Patience, Patience, Patience.

Since I've gardened for more than forty years and this garden is 17 years old I could write a book, but i won't.
So much is about patience. I once wrote a little story about my life with hoses. I learned to patiently go back and deal with a snag instead of just angrily yanking. It's a philosophy.
To me every year is a surprise.

I'm new to OGR's but one thing I've learned this year is what you guys mean when you talk about "nobby knees"! Yikes my roses have plenty of them right now.

I've also learned about BS (hense the nobby-knees) and pot gettos. I had no clue what a pot getto was until I realized I had started one!

And Suprises? I've been surprised how quickly one year old bands take off and bloom and I've been surprised at how quickly they throw new canes from the roots. I've also been surprised at how an own root rose can die back to the ground shortly after planting it only to emerge again bigger and stronger than ever four months later!

While I'm at it...

I also discovered that my OGR's didn't read the "average height and width" discriptions that I did before I bought them. Bad roses, bad, bad, bad. LOL

I agree with ratdogheads on the virtues of patience, patience, patience... But I like to add this about misbehaving roses in the garden: when I know I'm licked I also know where to find Mr. Shovel!

Pam, too true about snagged hoses -- I have always regretted yanking -- always.

Patience really is key, especially with own-roots. I've had a number of roses that didn't take hold until 5 or 6 years in the ground and then have been wonderful thereafter. As long as the rose is going forward, not backwards, and looks like a rose I'm going to like, no Mr. Shovel until many years have passed. Celine Forestier looked very iffy for a very long time but is a robust rose today.

Thank you, Catspa, for that wise counsel "5 to 6 years" ... I still regret getting rid of Charles Darwin after the 1st year. I put Gruss an Teplitz in a pot, 3 hours of morning sun, we had non-stop rain early summer ... he was covered with aphids.

I told Kim (Roseseek) that I'll kill Gruss .... he reprimanded me, "you are not giving it enough time ... Gruss can be glorious." Then Khalid in English Roses Forum went on describing the most tough and wonderful rose in 120 degrees heat, alkaline soil, superb fragrance ... he stated at the end, it's "Gruss an Teplitz". Gruss gave me the 1st bloom, awesome scent, no modern rose can match. I planted Gruss on a steep hill, full-sun, he's doing great, I never water him either.

Thanks, Gryhwk, for your tip of "I also discovered that my OGR's didn't read the "average height and width" descriptions that I did before I bought them. Bad roses, bad, bad, bad ... " I'll make sure I give them enough room.

I've learned not to personalize failures, unless it really is my fault. Some plants just don't want to live or thrive in my garden. I try to keep my roses happy and I will go the extra miles to try to save something that obviously is not happy. But basically, if someone, including a rose, really wants to suicide, I respect that.

I hear you catsrose. There are Master Gardener's and Rosarians here that believe that if a rose is supposed to be hardy and grow here then it needs no additional care other than planting it in the ground and giving it an occasional top dressing of compost.

What amazes me, is that all they do is plant the rose in the ground (no prep work and no ammendments) and they take off and grow like crazy. I should be so lucky! LOL

I've learned never to take anything for granted. As soon as I'm smug about how glorious everything looks and congratulate myself on how well I've done, a drought decimates that lovely picture, mildew and blackspot make their presence painfully felt, and I'm sunk in despair. A few weeks later, new shoots spring up, some moribund roses send up unexpected shoots and buds, and my mood improves. There's hope, after all. Or, the rose blooms are mostly absent, but the crape myrtles are blooming and make one ignore the lagging roses. I don't need a roller coaster ride; my garden supplies that amply, especially since it's been greatly affected by the vagaries of the increasingly unstable weather patterns and higher temperatures.

I must sound a tad bipolar, but if I am it's only about the garden, because it forms such a large part of my happiness and joy in life. My fortunes ebb and flow with its successes and failures. My necessarily circumscribed lifestyle has made my garden a greater focus of attention than it might be for others.

Pam's struggle with the hose resonated greatly with me. Vicious pulling accompanied by unladylike expressions of my ire did more harm than good. I now untwist the *&^% thing, and no longer think of it as my personal enemy with malignant intent toward me (at least most of the time).

Last but not least, I've learned to give roses about three years to prove themselves before tossing them on the funeral pyre.

Ingrid

Hi Ingrid: Thank you for that rule of thumb of 3 years, I agree. A few lessons I learned:

1) The lazy way to keep grass out of your rose-bed: I put thick black plastic, "Mulch Film" sold at Menards for $5 for a big roll of 4' x 52'. I killed grass with that, then rolled the plastic under the brick border. It's 9 months, and no grass grow through that border of bricks on top, plastic under.

