This is my old home's kitchen. The kitchen felt like the island was huge when I was there. I truly loved the C shaped kitchen. It did have a similar setup from fridge to stove to sink...it never seemed too far. Actually to get from one side of the kitchen to the other was quick anyway. The biggest issue was the dishwasher right in the main doorway. The cabinetry on the wall opposite the fridge was the drop zone...didn't like that either. I did keep all my baking stuff in that drop zone cabinetry. There was a small pantry a few feet from the sink that I kept most of the food items...the rest were in the basement pantry. The island had 2 height levels. I didn't really care for that either.

So you're the only cook in the family? No one ever helps because with the cooktop in the corner like that, no one can help.

Also with the arrangement you came up with, the majority of your kitchen will not be used. Normally we take food out of the fridge and the pantry (purple arrows) and bring it over to the sink.

We then wash the food and then prep it between the sink and the cooktop (green arrow) and then finally bring it to the cooktop to cook. (blue arrow)

Plus you're crossing zones. (purple and green arrows)

Another problem is you have your oven where people will be going to get drinks from the bar and going out to the deck. That can become a hazard.

I would suggest you post your floor plan with how the kitchen relates to the rest of the floor and let the gurus come up with something that will work better.

One change to consider is switching the fridge to the current baking area and recessing it into the pantry area if you want a full-depth fridge. Then I would slide down the sink toward the new fridge location.

Another thing to think about is centering the stove or cooktop between two windows on the back wall...it is an awesome look and feature.

Cpartist-When my husband and I cook together, one does prep type stuff and the other helps with that and does the stove. In our previous kitchen, I only used the island for prep. I soaked veggies in a colander if need be, but all baking and prep was done on the island.

There is not a door shown, but there will be a door from the dining to the deck. I would not envision having company use the bar area.

The pantry is a little distance from the stove. This is what caused me to post a week ago when I realized that I would probably be putting the majority of my food there....maybe I need to rethink this?

i am completely open to changing the baking cabinet space too.

ranton-I had thought about having the fridge against the pantry like that.

I've seen a ton of photos of the windows flanking the stove. They do not really appeal to me. I have considered flipping the kitchen to an L facing the living room. But I do so much at the island and would rather have a direct view outside than watching other people in the living room. I loved working in my previous C kitchen and really would prefer to make this work than go the open concept route.

ice water stone fire

Maybe putting the fridge on the pantry wall, the baking cabinet where the ovens are and the ovens where the fridge is. You said you do most of your prepping on the island in your last kitchen, did you use the island sink or the main one? Personally, I think having the island all one level will make it much bigger than a multi level one of the same dimensions, because you can use the entire space at once. In that case, you could consider a small prep sink if you would use it.

Edited to add:

Putting the fridge on the pantry wall would also allow you to make a breakfast station, have the coffee maker and supplies there, along with the toaster (either in a drawer/upper cabinet or on the counter top) And it is close to the pantry for cereal/oatmeal prep.

Joy-I think the fridge on the pantry wall would work fantastic as then it would be closer to the outdoor kitchen space also. But wouldn't it be getting too far from the stove then? Or are you also suggesting I have my stove closer to where the sink is?

Yes, the 2 levels was not fantastic for prep. However when my kiddos helped, they would use the barstools on the higher level. I used my small sink more because it was there as a secondary sink. The whole time, I really just wanted an unobstructed island. I originally wanted the main sink to be a large 2/3 double bowl. After reading all the comments on the large single versus the double, I am thinking I may just get some colanders that extend the width of the sink and do a large single sink. If I really needed a second sink for something, I could use one at the bar space.

I had considered putting the stove at the island. That wouldn't be my first preference.

Curious why you would put the stoves on the original fridge wall versus putting the baking cabinet there? I'm open to it, just curious what the advantages would be (I think you are seeing more to the picture if I do that?).

Just realized my coffee maker was in between the pantry/sink at my last house....where the natural prep area would be. The reason I like the C kitchen is I can see into the adjacent living room (adjacent to the dining), and look out to the deck or the outdoor space.

