My parents moved to an over 55 community and loved it. In one of our conversations at the end of her life, she shared that it was one of the best decisions they had made. She had a group of wonderful friends; they were a very active group. She swam every day, went to lectures, and enjoyed events in the community. After her death, those friends were there to celebrate her life and comfort her "kids". She was a very social, outgoing personality and really enjoyed the lifestyle. I'm not sure it would be the right choice for me but it was definitely a perfect fit for her. Good luck with your move. I hope you find warm and interesting friendships.

My mom moved with her new husband, both in their 70's, to a 55+ community. It was basically a neighborhood of about six or seven smaller, cottage type homes plus a small apartment building in a quiet area. Well, as they got into their 80's, the property owner became lax and began renting and selling to younger and younger folk, some with children. Don't get me wrong, they liked kids, but this is not what they had hoped for. Sometimes children playing and screaming can make 80 and 90yrolds nervous.

My daughter's college was a 4 hour drive from us. Only a couple of times did my husband do a round trip in a day to pick her up or drop her off. We always made a weekend of it. I don't think you'll see your family as much without you being the ones making most of the effort, but I could be wrong. Is there something geographically desirable about this community? I don't know anything about the social aspects of these communities. My husband's cousin and his wife as well as my cousin and his wife sold their main homes because they no longer needed the room or wanted the maintenance. They both have second homes at the Jersey shore and plan to do more travelling.

I like your idea of renting your home. It's something I plan to do as well.

Can you rent in this community? That would be the best solution.

I know you have been talking about this for a while but now that it is actually here, you are getting nervous.

But, only you can answer the why. Sad about leaving your family? Sad about leaving all her favorite parks, walks, restaurants, doctors etc?

I agree with Chickadee. Four hours becomes a weekend visit, so be prepared for that.

We have many friends that have sold their long time homes and have moved to over 55 communities. Not one of them is sorry they have done so. The only advise I can give is to not be shy and be sure you take advantage of the offered activities. Every one was the new 'kid' at one time, find the activities (and the people) you enjoy. Good luck!

It sounds great! But I'd try to find one closer if possible. You will have more time with grandkids if it doesn't require an overnighter. But if that's as close as you can find something good, it's worth trying out.

I think your title says a lot about your hesitation. Analysis paralysis can stall one about any big decision. We also have several friends who have made major moves from established neighborhoods and old friends to smaller homes and smaller neighborhoods with older populations. None have regretted their decisions. Like maddielee says, be sure to be willing to make new friends in your new neighborhood and get involved in activities available.

Think of it this way too. If you love it and decide to sell your old home but don’t like being 4 hours away from most of your family, you could always lease or buy a small apartment or condo in your old city so you can go back for frequent visits. If you can afford 2 homes for a few years, that could be an option.

It's not easy for some to make changes and 40 years is a long time but, listen, you have nothing to lose. You still have your home and change can be scary. Just taking a trip can cause apprehension. It's part of the process. You're going to be fine. It's like being ambivalent about doing anything. Sort of like a point where you just think "why am I doing this"? You already know why so, baby steps, make the next move and then the next etc. One day you'll be so thrilled you did it. Good luck.

We sold our home of 23 years and moved to a townhome (or villa as some call it). It's not an age restricted community but I don't think there's anyone under 50. We moved in our late 50's. We love it though we are still in the same major metro area so still get together with friends, family, etc.

We also have some friends who moved from Minnesota to Florida to a new community in Naples in their mid-50s. It also is not age restricted but they really like it as well. Their community is more like a resort so more facilities and planned activities than where we moved. We just moved into a fun, social neighborhood of people a lot like us.

I think you hesitate because of the unknown. And the longer you've been settled and comfortable the less adventurous you may feel about making a move. Based on my experience I would highly recommend you go for it!

Four hours seems like a fairly long distance from the children and grandchildren. I don't know how involved you are in their lives, but that would make me think about it. But maybe renting vs. selling your home gives you the chance to come back if it doesn't work out or anyone in your family has a change in health.

