls on the other side.

• I recommend counter-height windows

• The sink wall is 3" deeper than standard to give you deeper workspace, room behind the sink for the faucet, etc., and minimize splashing the window
  -- 28.5"D counters
  -- 27"D base cabinets (if you cannot get 27"D base cabinets, then pull them 3" out from the wall)
  -- 15"D upper cabinets

• For dish storage, there's a 33" wide dish hutch.
  -- The upper part of the hutch is from counter to ceiling and is 15" deep so even 12" long platters will fit.
  -- The base cabinet is 27"D.

• To balance out the dish hutch, I put upper cabinets on the other side of the window. The corner cabinet is an "easy reach" cabinet -- a corner cabinet with a pie cut shape for easy access of the contents

• I'm suggesting a Snack/Tea/Coffee Center and maybe a Message/Command Center on the upper right wall.
  -- Since it's next to the Mudroom, you could put the Message/Command Center right next to the entry
  -- Then, a Snack/Tea/Coffee Center with a MW drawer and refrigerator drawers
  -- The counters and base cabinets are also 3" deeper along this wall.

• The prep sink is in a 24-inch wide sink base. It will fit a 21" wide sink, at least.

• The island seats 5.
  -- The seats are on two sides, much more conducive to conversation/visiting than sitting like ducks all in a row on one side.
  -- Three seats have a 15-inch overhang -- the minimum recommended for counter-height seating
  -- The two on the short side have an 18-inch overhang for those family members and/or guests who are tall or have long legs.

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Zone Map:

Buehl, thank you so much for taking the time to draw this up! I'm really blown away--it's so helpful. Thank you--really.

I'm sold on the idea of a hutch to the far way. I think I will be great to have something more decorative in that corner since it's in the line-of-sight from the foyer. I hadn't heard of doing counter-height windows but I think it would be lovely. I also like the idea of doing a deeper counter all along that wall.

I understand why you suggested the drink/MW center in the dining nook but we actually don't drink coffee or tea. But we do have A LOT of books (including way too many cookbooks) and so I'm excited by the idea of doing a recessed bookshelf in that nook, similar to this. I like the idea of the shelves being flush so people can still go around the table that way.

I do want to have a message center/command center and am planning on adding it along the wall in the mudroom opposite the bench.

Does anyone have a MW drawer? How do you like it? We have two kids, 10 and 7, and it would be nice to have it accessible to them but I don't love the idea of stooping down every time I use it. The drawers also seem quite a bit more expensive than one in an upper cabinet.

Speaking of small appliances, we have a few ;) We use our blender and toaster everyday and also have a rice cooker and mixer and instant pot. Most of them are going to live in the pantry but I would love to have a place for at least the toaster and blender to sit out hidden on the counter. I've been trying to find an example of a built-in hutch with glass panels for dishes but wood panels just above the counter to hide appliances. I can't tell if it would look goofy or not. Thoughts?

Lastly, since there's just 4 in our family I'm leaning towards not wrapping the seating around the side of the island. While I think it would be great for big groups, we don't entertain that often and I like the look of paneling on the end of the island, especially since it's visible from the foyer and since it's in the middle of the main traffic pattern I would like to keep it clean.

If we don't have seating around the end of the island, would it be better to put the prep sink in the middle of the island? I'm asking mostly for looks but function-wise is that okay?

Thanks to anyone who read all that :)

You don't need to lean down to use the micro drawer. You can stand and press the buttons. Its pricey but worth the money. Its a very clean look in the kitchen. I also did not put chairs at my island because its in the sightline through the front door. P!us from what you said earlier about the size of the island it seems as though you won't be able to pass food over because its so large you can't reach across.

Oh yes and I saw micro drawers with buttons on the top edge so you don't even have to step back to see them. Google them when you're choosing.

I really want a microwave drawer myself. On my island. with a prep sink.... Can you sens that buehl has been messing with my mind too? :)

I posted this same question and was told we needed a prep sink as my island is 10' and would be too far of a walk from main sink to fridge. But I really wanted a solid slab of marble for my island and skipped the prep sink. No regrets! The walk is no big deal and I absolutely love my clean island- we use the space for putting out all of the food for parties and a sink would have just been annoying and taken up a spot for someone to sit.

I passed on the prep sink on the island 2 times, not just once. I have an L kitchen with a 8 ft island. I prep on the island or next to the sink, depending on my mood. I use the sink, and turn around and use the island, if I am prepping on the island. I always do the baking prep on the island even though there is plenty of counter space elsewhere. In my particular kitchen, I waned to keep the open flat space more than the second sink.

Why do you not have more windows on the exterior wall of the great room? IMHO, you can't have too much natural light in a house. That will be a very dark room since the only windows you have, you have the porch in front of it. There will be very little light coming into that room. My guess is that you will not be using the living room very much.

Thank you Buehl as always.

My take on her layout:

I am not a fan of 2 different trash cans in the kitchen. They take up precious storage space. I also do NOT generate enough trash to fill 1 kitchen trash can per week. We compost all food waste, and the city picks it up. The trash has to go out nearly immediately, if there is any meat wrapping in the trash. (Smells terrible even in one day) So multiple bins mean more trips to the outside with barely anything in the trash bag.

I like to put the compost bins on the counter while I am working. If I use the compost bin while it is in the drawer, it makes too much mess: dirty hands opening the drawer, then I have to open the compost bin top. (if I don't have a lid, the compost bin smells.)