I was thinking the ovens closer to the cooktop would put them out of the more heavy trafficked aisles -to the fridge and pantry/bar area. It would give you a landing place behind on the island, and beside on the counter that is more easily reached. Also the baking cabinet (unless I'm missing some new appliance) is essentially a dedicated pantry for baking supplies, so having it near the area where you put away groceries and store cold baking ingredients, made sense.

It is really a decision you would have to make re: the sink placement. Are you able to move the window (thus the sink) down closer to the pantry/bar area without causing problems on the exterior visually? Are you comfortable prepping on the island and having to cross the aisle to use the sink, or would you rather have a small sink on one side of the island, even though it is frustrating for some (very valid) reasons?

It all comes down to how you and your family cook and use the space. For example, I have to sit down to prep due to RA, so a big goal in our remodel/new build (we haven't decided which yet) will be to have a table height area where I can do that. I also love baking shortbread which requires a large area where I can roll out the dough and spread out with my cookie sheets.

My best advice is to make a list of wants/needs in order of importance/possibility. For example, how much of a priority is no sink in the island, or having the cooktop in the corner? What are you not willing to compromise on and what are you willing to put up with because it makes everything else work?

Are you comfortable prepping on the island and having to cross the aisle to use the sink, or would you rather have a small sink on one side of the island, even though it is frustrating for some (very valid) reasons?

I try to keep my (distracting) kids out of the kitchen when I am cooking. So prepping at the island, and turning around to the sink is really not an issue as I am not crossing anyones' path. I have tried keeping my kitchen away from through traffic. The bar and exterior door were added more for the main cook than as primary access. I do not see more than 2 cooks in the kitchen at any time. When my MIL comes, I try to keep her on the barstool side of the island. So if she wanted to help, she could definitely do so on that side. I enjoy working on one side and having a person to converse with straight across from me. My husband and I do not regularly cook together. He is a great cook and will take over some nights. When we do cook together, it is something fun like making a Japanese hibachi dinner after the kids go to bed. I usually pre-cook the rice and prep the veggies earlier, then drink wine while he cooks on the stove.

Also the baking cabinet (unless I'm missing some new appliance) is essentially a dedicated pantry for baking supplies, so having it near the area where you put away groceries and store cold baking ingredients, made sense.

I can see that. I am thinking more a 3-4 foot wide cabinet that I can open and have my Kitchenaid mixer ready to go. Also a counter space that I can spread stuff out if need be. I would keep all my decorating supplies handy there too. I'm wondering if that wide of a cabinet would look too heavy where the wall ovens are?

Are you able to move the window (thus the sink) down closer to the pantry/bar area without causing problems on the exterior visually?

The exterior would be fine with the window moved. It is more the interior that I was hoping to have the window centered.

I also love baking shortbread which requires a large area where I can roll out the dough and spread out with my cookie sheets.

I enjoy making batches of cinnamon rolls, which also take up a large rolling space. Between that and wanting to do mass canning, the island space would get used quite often.

My best advice is to make a list of wants/needs in order of importance/possibility. For example, how much of a priority is no sink in the island, or having the cooktop in the corner? What are you not willing to compromise on and what are you willing to put up with because it makes everything else work?

1-Large bumped out window.

2-Large island

These are my 2 can't live without requirements. If I can't make the C kitchen work, I will likely change the floorplan to have the kitchen exterior wall come in so that the sink wall comes forward 8 feet. The kitchen/dining could be 24.5 feet long then and however wide. The island would then look at the living room fireplace. Basically how every house seems to be laid out right now. My view would no longer be out the back but into the living room. My kids will be hanging out in the basement most of the time. This is more open concept than I wanted. I'm also not sure this would give me any more total cabinetry.

RE: The baking cab area, are going with regular uppers/lowers that are dedicated (via internal storage options) to baking supplies and having the mixer on the counter? Or are you thinking about an enclosed/tall cabinet like for wall ovens?