I am at the point where if we are going to move for my work, this is the time before I get closer to retirement, so I do think about this--a lot.

Something is not sitting right with you about this. With as much hesitation as you have, it doesn't seem like it's the right place or the right time.

This is a big move and I completely understand your hesitation. Four hours could be a bit far and probably does mean fewer but longer weekend visits rather than more frequent short visits.

My mom lived about six hours from us and she wouldn't move closer to me or my brother because she had a great social life and a long-term gentleman friend. After he died, she moved near me and I loved having her close to go out to dinner, attend daughter's concerts, shop, etc. It was great but then her Alzheimer's disease progressed to the point where most of that was not feasible. It was still great having her close in order to take care of her. I've always admired her courage to move at 80yo and leave her home and friends. But she loved her independent living apartment and was very social and even met a lovely new gentleman.

I guess all of that is to say that if you can find away to stay close to family but improve your social connections, that might be ideal. Keeping your home is a really safe way to try the new community and see how it goes.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Go, but not with the idea it will be forever. Think of it as a temporary (maybe even 20 or so years), but still temporary. The reason I say that is that at some point especially if you reach the point where you can no longer drive, illnesses intervene or one of you passes, it might be time to move closer to your children (for their sake). It's tough in children with elderly parents to travel 4 hours each way every weekend or in case of emergency. I think all of us would be well served to plan ahead and make it easier in our children to help us when the time comes that we need more help. I have had to deal with an elderly Mom about an hour away, while I am still working and it is difficult. Thank goodness she has the good sense and is rational enough to move much closer to us when we move. It is going to make like more pleasant for both of us when I can just drop by for a cup of coffee and not spend every minute I am there helping do things she cannot -- I'll continue to do that, but having her so close means we can just visit too and I can bring her over to our house for family dinners a couple of times a week.

Joanie - I know I've mentioned before that we were moving into an over 55 community. Well tomorrow is the big day.

We've completely gutted the home we bought in April and installed everything we've ever wanted. DH kept saying that we have spent the last 34 years making this place into exactly what we wanted and now that we're leaving our beautiful home with a big private yard and pool he wanted to make this next one our 'little gem.'

Our contractor finished a month ago and since we still have 2 weeks until settlement with the young couple buying this place we've been slowly moving in. Just about everything is in place - the kitchen, our clothes, new landscaping etc. We bought new furniture for our bedroom and family room and that arrived 2 weeks ago. Tomorrow it's the living room, dining room and the 2 sets of bedroom furniture that will go into the guest rooms.

I do sense that you're reluctant to make this move. And what a smart idea to rent your current home in case your decide to return.

Our decision to move to the over 55 was so easy - it's only 9 miles from where we've lived for 34 years so we don't even have to change grocery stores or doctors.

I already have 4 friends who live there and another one is moving in next week. The community is a nice size. 250 individual homes and another 28 income restricted townhomes. There is a nice clubhouse, pool, tennis, bocce and an active group of seniors who plan outings - golf, movies, Broadway shows, casino runs.

But the most important aspect of this move is that all three kids will still only be about 30 minutes away. I know you're a good bit younger than I am so perhaps this won't be a factor - but I don't think we see our kids often enough as it is. They all lead busy lives and work long hours. None of them have children yet but I know once that happens they'll be even busier. I did not want to move any further away than we are now. And moving to a warmer climate is not an attraction for us.

When DH and I married our families were a long 6 to 7 hours away. We only saw them a couple of times a year. And once we had our children it was really difficult to travel that distance for a long weekend. So we spent our vacation time visiting our families and seldom went away on our own.

None of that may pertain to your situation but I though I'd mention it just in case that's what's holding you back. Have your kids settled into what might be their 'permanent' homes? Although in today's job market there are few jobs where you remain in the same location for years. My son teases me that as soon as he and his wife have their first child his company will transfer him to Vancouver.

