If you're happy, that's all that counts in the long run. Best of luck with your build.

BTW: The roof in the 3D version doesn't quite match the elevation drawing.

I know they don't match--we're still working with alternatives. The final roof lines and the interior ceilings are under discussion.

I'm sure it isn't perfect--but I do feel we're getting close.

You really and truly want your guests to walk in your front door and immediately BE right in your kitchen? They have less way to walk to it than you do from the garage, when bringing in groceries!

There are principles of design (Unity/Harmony, Balance, Hierarchy, Scale/Proportion, Dominance/emphasis, and Similarity/Contrast) that are present in ARG's design but not in the second design.

There are different roof pitches, ill proportioned and placed dormers, scattered gables, variation of header heights, and different main ridge terminations that make the front of the house a poor composition.

I'm also curious why your draftsman drew in pork chop returns.

Question about toilet in mbath too. A long trip from the bed

in the middle of night especially as you get older.

Re: MBR toilet placement - I prefer a little longer hike to not have to deal with the noise / light, etc.

I just noticed her toilet is right up against her master bedroom, so anyone sleeping will hear the flushing.

I agree the focus is drawn completely to the garage now with that big gable, and I do not understand the purpose of those tiny faux dormers? They are very disproportionate. I am no pro, and have only been on these forums for six months, so just a regular person opinion- args exterior is harmonious and the new exterior is very disjointed.

tiny faux dormers?

I thought they were dormer vents.

good point, cp - long walk, short distance... not getting the benefit of distance.

No access to the rear of the house and outdoor spaces from the main living spaces? My visitors and I have to go through a bunch of storage spaces to get to the outside in back for a drink and BBQ?

Neva Happan! :-)

No access to the rear of the house and outdoor spaces from the main living spaces? My visitors and I have to go through a bunch of storage spaces to get to the outside in back for a drink and BBQ?

Nope and it's missing that nice view from front entry out to the rear that ARG had designed into his version

Frankly, have to agree again. I know I built my retirement house with several ways out to the rear and it's been wonderful to use even while building.

I am guessing there is a three panel sliding glass door in the center near the corner of the dining room table. I think . . . it is hard to make out.

A few points:

• I may not have been clear that the exterior elevation and sketch are concept diagrams still to clarify our likes/dislikes, with a focus on the entry, which we were not happy with in ARG's elevation.
• The "dormers" are not faux. Once the interior ceiling plans are determined, we'll address the size.
• There is a door from the living room to the backyard
• The front door looks straight through to the back sliding door into the backyard.
• I don't feel a need to pretend I don't have a garage
• I don't even know what a pork chop return is
• We are working with is an architect--and referring to him as a "draftsman" or an ' "architect" ' (in quotes) is just flat-out unnecessarily rude

If this forum is able to chase off someone who has been active on it for a while, imagine how someone new to the forum must feel.

I don't think you need to pretend you don't have a garage, but I also don't think you want it to be the thing that draws people's focus when they look at your house - there are so many other lovely parts that you'd rather than focus on, I'd think. I like what PPF did to balance the house a bit and deemphasize the garage.

I also agree with Anglophilia that it may be odd the front door and immediately be in the kitchen. Perhaps there's a way to pull the front door out a bit into what is now the covered porch and great a foyer.

Finally, I think others are right that you may find the master toilet location less than ideal - perhaps you can rework the master closets/bathroom into an arrangement that would optimize the space a bit better.

Bethohio3

When someone posts on the build a house forum, they are asking to have their home plan critiqued.... AND they had better be thick skinned. They will get the (sometimes brutal) opinions of many people. I have yet to see anyone post a plan that has not been picked apart on several points and on occasion I have seen a plan ripped into like a pack of wolves on a sheeps carcass. But I must say, more often than not, the person who has posted the plan is very thankful for the help in the end. Sometimes, a person doesn't see the forest for the trees until it is pointed out to them. I don't critique house plans myself because I don't have the skill to see issues very well. They all look Pretty good to me. But I know the majority of the people here that do critique have a very good eye at spotting issues that could be made better. Take what you think is a needed change and ignor the rest. You asked for it, and you got it. (And I don't mean that in a snarky way).

Good luck on your build.

I have yet to see anyone post a plan that has not been picked apart on several points and on occasion I have seen a plan ripped into like a pack of wolves on a sheeps carcass. But I must say, more often than not, the person who has posted the plan is very thankful for the help in the end.

That includes me when I first posted my plan over 2 years ago and in the end, I was forever grateful for all the help and for the architects who helped me fix my Gawdawful original exterior.