Since we have high rain here, I will also put black-plastic edging dug deep down to 4" as triple-protection. Putting newspaper or brown bags under the bricks work too, except it disintegrate ... thick black plastic is best.

2) How to make clay stickier ....everything I mixed with clay glued up worse. I tried everything: leaves, horse manure, grass clippings, alfalfa meal, peat moss, pine fines. The only thing that didn't glue up was coarse builder's sand ... dug that up after 12 years and it's still fluffy. I should had known better from my Organic Chemistry class: organic matters decompose, versus Inorganic matter like sand doesn't decompose.

3) Cocoa Mulch is a great way to turn your soil into an earthworm farm. Amazing, it's like 10 earthworms per scoop of soil. Cocoa Mulch needs to be watered in immediately, otherwise the scent attracts animals. Dogs get sick eating that stuff. We have heavy rain that wash the smell off, so I use that before an all-night rain.

Below picture shows how I converted grass into fluffy soil by covering the area with black plastic for a few months. The picture shows newspaper, but with the new bed I improved: When the grass is done cooking, I roll the plastic under the brick to prevent the grass from creeping inward. Also see link below for different types of sand:

Here is a link that might be useful: The right sand for the job - different types of sand

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, Jul 12, 13 at 15:24

Here's the before picture: It took 10 minutes to expand the bed: I spread black plastic, "Mulch Film" sold for $5, then hold it down with Holland Bricks (60 cents each). It takes 3 to 6 months to cook the grass into dirt, depending on how hot your sun it.

It beats pulling up grass by hand, plus paying $$ for Yard-waste disposal, plus buying more dirt or compost.

#1

Moms taste and mine do not match.

I like subtle pastels in smaller clusters

She wants massive singles in bright yellow to hot orange red. (yack)

Big smile, Kippy. Same with my mother and I. And, worse, to some extent within the same person (me). I like nearly every color of rose (excluding stripes, warm colors with harsh tones, and colors that are just weird, like Hot Cocoa or Coco Loco), but I don't like them all just thrown together. Keeping each color type together with complementary comrades in separate beds that are also do not impinge on each other visually (different directions, color gradients leading gradually to opposite colors, strategic barriers) in a relatively small garden is a puzzle that can keep one infinitely occupied.

Pour water at the bottom of the hole, BEFORE putting the root ball. Then check to see if the root ball sits straight, fill in the rest of the soil, and water the 2nd time.

After digging a hole, I should had poured a bucket of water to settle down the soil, before placing the root ball in. I failed to do so the last time, and got a crooked pine tree.

I was in a hurry yesterday, dug a hole, put the root ball immediately, threw dirt over, and watered. It sank and the rose was crooked. So I had to dig it up, and found more stones to be removed at the bottom.

Along with finding that my taste in roses was broader than I thought it was (including a relatively new realization that roses with single flowers can be delightful) -- and different from my Mom's (who doesn't like any rose "you can see the center of when it's bloomed out"), the other big surprise since commencing gardening at this place is how tolerant roses are of an apparently less-than-ideal soil.

In previous gardens I had been blessed with some very high-quality silt-loams where, if there were a problem, it wasn't the soil at least. In this garden, most of the lot is, essentially, sub-soil, with thin veneers of topsoil (one of those lots that got carved out of a hillside). The native soil is classified as a "gravelly loam", with emphasis on the gravel, and has a fair amount of clay (that somehow doesn't get mentioned in the soil name). Alkali salt blooms on soil surfaces where water evaporates are another sign of not-so-great conditions and, of course, cement-like texture when the soil is dry. But roses still grow well enough here -- it's a mystery to me and was a complete surprise.

So, like your quote, Strawberry, if you love it, go for it -- you never know.

I ask questions about certain roses but then in the end I do what Robert suggests. If it's something I really, really like I try it anyway no matter what the reviews are. Sometimes I may regret it later but then sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised too. The thing is, it took me a long time to learn it the other way round. Life is too short to waste time on the dogs so if you hate it SHOVEL PRUNE it. Don't wait around hoping it will improve or you'll like it better next year. You won't. Dig it out and put in something you LOVE!

seil, I'm with you. Although I've ditched a lot of roses because they didn't do well in my hot box of a garden, a fair number also didn't appeal to me once I had them. I also didn't fully realize what color palette I wanted in the different areas until the roses were in situ. Not everyone here was pleased with what seemed at times like rather ruthless culling of quite a lot of roses, but in retrospect I have very few regrets. Life is short and my garden is a huge part of my life.