I have on friend who is thinking about moving to The Villages in Florida. So she and her DH are renting there for 6 weeks this winter to get a feel for the place. They will probably keep their place in our over 55 community and just spend winters there.

Do you think renting in this community would help you with your decision.

Maire

How lucky you are to be able to try this while still keeping your current home, should you decide it wasn't the right move for you. If nothing else comes of it, just think! All of your cupboards and closets will be cleaned out and you'll move home to empty drawers, closets, garage, etc.

Good luck. I hope it's all you are looking for in a life change.

What kind of drive is that 4 hour drive? We have friends who are moving to a 55plus community that is 4 hours away but that 4 hours takes you through mountain passes and it's already started to snow through there. Starting beginning of December until next April road conditions can change and become treacherous at the drop of a degree.

You don't drive 4 hours for a lunch or dinner.

Everyone's tolerance re driving distance may vary, but I am in a similar situation and while we started out saying we wanted to be within a 30 minute drive, I am agonizing when I see something that is maybe 40-45. We currently have a drive which is just over an hour or so, but it;s not a pleasant drive. We have one grandchild so far and that has really put in the forefront that we'd like to be closer when we move (which we will be doing within the next year ). As I phrase it, I am not a "happy driver"--- I function fine but it's not my pleasure by any stretch to drive on busy highways. A pleasant less traveled road is way more tolerable for me.

So just saying the the 4 hours to me would not be ideal. One daughter did go to school about 4 or 5 hours away and we never did it in one day.

Everything else though, with the over 55 sounds great to me.

I moved into a 55+ community for a time and found it to be nice, but I did not like living with people who were all seniors, no matter how active and engaged they were. I think it is healthier to be among people of all ages. One of the sadder realizations was that you don't get trick-or-treaters!

Four hours away from family would be a show-stopper for me. If you can't easily get there and back home in one day means every trip to see family is an over-nighter. Two hours away from family - that's about as far as I would go, and even that's a stretch.

Joanie, how about renting for a few weeks or a month in the new community? Take it for a test drive. The decision will become more clear.

One thing I will throw in. How you feel about 4 hours now might be very different than how you feel about it 10 years from now, etc.

That is a reason to take a 4hr drive off the table.

OTOH, depending on your age, you may want to move to a 55 community now and move back closer to kids when you are older and less self sufficient.

I don't have children but thinking back to my parents and the nieces and nephews/grandkids. They weren't primary sitters where they watched them every week, but they did when there was early dismissal, sick days, etc. And those times really were meaningful to my nieces and nephews. That can't really happen when you are 4 hours away. OTOH maire_cate brings up a good point if they are likely settled in their surroundings or likelihood they will also move at some time in the future.

As far as financial security, we don't plan to move, but as I mentioned, we are open to all possibilities, including overseas. We have discussed this with MIL and she would have to join us if we moved. We can't leave her here, and there is no one else unless she moves closer to her sisters in the Chicago area.

Joanie hasn't weighed in yet to our responses, but this is just my opinion. Joanie and her DH want to start living now. The lifestyle that they crave will not happen if they stay in place.

From what she has shared, I don't think she has an active role in babysitting the grandchild on a regular basis.

Yes, many people do move back or as my sister did "half back" when she moved from Florida up to North Carolina. Nothing has to be permanent.

There are no guarantees anyway. We have friends who moved across the country to be near the kids and grandkids only to find a year in that the family was transferred many states away! The husband went into a state of depression as he really missed his home and garden. The problem was, they sold their home and could no longer afford to move back into this area.

Is there really no place nearer to your current home? No gyms to join, no reading groups at the library or church, no clubs or golf courses? Four hours is really eight hours unless you stay. Will you stay in the kids' homes or a hotel?

We didn't move, the kids did. And believe me, four hours is long enough to come up with excuses not to go, or for them to come home. The kids have work, school, lessons, birthday parties in their lives to work around. Skype is great, but it sure is NOT hands-on grandparenting. We do our darndest to make it to recitals, plays, birthdays, etc., but weather, scheduling, and a zillion other details make it harder to schedule visits for our family.