Late to the party here, but I thought I would throw my change into the wishing well too... I used to live in the midwest, and still go back there every year for the Holidays. Winters there may not have much snow, but it is often cold and windy. I had a townhouse in the St. Louis area, and the front door was on the living room wall. In the winter, anytime someone used the front door and you were in the living room, you felt it. If you anticipate the front door being used in the winter, consider adding a vestibule. Especially if the front faces west, where the wind usually comes from. Think of it as a small mudroom for your guests. In warmer weather you can leave the interior door open.

I agree with the others, I do like ARG's front elevation and roof line alot better. The extra dormers just create extra seams and holes in your roof, increasing the cost to build and increasing the chances for roof leaks as the house ages.

I also like the garage in ARG's plan. Its brilliant, especially with a front facing garage. When the doors are open, all the expensive tools in the work bench area are hidden from the street view.

I know what you mean about feeling judged on here. Posters are very quick to form opinions about how your plans were crafted. Can be difficult to hear if it was done by a longtime friend, spouse, or relative. The advice on here is often not truly free, you just don't pay cash for it.

I really like the 2nd option ARG just posted. My eyes go straight to the front door instead of to the garage doors. Hope you can find a way to make your new elevations seem as harmonious.

Ultimately, the house has to work for you.

As I go through this building process, I am translating the decisions we made primarily in 2D to 3D. And realizing 2 things.

1. The things that "seemed" so important in the overhead 2D floor plan format, mean bupkus in 3D. (Example, we were positively anal in aligning the interior bar joists to line up with the overhang supports to be 5' on center. Making it "appear" that the bar joist penetrated the rear concrete wall to terminate outside the house. We probably used WAY more supports than we needed in doing this. And it's freaking darn near impossible to see the 2 at the same time to appreciate the linearity.
2. As I move through the garage / laundry / kitchen area (without a door) I am constantly tripping over the part of the opening that has a lip - i.e. the "window" part, and not using the door part. That part is further away. Had I thought more 3 dimensionally, I might have decided to move the opening portion of that door assembly to reduce the line between the garage / pantry. (minor, I know, but I am sure there will be others)

I am worried that as you go to execute that new plan, you'll realize that some of the things that are (marginally) okay in 2D (like the dormers) won't provide the look / the feel / of the function that you are anticipating in 3D.

The optional elevation from ARG is really nice as an alternative to Craftsman. Classic, well proportioned. The Exterior of the home you are currently showing, IMO, looks like a Florida tract house. I am sure you are spending good money - and I feel like the proportions of the current design are not going to accurately reflect the money or quality you are going for.

ALL THAT BEING SAID - it's your money, and if you are happy, that's fine. you simply have to have the intestinal fortitude to not let the advice get to you, or let it derail you if you are set. Your post isn't asking anything specific, so you kinda get what you get on the range of comments.

I like what Jannicone said. Its your house.

This round seems to be focused on the gables -- the largest gable could be expected to be on the most important thing. And its on the garage. There are much nicer features of your house to emphasize. If its also desired to make the house look more imposing, or grand, that can be achieved in other ways. ARG's design highlights the front door, but it also doesn't play into the current trend of zillions of roofs (of course it doesn't).

Ok, not wanting to get into what may appear to be a design contest I pulled my post with the alternate version but Beth you have it anyway.

While my favorite version of this house is the prairie style (no big surprise there since my own house has prairie influences), the second version by ARG is equally well designed, beautiful and I'm guessing it might be even better for your neighborhood. It feels grand and homey at the same time.

This second version is classic looking.

Even how the window seat bump out is designed is better. No need for another gable to put in a window seat. Gables upon gables look like builder specials. ARG's version shows there are other ways to get what you want in the interior without resorting to lipstick on the pig tricks.

Plus the garage is not the first thing you see with his version. The front porch and the door are. And the window placement is so much more elegant.

I especially love the front porch that connects the garage door to the front door and creates such a welcoming area for more than one or two people to stand as they wait for you to answer the door. I can imagine a couple of chairs and some flower pots too. Your version has basically what we in NY call a stoop. Fine for a townhouse that's narrow in NYC but not for an elegant home on land.

I actually think ARG explained it best as to why you're getting the reaction you're getting to your new version.

Now having said that, as we've said before, it's your house and you're free to do what you want with it. We don't have to like it. You do. But if you're spending 6 figures of your hard earned money, make sure it's the best it can be.