Leaving it out is my plan because I don't trust the things that raise and lower it, and they are waaay too heavy to move from a pantry. We have a cover that matches the curtains to keep dust out.

Others will be by shortly to give advice on efficiency in the layout for normal traffic flows, that is not something I have much experience with as every kitchen I've worked in has been either too small to be really efficient, or just plain awkward/dated efficiency.

I didn't read all the responses, so maybe this plan has been proposed. It would put the fridge closer to the cooktop than if it is on the pantry wall, and it's still a direct shot from the DR. It's more than the usual 9' max, but it's in the natural progression from fridge-->sink-->prep-->stove.

The landing space for the ovens is the bar counter. I omitted the short dividing walls between the bar/pantry and the kitchen. The MW is on a shelf or in a drawer near the fridge.

If you like symmetry, the 36" pot drawers could be made to appear as if they are two 18" drawers to match the 18" drawer to the right of the cooktop.

Joy-I'm attaching photos of what I am sort of thinking for the baking cabinet. I don't want the deal that raises the kitchenaid, as I'd rather be able to have a useful pull out drawer for flours or something.

I would like to have push in doors with these photos do not show (just grabbed some from Houzz).

mamagoose-Thank you for the ideas. I hadn't thought about putting the fridge on the back wall. I have considered the stovetop on the wall you put in...honestly if I did that, I would probably do a nice 48 inch stovetop.

I'm not a fan of lazy or super susans....and I would be constantly reorganizing with my family. I could do the wall ovens in the corner?

By moving the cooktop to that wall and the fridge over to the pantry, the walk from the pantry to stove and from the fridge to the stove is longer than I had originally?

I would ideally like the sink/window centered. I'm not sure if the fridge on the back wall would be too much weight?

I feel like if I move the stovetop over to that wall, that I would be using that whole wall for cooking stuff. Then moving the fridge to the window wall eats up the trash and dishes on that wall. Maybe that is the way it is done, but I just sort of had in my head that dishwasher/trash/dishes all go next to the sink. Prep gadgets go at island, etc.

One reason I like the plan I posted is because there are no vertical elements on the side to block the kitchen from the DR, but if we go back to your plan with the fridge on the left, and the corner cooktop, you could get the pantry entry closer by flipping the pantry with the bar. If you give up the baking counter and do the baking prep on the island, you can have a longer island with a prep sink (or not).

Hmmm..

I wanted a 6*8 pantry...It is sort of cut to 5*8 now, but I figure it may end up at 6*8 anyway so to not stress about it. The pantry could be bumped to the front a bit though (it is between the kitchen and deck...odd location, but we have an awesome valley with views on 2 sides).

My dining table would be directly in front of the island, so the baking pantry wouldn't be in the way. I really prefer a c type kitchen to the L that everyone has now. I'm already paying for it in an additional 100 square feet or so versus having an L kitchen that faces the living room.

I could adjust the pantry/bar space a bit though and maybe move the stove to be angled where the wall ovens were? Maybe deepen the kitchen just a bit and put the fridge and the oven against the pantry wall?

Joy-I am just over appliances on the counter! In my last kitchen, I kept all the baking stuff together. I still used the island for my baking. But it would be nice to be able to keep all those things together.

So it seems that the biggest problem everyone has is that my pantry is too far away from the sink, stove, fridge and island? Originally I had envisioned the pantry being my main backup pantry. Then I sort of realized that even though this kitchen is a little larger, the extra appliances/sizes were eating up some of that. The only space I kept food in my last kitchen was a wall height 15/18 inch wide pantry cabinet. Most of the time, I actually went downstairs to get another can of green beans or whatever. Maybe if I deepened the kitchen enough to get one or two slide out pantries next to the fridge? Maybe it is just because I'm a little shy of 40, but honestly the distance from the pantry to the island is pretty short. In my teeny kitchen now, I spend most my time searching for stuff that wasn't put away properly or is now unorganized (love the help of family unloading the dishwasher!). The 15 seconds it takes me to walk to the pantry and back to the island seems pretty fantastic by comparison. When I started this post:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4840159/adjacent-pantry-what-food-do-you-keep-in-kitchen