I personally would never move away from the kids, if mine were living near each other. I am grateful that they invest a great deal of effort in seeing us and each other. The kids who do live near each other spend a lot of time together, doing ordinary things. One son calls it "uncle-ing" and he's really good at it. I wish hub and I could be there more often to enjoy it.

I do see the value in a robust social life, but I'd think long and hard about trading family for it. Analysis paralysis.

Thank you all so much for your input.

A few more details i should have added in the first place...

Our oldest is the one with the child. I don’t see them moving as they both have secure jobs they like. They live 20 min away but we are lucky to see our granddaughter once or twice a month for an hour or two. Not what i had envisioned but DIL just wants to be with her family who live 5 minutes from them ....i feel we are just an obligation to her. Yes, it would be much more difficult to move if we saw her every week, babysat, etc.

Youngest also lives here with his GF. They both work from home and plan to move in the next few years when they are ready to buy a house as this area is just too costly for them. We see them once or twice a month and sometimes he will come here to work for the day and stay for dinner. DD has lived 400 miles away for 8 years so we are used to seeing her just a few times a year.

The worst part of the drive is this area....congested I-95.....especially on weekends. There’s an alternate route we haven't tried yet but im sure would take at least an hour longer.

We’ve looked in this area and either we dont like the locations of the conmunities we can afford or it would mean a condo instead of a house. One community was 70 miles away but it took us two hours to get there in weekend traffic so i dont think we’d see the kids any more frequently if we moved 70 miles away as opposed to 250 miles.

Geographically the area is similar to here and i think that was throwing me too. Guess i always thought our retirement would be to a different kind of place such as the beach, desert, etc.

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

ETA.....Maire, I noticed you havent posted much lately but just thought you were having too much fun in your new community..lol! Good luck with the move today!

Our son and his family lived about a 4 hour drive from us, in a college town with a thriving retirement community. Their jobs took them away from that area. Now they live a 5 minute drive from us. Predicting the future can be difficult.

eld, living in the land of the "half-backs" here, LOL.

Yes, it makes a big difference if one is not regularly seeing children/grandchildren. In your case, the move may be for the better.

"Geographically the area is similar to here and i think that was throwing me too. Guess i always thought our retirement would be to a different kind of place such as the beach, desert, etc."

I think this sentence is "throwing" me as well. From all your previous posts, I thought you were looking at North?South Carolina or Florida.

Yes, the place we are considering is NC but not on the coast. My original idea was to be near the beach but DH was never keen. He grew up in another country with monsoons and typhoons and their house always flooded. Irma, Harvey, and Maria reaffirmed his fears of us being in our late 70’s or 80’s, losing everything and having to start over at an advanced age. He's way more of a Henny Penny than I am, but DS, with degrees in Environmental Science and Geography, says hurricanes will become stronger and more frequent. During Irma my brother, who lives on the gulf coast of Fl, spent nine days in a hotel in Ocala. He said if he had lost everything he was moving to Arizona or NM. Fortunately, his house was ok.

So, about the only box this doesnt check is close to a beach but the “bonus” is being four hours from here as opposed to 8 hours or a plane ride, making it easier for visits for all of us.

Joanie- how nice of you to notice that I haven't posted lately. We are enjoying our new place and it's been a good move for DH. Our previous home was on 3/4 of an acre with mature landscaping which gave us the peace and privacy he desired after a busy, hectic day in his office or hospital.

In the 34 years we lived there almost every single couple we socialized with had moved away. Most were corporate transfers or retirement to a warmer climate. I knew we needed a place where he would be forced to interact with others and where I would also have friends in the event I were alone.

Unfortunately the reason I haven't been here much is because DH's sister was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer and for the last 3 months we've been driving back and forth to Pittsburgh every other week or so. to spend time with her. Her funeral was today and I'm writing this from my hotel room. It's been doubly difficult for DH because as a medical oncologist he knew all to well what the outcome would be and there was nothing he could do to change it. She waited so long before telling anyone that by the time she made an appt with a physician it had spread throughout her body

I've been thinking about this for a while and seeking some overall perspective.