Thought about it and realized without the drawing it renders many comments meaningless which I never have liked when it happens to me so out of respect for those folks I'll repost the second elevation I provided Beth. I forgot what I wrote however.

Here is what ARG said originally. It was still on my IPad. So for context;

Two things....the gable over the garage in your drawing and PPF's only draw the eye to all those garage doors, something I try to avoid.

And if you recall Beth, I gave you all two elevations. I really liked the Prairie but was concerned about Stan wanting all brick with big pillars (the photos generally at the bottom of your "exterior" ideabook since it appears you've added many more since then). You're the only people I've done that for. It's here, What happened to that?

As a minimum, I'd get the garage pulled back where I had it, about 10' behind the porch (one reason the porch wraps the corner BTW, a design subtlety that minimizes all those garage doors) and get rid of the gable (and it's the largest gable at that!) over the larger of the garage doors. Gables are a great tool when a focal point is needed, like over a FRONT door. That one does a great job of emphasizing the large garage door. We're not pretending you don't have a garage, we're just not going to make it a focus as it is now. While your entry does have a gable, there's no "focus on entry" because it's dwarfed by the massive garage gable.

Note: For the new folks here and for those that may not remember, I tried mightily for a side load but failed there.

Beth,

Be careful. We know is your home but what your new architect did, is not better than what ARG is suggesting.

Sorry PPF but I still prefer ARG's versions. All the elements on ARG's work well together. Yours looks like another version of a builders special trying to make a ranch look important. Sorry.

Sorry PPF but I still prefer ARG's versions.

Me too.

@PPF - The wispy clouds just don't cut it, you need some thicker ones... It's the clouds man, the clouds.

See!!

Interesting that ARG's version looks smaller than the house probably is, and PPF's version looks "larger" than the house probably is... and then the "new" elevation. Interesting perspective from 3 different visions (4 if you include the original Craftsman!) of what the house could be - with essentially the same floor plan.

I like every version of the elevation anyone drew better than the OP's. The OP's says, "Welcome to my garage!" The rest of the house looks like a mishmash afterthought. It's really off putting.

PPF just got some CLOUDS!!!!!

Sometimes we have to make difficult choices, like between good design and marital harmony.

I would go with ARG's design and get a new husband.

I really like ARG's second design. Looks classic and timeless and a great way to make a large house look like it isn't massive.

What is it that you want from the exterior? What is it that YOU liked in the original post and what is it that you don't like? What style do you want/like. What's your inspiration?

The one in the original post just looks off to me. Seems like if you want dormers you need a taller roof. Also the first thing you look at is the garage. Is that the focus you want. It also seems unbalanced to me with the small gable on the left and the huge garage gable. The dormers also look squat and odd like some eyes on a crocodile cartoon character. It also makes the house look really long/large/squat without really any nod to any particular style, but rather several different pulled in and attached to a box.

Not a whole lot more to say on this thread, it seems to me. The OP and husband like the local architect's design as opposed to ARG's. All of the comments to the contrary seem to be ignored.

That's the way it goes sometimes...

What I like is the U shaped front of the house that makes the front yard the center of a courtyard type entry.

The dormers are too small--we're talking to the architect about this. They are not faux dormers--they will provide light into the great room/kitchen--more like skylights. We like the triangles.

The architect looked at the images in my ideabook and we talked about which ones we really loved the "feel" of--and he captured that.

We just don't seem to be drawn to the flatter front of the house. I understand where people are coming from. It just isn't where we are. (For the record, I've been told I'm drawn to "standard builder" elevations--that appears to be true.)

We've also talked with the architect about swapping one closet and the toilet closet (good input), asked about the corner of the second office, removing the door to the pantry from the garage, and opening the workshop wall in the garage to allow access to the mudroom. Also, replacing the linen closet in the master with a tower cabinet to the left of the sinks.

"...Don't let the comments get you down. The whole point of a custom house is to satisfy YOUR needs and tastes..."

Here we go again. A poster comes to the forum asking for input. If the input doesn't meet their preconceived ideas, a stand-off occurs.

And then...someone always says, "it's your house; do what you want!".

And some of us scratch our heads and wonder, why didn't the OP just do that in the first place and save us all some time and effort.

On to the next thread...

And some of us scratch our heads and wonder, why didn't the OP just do that in the first place and save us all some time and effort.

There are two types of folks who come on here. Those who truly want to make their home better and those looking for validation that what they have is wonderful. Those who come on here to for validation are just looking to prove they're on the right track. When they don't get the validation the expected, they get upset and defensive as to why their way is fine as is.