I use my kitchen command center everyday. I have a large flat screen for the computer. I prefer the screen over the laptop. Our entire life is on the google calendar, which means nearly everything I need to do are done on the computer. I never used wall calendar. I prefer to do family things around my kids. I don't want to go to the office elsewhere. When the kids were little, they used the computer on it. I did not want them using one somewhere that I could not see.

Make the desk area big enough so that you are comfortable using it. (mine is about 5 and few inches) I have a tiny window, so I can see trees. I have enough storage around that my essential things are right there: file folder, printer, office supplies, phone (egads, I still have one)

Chris, your kitchen is lovely! And the layout looks similar to mine so seeing it is very helpful so thank you. Do you mind me asking where your fridge is? It's good to hear that you don't regret skipping the island sink.

jenningsf thanks! The fridge is against the wall parallel to the sink below the island. Here is another angle so you can see it

"I use my kitchen command center everyday. I have a large flat screen for the computer."

The "Message/Command Center" in the above layout is for things like keys, mail, purse, school papers, charging station (if not done next to your bed at night), etc. It's not an entertainment center for the Kitchen. It's for:

• Things that people bring into the house from the garage entry and don't usually need to go any further into the house -- including papers that need to be signed and returned to school.

-and-

• Things that need to go out with you when you leave the house -- including signed school papers that you took care of after your kids went to bed for the night or after they packed their backpacks for the next day.

However, if that's going to be a library and not counters, then nothing Kitchen-y would go there. Jenningsf did say she has one planned for the Mudroom already, so it's not needed where I put it.

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2 Trash pullouts...normally I wouldn't want two either, but since Jenningsf has such a lot of cabinet and other storage space, I thought it might be nice to have one (the one on the island) where someone from outside the Kitchen could use it w/o getting in the way of someone working in the Kitchen.

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Island sink...if you don't want one, don't put one in. However, it will be a much less functional layout b/c not only of the refrigerator location but also the overall size of the Kitchen. For some people, looks are more important than function; if that's you, then don't put in the sink. It is your Kitchen after all!

In addition, you state, "since it's visible from the foyer and since it's in the middle of the main traffic pattern I would like to keep it clean." That sounds like you won't be doing any prepping on the island anyway b/c to do so would mean getting the island "dirty" and not allow you to keep it clean all the time. If that's the case (no prepping), then there's no need for a sink.

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Island seating...The reason I put seats on two sides is that if you have more than two or three people sitting on a side, it becomes more like diner seating where strangers sit at the counter and don't have to look anyone else while eating. It's not conducive to conversation or family bonding.

If you decide to go with seating on just the long side, then be aware that your island will probably need to be even longer.

• You need a minimum of 24" of linear space per seat (some are thinking that should be upped to 30" per seat, but let's assume 24" for now)
• You need to account for the paneling and/or cabinets
• Since the ends will not be open, you will need extra space for the end seats to allow people to be able to maneuver in & out of the seats with an obstacle on one side.

So, for 4 seats:

• Seats...4 x 24" = 96"
• Cabinets/panels like in your inspiration, assume 6" each...2 x 6" = 12"
• Extra maneuvering space, at least 6" on each end...2 x 6" = 12"
• 96" + 12" + 12" = 120" or 10'

For 3 seats, subtract 24" = 96" or 8'

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Toaster & blender...if you are going to be using the perimeter for most of your prepping (so you keep the island clean), then I would not put the toaster, at least, in the corner. Someone making a snack would be in the way if you're trying to work in the Kitchen. I'd put the toaster somewhere out of the way...that was one of the reasons I put the Snack Center off to the side (it wasn't just a Tea/Coffee Center, it was primarily a Snack Center).

Instead, consider putting in cabinets w/counters on one end of the pantry and putting the toaster there. It can be used in the pantry without getting in your way.

The blender is probably fine in the corner -- unless it's used for snacks. If so, then I'd put that in the pantry on the counter as well.

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Freezer in pantry...be sure your pantry is very, very well ventilated. Freezers and refrigerators put out a lot of heat and heat is the last thing you need in a pantry with foodstuffs! For best results for storing food, pantries should be cool, dry, and dark. In fact, if there's a way to pump A/C into it but not heat, I'd do it. If all else fails, plan to leave the Pantry door open all the time to ensure the heat does not build up in the Pantry.

Kaismom, thank you for your input. I do really love the idea of the whole island being counter top so it's good to hear that it works for you.

Yes, I thought about having some small windows up high on the other wall in the great room (especially since it faces north) but we're going to put a TV on the wall there and the ceilings are only 9' high so it doesn't seem like there is room. I also don't love the idea of having glare from a window right above while watching TV during the day (which to be honest is mostly what the room will be used for). We have a lot of art and I'm planning on doing a gallery wall surrounding the tv and just having a mix of lighting in there. I live in UT and it's usually quite sunny here so I'm hoping that the indirect light from the under the patio will be sufficient.

Your command center sounds awesome. I had hoped we could do a U-shaped kitchen and with a desk one side but we couldn't swing it. I work on my laptop quite a bit and am planning on putting a computer in the great room for the kids and having a mail/paper sorting station in the mudroom.

Buehl, thank you for the additional input. The information about seating at the island is very helpful. When I said I wanted to the island to be clean I mostly meant I wanted the look of a clean edge (aka a panel) on the end of the island that faces the foyer so it's less distracting. But I see your point about seating around the side being more conducive to group dynamics. So...another looks vs. usability dilemma to wrestle with, lol. I'm off to look at non-end-capped islands!

Thank you for the info about ventilation for the second fridge in the pantry. I'll pay attention to that and the type of door we use.