many people said they like keeping the majority of their food in their pantry. I really do get the concept of the triangle, but also am pretty realistic that I will have to go to my basement pantry once a week or so for missing items too. For example, I keep large bags of rice in the basement (they take up a lot of room and it is cooler). I may devote extra space in the upstairs pantry for some of that, but am not storing 25 pounds of flour and several kinds of rice on the main floor. But my last pantry also literally had a minimum of 3 months worth of food should anything happen....another reason I prefer the idea of a gas stove!

I do think if I had even one narrow pull out pantry, I could fit most of the commonly used ingredients in that. Some stuff, like green beans are kept in the fridge/freezer anyway.

'm not a fan of lazy or super susans....and I would be constantly reorganizing with my family. I could do the wall ovens in the corner?

Like you, I'm not a fan of lazy or super susans. You can do what many others do and make it a blind corner. Or do like I'm doing in my new kitchen and put in corner drawers. Here's the [LINK[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/shaker-grey-transitional-kitchen-phvw-vp~88208) as the upload for houzz photos now isn't working.

I feel mama's version works so much better for you based on what you said your needs are. Additionally it's a traditional L shaped layout that follows the Ice, Water, Stone, Fire. I had that years ago in my second kitchen and while that second kitchen was probably my smallest kitchen to work in, it was also my most efficient and easiest to work in.

And yes, I'm a fan of those baking cabinets. I can see maybe also having a shelf underneath that pulls out to give you more working space too.

cpartist-yeah, I've looked at all the corner options!

Moma's plan is nice, but if I have an L kitchen, I'll just face it to the living room. I really don't want to loose that extra 4 foot of wall cabinet space.

I did originally have my 6*8 pantry only in that space (no bar). I made a slight concession to add the extra run of cabinets to serve as a landing for hosting parties on the deck. I also think we will like having that access when grilling, even though the other door is not far either.....but this drops you directly at the outdoor kitchen....the other route is about double the walk. The bar is not really for company. I was going to put the under counter icemaker, an extra small dishwasher, and a small sink. I also may keep reusable water bottles there....I keep telling myself I am going to stock up on them someday.

I do think it could be nice also having the stove on the fridge wall, the ovens in the corner, and the fridge either where the ovens or the baking cabinet. If I moved the stove to that wall, it would probably to a 48 inch stove, with the sides that come down around it. I would also loose the symmetry that I had in mind having the fridge and baking cabinet both have a display shelf above.

The advantage of the fridge being by the deck is quicker access from there too. Although I do think we will end up with a summer fridge on the deck for drinks. I could see doing the microwave under the island by the fridge, and a bread drawer somewhere over there too to keep the kids primarily on that side of the kitchen.

How does the layout get affected by putting a small prep sink in the island?

The only time you will notice that it's symmetrical is when you're standing directly in front of the kitchen at just the right angle to see it. Otherwise it's just a photographic illusion that designers do to fool us.

Make it balanced, not symmetrical. There's a difference.

How does the layout get affected by putting a small prep sink in the island?

Which layout? Yours or mama's?

One other thing. For the pantry to get the most use of the shelves, make the doors pocket doors.

Honestly, I really think Mama's layout works very well. Because of what you've said, I'd forgo the prep sink and go with a Kohler Prolific with two faucets or something similar. This way it's all there and 2 people can be working at the sink at the same time.

Additionally, then you have your island either for staging food, or for the kids to sit and do homework, or as a secondary baking surface.

"Oh, and my draftsman said code would want my exterior door coming in."

The underlining is from a different conversation, but right below the first red line, you will see the stipulation for an outswing door. That should not be a big problem on a deck.

@B Carey, did you end up going with the corner cooktop? If so, do you like it and would you consider posting photos?