Ingrid

Hose yanking - I had damaged quite a few plants with hose yanking. Some of them only cosmetically, some of them terminally... Then I realized that the rebar I pounded in to stabilize a big piece of railroad tie that DD#2 used to graze with the car and cause to swing over my iris (mashed a few that way) could work just as well as a hose guide in some other areas. It did, but wasn't visible enough to prevent me from running in to it and whacking my shins. Ah HAH! Home Depot has hose guides... I got some. They are the VERY cheapest HD sells, and they're ugly as sin, but they are nice and functional. I'll be shifting 2 of them, as I didn't put them out far enough, but they work beautifully. And mostly the plant leaves keep them from showing too badly.

Rose size - ROYAT, which is just down the road from me, says Mons. Tillier is 2-3 feet, with a nice scent. I either have a slightly different plant, or they're nuts. 2-3 feet my Aunt Fanny.... And mine has hardly any scent. The size thing is only important because I planted Mons. Tillier right by the stairs to the deck to the front door, thinking 2-3 feet would fill the corner nicely.... Which it does, given it's nearly 4 feet tall and still growing, and 3 feet wide, and would be wider, except the cement stairs get in the way of the spread on that side. And it's quite thorny, so we make sure we don't run into him because he draws blood. He DOES rebloom reliably, however.

Lasagna gardening, even a modified form of it, is a swell way to jump start planting anything in a flower bed with dirt nearly as hard and rocky as the asphalt road out front. And then, ironically, I discovered that the shady and very skinny bed where I killed Dr Huey (on purpose, it didn't fit there anymore and I didn't love him) has the best dirt on the lot! Who knew?! I just wish it got more sun than it does.

Gardening is fun!

Hi Minflick: I agree with all the above ... have similar experiences, dragging the hose, and wiped out my annual flowers, until I got hose guides. Lasagna method is awesome .. I layered clay soil with acidic pine mulch, came back 1 year later, it's nice and fluffy.

Since we don't have a fence in the front, I conquered BOTH deer and rabbits with the below weapons: no damage for the past month. I copy-cat the most effective weapon against deer ... Bobbex in Connecticut study. I beat 2 eggs with a touch of Thai fish sauce, a few cups of water, then basted lower leaves with a large barbecue brush. Or I just sprinkled that randomly on top.

The egg-wash above is effective for 3 weeks, despite the rain. If it rains hard, I re-enforce with the most stinky and cheap curry powder pictured below, only $2 for a big bottle. Plus stinky clove, less than $2. I learn my lesson NOT to sprinkle that hot stuff on the leaves, they burn in hot sun. I sprinkle those spices on the ground... and no bunnies nor deer come near. Work better than deodorant soap.

There's an opening in my backyard that deer came to devour my roses. I got quotes for a partial 19 feet fence, with a gate, the cost? $850, plus my husband hates trimming around the fence.

I did research on deer: They jump over the fence, if there is room ahead. If not, they go under the fence. Since deer raise their white tails to signal danger, they are afraid of white in the dark. So I hung white plastic bags on the trees, plus putting strings across as recommended by University study, at 1 foot, 2 feet, and 3 feet tall. It worked!

My arborist called this morning and we were talking about gardening. He said that his garden last year was wiped out by the deer. But was advised to hang bars of soap in panty hose around the outside of the garden (can't remember the soap brand but think he said palmolive) and this year...no deer.

Months ago I put a bar of Irish Spring soap next to Gruss an Teplitz rose. Deer came and ate 3/4 of Gruss. Plus our spring rain made a soapy mess. Deer are frightened by objects hanging rather than the smell of soap. My hanging white plastic bags from trees and putting strings across to block them work 100%. Floridarose reported a guy hanging CD's discs from a tree and successfully kept deer away. The year that I hung CD's discs on my cherry tree was the year that I kept birds away so I can make cherry pies.

There was a previous thread on keeping deer away from roses. Both studies, Illinois Walnut Council and Connecticut Agriculture concluded that fence works best, second is stinky egg-wash, which can lasts up to 3 weeks if no rain.

Mint repels deer well, is used in a few commercial deer-repellants. My Mom surrounded her 5 acres land in Michigan with a border of mint, garlic, and pink yarrow ... we never see any deer for the decades living there. I found this clever info. on using mint to fertilize roses and keep deer away, see link below, written by Ita West:

"At the end of that first growing season we moved some roots of mint into the bed with the roses. The thinking there was that mint brings a substantial amount of minerals and other nutrients from the sub soil to the top soil because of the itâÂÂs deep roots.

During the year as the mint grew to around a foot tall weâÂÂd cut it back and mulch around the roses with the cut mint. WeâÂÂre still doing that now, so the roses get fed and weâÂÂve got lots of mint for tea. The routine now is that during the year when the roses are in flower theyâÂÂre constantly mulched and fed with cut mint, in the winter theyâÂÂre pruned hard back and mulched with layers of hay."