Over the years my SIL had become somewhat estranged from her family and because of that her children slowly stopped contacting each other too. They seemed to re-connect this weekend and I hope they manage to continue to communicate. How sad to think that her family lost all that time because of bickering, jealousy, and misunderstandings. It reminded me that the bonds I share with my small family are the most valuable ties I have. I'm not sure how this fits in with this topic except that it reinforced my belief that we made the best possible decision by staying near our kids.

Perhaps the time just isn't right for you to move, maybe you'll have a diffferent view in the spring. We probably should have made this move a few years earlier but DH wasn't ready. He had just retired and it took him about 2 years to realize that it was time to turn the house over to another young family and move on.

Wishing you the best......

Maire

Maire....I am so sorry about your SIL. How heartbreaking that her brother, your DH, is an oncologist and she didn't reach out to him. I do hope the siblings stay connected.

It’s great you found a community in the same area. We looked at some places a little closer and online but nothing felt right. They were either plopped in the middle of nowhere or too expensive for what we wanted. We werent interested in condos.

So, we made the decision to move and signed a contract on a new build this week in NC. There are no rentals in the community. I still get a little weepy when i think about leaving, but i know DH is right....we’re not getting any younger and if we dont try it we’ll never know and will regret it later. Worst case scenario we stay for a year (while our house here is hopefully rented) and come back if we discover it’s not for us. Might be a costly mistake but that’s the risk we’re prepared to take.

As far as the kids.....our youngest is taking it a little hard. He’s the sensitive one and sentimental about the house he grew up in, but he has already discovered there is a Megabus between the two cities. He works from home so he’ll hop on the bus occasionally and stay for a few days. Because we hardly see our grandaughter (oldest son) it makes it easier to leave. In fact, the hard part is living twenty minutes away and seeing her only once or twice a month for an hour or two and there are other things that DIL has done that have been very hurtful re our gd and in general. I’m sure she will be thrilled we are out of the picture. Our relationship with her is civil and polite, but she has no use for us...it’s all about her side of the family. Not the grandmotherhood i anticipated at all but i have accepted that things probably wont change with her.

I got a better feeling overall about the move when we were there last weekend. As we were looking at lots a couple introduced themselves and invited us to see their home. The model we are buying is not in the model home park. We were able to see one that’s being built now and that helped but not the same as seeing the finished product. We met another couple with our model and they invited us over to see their house. So people were friendly and welcoming. I am hopeful things will turn out well.

One aspect that will be especially hard is leaving my remodeled kitchen and baths and going back to builder grade junk. I wont spend the money for their upgrades and will remodel down the road uf we stay.

The trip home took five hours instead of four but we hit rush hour in DC....that should be a rare occurance.

I have been meaning to mention....I know you are in south Jersey......i was born in Philly but we actually lived in Cinnaminson at the time. We moved when I was three but i still remembered the house and street when we visited it about ten years ago with my mom. I have cousins in Philly, Woolwich, and Laurel Springs.

Thanks again for your insight and advice...it was really helpful. Im thrilled you’re enjoying your new house and neighborhood.

Congratulations on making the decision. It sounds as though people are friendly and welcoming, to have two couples go out of their way for you is great.

Why not splurge on the kitchen though? Get everything else builder grade. It might not be as much as you think.

ETA: Your relationship with your DIL sounds similar to a friend. Her son stepped in and said, "I have a family too, you know!" He would bring the grandchild over on his own under the pretext of giving his wife time off.

Her saving grace, if you can believe this, is that DIL went back to work and didn't want to pay a babysitter after seeing how much it would be fulltime. Her son is off on Mondays so the weekly responsibility was 4 days. My friend eventually took all the days.

She felt that if this didn't happen, she would not have gotten to know the grandchild as well as she does.

Right now the MIL retired so they share babysitting as there is another grandchild was born a few months ago.