Then to prove they are not just looking for validation, they show us how they are making a change based on a minor comment, like the swing of a door, or in this case swapping the closet with the toilet.

The comments on this forum are getting very tiring. You can only take so much from a bunch of retirees telling you to get off their lawn.

First off, I'm not a retiree. I'm still very much working as is ARG and Mark.

Secondly if you find it very tiring, you're free to not come to this forum. :)

"Secondly if you find it very tiring, you're free to not come to this forum. :)"

Sorry, I didn't realize it was your lawn.

Floorplan wise, there's not all that much that changed between ARGs plan and the new one - but there are certainly tweaks (change in the master bath for example). the largest . most dramatic change is one of the exterior, in my opinion.

Floor plan layout is always one of tradeoffs - do you want the toilet close to your bed at night, or will it potentially be noisy if it's too close? Doyon want your laundry close to where you spend your time or where you keep your clothes? Do you want a simply shape and roofline or do you want an L or H shape with dormers to make more effective use in a story and a half type design?

However, there are particular design principles that have withstood the test of time - and they tend to show through all types of design and that's scale and proportion. There may be "some" personal opinion on that - but there are also folks trained that can explain why things look "off" to the rest of us.

I posted my plan specifically NOT looking for advice, but to validate that I had worked with an architect and had a work product (i.e. speaking from experience). Well I got it anyway. And made some changes while still in the phase that I could without them being costly. And to be fair - the OP didn't ask for feedback, but that's an inevitable byproduct of posting something here.

And if you want feedback on something specific, say it, and tune out the other stuff. And if you are confident in the decisions, and have faith in your architect / their skill / the execution, etc - then the heck with what you get back.

It is our collective lawn, so to speak, with certain protocols and standards that have developed over the years representing those who regularly post. Tthis group has retained its professional architects and builders and knowledgeable members and has resisted the dumbed down, smiley faced, "how do I dig up this beautiful garden and plant grass?" banality so often found on various discussion boards.

This is a forum for those who want to build a well-designed, functional home and are willing to accept honest criticism in order to learn and achieve their goals, rather than those who prefer to stay in their comfort zones and receive approving pats on the head.

Some comments are frequently repeated, but these items are generally essential in creating an enjoyable, efficient home.

I agree with cpartist — there are plenty of forums that will simply vomit up what you want to hear, and if that's what you want you are free to frequent them instead. I personally treasure this site, even with its occasional snarky responses. Or, knowing me, perhaps because of them!

I deeply appreciate Mark Bischak, ARG, Naf Naf, Vigil Carter and other professionals who take the time from their schedules to offer extremely valuable advice for free. I also greatly appreciate those such as cpartist, Mrs. Pete, jannicone and others who also spend amazing amounts of time helping those they don't even know. How typical of today's world that someone would criticize them for putting their well-considered opinions into writing instead of thanking them for their efforts.

One interesting thing to me is that this shows how people value different things. For me, the exterior of the house is of less importance, so DH is making the calls there. The floor plan is of high importance to me (especially the kitchen), so I make most of the calls there.

DH is pretty wonderful so I'm not trading him for someone with more sophisticated taste in elevations :-)

We obviously kept most of ARG's floor plan (there were changes we made together that aren't on the initial drawing). The elevations were an issue--they didn't work for us. That doesn't mean the new elevation is perfect; we're in further discussions and some valid points were made. Our architect looked at our ideabooks and the things we said we really loved and used those, even if that means our taste is plebeian :-)

"Secondly if you find it very tiring, you're free to not come to this forum. :)"

Sorry, I didn't realize it was your lawn.

It's not my lawn but our collective lawn. However you're the one who was "finding it very tiring." And you were the one making nasty comments about retired people. Funny how those who start it can't take it.

"Funny how those who start it can't take it."

It is funny.

"...One interesting thing to me is that this shows how people value different things. For me, the exterior of the house is of less importance, so DH is making the calls there. The floor plan is of high importance to me (especially the kitchen), so I make most of the calls there..."

OK. I get it. Whatever works for you.

But (and there's always a but, isn't there?), here's the thing. Site planning, interior plans and design, and exterior style, scale and proportion are all one and the same thing. What happens in one effects the others. One cannot make a decision in one of these spheres without it affecting all the others. All three elements of residential architecture are linked together and inseparable.

Having a different person be the decision maker in each of the three areas of residential architecture will achieve predictable results. Much better is a spouse-architect team reviewing and making informed decisions in all spheres and fully understanding the linkages and effects of their decisions.

Maybe you are doing this. But it's your house and you should do what you want...