*** I think it's clever to use plants like mint to fertilize roses, plus to keep deer away. Nutritional analysis of mint: 9% vitamin A, 2% vitamin C, 2% calcium, 7% iron, and 6% manganese ... the last 2 are much needed in alkaline soil to fix chlorosis.

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing roses without manure

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 9:17

There are rock-hard clay nuggets that I dug out from the bottom of my dolomite & limestone clay. At first I waste $$ putting sulfur on those, a few months later those concrete clay haven't softened, despite spring rain.

Then I poured vinegar on top of those clay-nuggets, one light rain was enough to soften them, so I could crumble them easily. From what I read, sulfur takes up to 1 year to work. Vinegar? It's a few days and one light rain to make clay fluffy, works really well for my alkaline clay, pH 7.7.

I've learnt that almost all methods work for a time to repel deer so I have to change them all the time. At present it is a solution of Finnish birch tar and so far the most successful method. It saved my roses this winter.

My neighbour complained to my husband today that deer had taken all her rose buds so I'm going over tomorrow to give her a sample. She's Finnish so she should appreciate it if only for patriotic reasons. We had better work together against the enemy.

I don't think any kind of bar soap does much to repel deer. It certainly didn't in my garden (Dial, Irish Spring). Garlic repels rabbits, but again, I don't think it does much to repel deer. I'd like to try the white bag and string method. Out here, though, we have mule deer, not white tails, so I'm not sure the bags will work. I'll try it soon on my tomatoes which the deer bothered more last year than my roses, and see if there are good results. If I planted mint around here, I'd have a mint garden. That pesky stuff already grows wild everywhere, including the draw in back. So far, I think cat pee balls repel deer best around here. Trouble is, it's not very esthetically pleasing to have them nestled among the roses in the front yard for passersby to see. Diane

I have so many more lessons to learn since I am still a newbie & quite ignorant of all things rose. My first lesson, start spraying for fungi prevention earlier!! My surprise, I scored a couple of pretty great roses at Lowe's.

Hi Rene: Lowe's is a great place, such healthy plants, that's where I get Lilly Miller fertilizer for my fruit trees.

Hi Diane: The Illinois Walnut Study on deer products found that garlic is useless. Deer get used to any scents eventually, except for the stinky egg-wash, which smells like death, and scare them. Cat pee & poop is repelling strong, I have no deer for the last decade with my neighbor's 4 cats using my garden ... but she moved away this summer, and I have deer for the 1st time.

Mint is frightening invasive. I have several pots, bottom cut-off that I plant mint inside those pots dug down the ground to restraint them. My next experiment is to use mint as mulch. Using sulfur, iron sulfate, acid-fertilizer really hurt my acid-plants ... so I'll try mulching them with mint leaves for trace elements.

My soil is rock-hard clay, very heavy so water doesn't penetrate well. I learn about poking breathe-holes from the soil forum, using a steel barbecue stick, or a wooden post. It works, all the watering goes deep down to the roots, rather than run off to the side. My roses in zone 5a are buried 4 to 6 inches DEEP below, so it doesn't help.

Below is picture of poke-holes around Golden Celebration. That helped to stop the wilting at 95 degrees heat, since water can do down deeper with poke-holes:

Thanks for the mint mulch tip--I may gather some out back, plus I noticed a big, old mint plant growing up through the bottom of a shrub. It will give me great pleasure to pull it up and put it to use.
My soil is rock hard in many areas like yours, Strawberry, so I'd like to try the poke holes, but do you worry about damaging the roses' feeder roots? Diane-nana

Hi Diane: Those large holes are made for Golden Cel, which I moved late March, and buried the root ball 5 inches below ground, so it hasn't form feeder surface roots yet.

For roses that form feeder roots on the surface, like own-root Romanticas, I use skinny steel barbecue sticks to poke holes along the drip lines. No damage whatsoever.

The worst glue-up with clay is alfalfa meal, rock-hard concrete 6 months later. Second is peat moss. The smaller the particle, the tighter it glues to clay. The holes which I mixed coarse pine park, or coarse sand, no need to poke breathe holes.

Pine bark is acidic pH 4.5 and slowest to decompose, so it stays separate from clay ... just like when I poured vinegar on hardened clay, it broke apart after a few days.

Our shower heads were constantly clogging with calcium deposits from my hard well-water (pH 8). It was a nuisance to unscrew them, and soak in strong vinegar. I saw a tip of using a Freezer quart-size bag, put vinegar in there, then rubber band that solution onto the shower head, no need to unscrew the shower head.