Her son is very easy going and doesn't like confrontation. But he did step forward.

I find it sad that your son doesn't see the one-sidedness to your situation and hasn't stepped up to do something about it.

Same friend has issues with Christmas. DIL is EXPECTED every year at her parents for Christmas. My friend gets Christmas Eve. No choice in the matter.

What kind of people do this? I can't imagine being demanding like this and totally not taking into consideration the other family.

Her DIL does tell her that she appreciates that my friend is easy going with the holidays.

But, my friend, in reality, is hurt by it and doesn't want to rock the boat.

Congratulations on your decision Joanie! I know it is a hard decision. It’s not one I could make as we are very close to our kids and grand kids, but I understand your feelings about it. I find it very sad that your DIL can be so cold about your grandchild, and know it must hurt. Family is important, and I hope she will realize this one day. BTW, I agree with eld, why not go for the kitchen upgrade while you are building since you may stay? Enjoy it now.

Maire-cate, I am so sorry about your SIL. I hope your family members get over their grievances with each other. And congrats on your new home. Sounds like you made the right decision and are already enjoying it.

Thank you for the update, Joaniepoanie. I think where you are going is where my sister's best friend lives. So far they are loving it as well. They were just here last month when we had all the hometown people at our house for an NFL game. My sister sent me photos when they stopped there after staying with us.

DH does closings for a 55 and older community, and the builder is making a new one that is waterfront. So, there will be more and more of these.

Maire_cate, so sorry to hear about the loss of your SIL.

Congratulations on finalizing your decision and embarking on this new adventure! Sounds like a very positive start and that has to make you feel really good. Good luck with the new build and the move. If you can swing it, I agree that making some upgrades in the kitchen now may help you feel more comfortable in your new home. Keep us posted!

Thank you for your condolences. it's always difficult to lose a loved one but how sad that my SIL and her children lost all those year.

Joanie- you lived in Cinnaminson - we were in Moorestown!

How exciting that you made the decision to move. I'm thrilled for you! You're about to start a new adventure and I think you're going to love it. We know several couples who have moved to NC and they rave about it. Plus you still have options by renting your home.

We were talking to DH's cousins yesterday and 3 of them are planning on moving to NC. They're siblings, their kids are married and they've been planning this for a year and waiting for the youngest to retire.

My next door neighbor visited a friend who had moved to NC last year and when she returned she told her DH that when he retires that's where they're going.

I can sympathize with your DIL situation. Only 1 of my 3 is married and his wife is very close to her mom and siblings. There were many times when I felt left out. We had to make our holiday plans after her family decided on theirs. The saving grace is that my DIL is easy to get along with and a good match for DS. Her mother just moved to an over 55 in Arizona so if they do have kids I'll be the resident Grandma.

When will you're new place be finished? You must be looking forward to planning your new decor. I do think that people who relocate to these new communities are friendlier and eager to make new friends. They have a renewed sense of community.

I'll be looking forward to your progress updates. Congrats again,

Maire

Congrats to both Maire and Joanie on your new homes. I think it would be so wonderful to get a fresh start. I never thought I would be interested n a 55+ community, but I might be if I could find the right one. I lost one of my best friends to ovarian cancer in the past year and another friendship has become difficult for reasons too convoluted to go into here. I love being out and about but its difficult to find someone to go along. That might be less of a problem when you have "built-in" friends.

Maire, so sorry about your SIL. Another friend of mine is on hospice care for lung cancer. So sad, and she was never a smoker.

Thank you all so much for your kind words and encouragement...it has meant a lot to me.

New house will be ready in 5-6 months but you know how those things go.

The kitchen cabs are low end Aristokraft and I think even their upgrade is particle board but i will confirm when we have the design appt in December. You can only get white or off white if you do their top upgrade package, which, if they're still particle board, would not be worth it. They do cabs on the bottom instead of drawers, etc. Id rather spend the $ on really nice cabs later with drawers if we stay. You do get granite counters incuded....the standard gold/browns, black and /blacks/grays...a few choices each. The quartz upgrade is $$$ and not worth putting over carp cabinets.

I am planning to start a thread this week asking for help with color choices....stick with beiges?.....is gray passe? Need to go over my notes first.

Thanks again all!

Congrats, Joanie, how exciting! I am so sorry about your DIL. I simply cannot understand people like that. If nothing else, she is not doing right by her children who can benefit so much from grandparents. Here is hoping maybe your GD can fly down for a visit alone sometime!

Maire, So sorry to hear about your SIL. Glad you are happy with your decision.

I too am sorry Joanie that you are being treated poorly. There's very good evidence that Grand kids live longer when they have loving supportive grandparents in their lives. I'm pretty sure the more grandparents the better.

Also condolences on your SIL Maire. That is very sad news.

So where is this 55 plus retirement place for gardenwebbers? Was that North Carolina? I'm off to talk to DH about that. ;!)

Maire_cate, I am so sorry for your loss.

Let me be clear that I am in no way saying Joanie does any of these things.

But for those who hear secondhand stories from friends about how their DIL treats them so badly, well, I'd suggest taking it with a grain of salt.

For example, someone above asked who would always go to one side of the family for Christmas. We did. For years. My in laws lived near by and made no effort to see us. We always had to drive an hour plus to see them and half the time they had some project they wanted my dh to be unpaid labor on so I spent the visit chasing our toddler by myself while they did work (they had more than enough money to pay for the work to be done, they just didn't want to). Also his family never made any big deal out of holidays--they once ate Christmas dinner at McDonald's because they went skiing. So when dh could actually get leave because it was the holidays, we went to my family. And Dh one hundred percent agreed, I did not make that decision on my own.

Another example, my ds had a milk allergy. I did not make it up; an allergist diagnosed it. But my mil ignored it. I would bring food with us that was safe for ds and she would still offer him snacks he could not have. She once offered him a pudding cup and ds actually told her he could not have it and she tried to insist to him that he could. Dh had to intervene. Well, she never got to babysit him again. And we pretty much stopped going to see them because we were never sure what food she would try to slip past us. Since they made little effort to come to see us, we saw them maybe every two or three months at that point.

So, when people tell you secondhand how awful it is that they don't get the holidays or they never get to see their grandkids, I suggest not assuming it is all because of a terrible DIL.

Again this is in no way a commentary on Joanie. I'm not doubting her point of view at all. And I am very sorry for her circumstances.

crl_, I know what it's like to be a despised DIL :-(

Rita and Crl, I know what it's like too. Mine passed away when my oldest was 1. So, I didn't have too many years of negative interactions.

In my case, MIL was actually upset that her daughter never chose well in the marriage department. The first husband lasted 10 years and he was an alcoholic. Second was 20 years older and didn't work much. He had grown children. So, MIL realized her daughter would probably lose the opportunity for children. She was right.

At any rate, in the beginning of my marriage, we all lived in the same building that my DH owned. It was very clear how a husband should treat his wife and very clear that the daughter was not treated anywhere near the way I was.

MIL would find fault in me, to raise up the esteem of her daughter! I was respectful but honestly, if this was going to go on for years, I don't know how I would have handled it.

yup, me too... have a a horrible MIL and now i have nothing to do with her. DH has to deal with her, and does out of obligation. but that's his decision and i stay out of EVERYTHING. my kids are grown and can make their own decisions about her.

way too much to get into but she is just a selfish, self centered unstable woman. i have been on the receiving end of down right mean comments & manipulation for ALOT of years and i have reached my breaking point, so now i am done. and it so freeing.!! DH understands and is ok with it. but like he says "its my mom". so his decision and his problem, not mine.

I apologize for going OT.

Eld, crl_, sprtphntc, I imagine we will be great MIL when our turn comes.

As an aside, my horrible MIL was an even worse mother. How my husband turned out to be the amazing person he is, is beyond me since I think I owe everything good about me to my loving family.