Searched on "4 O'Clocks" and this discussion came up. Nice old discussion! In my area (Maritime NW) I have never seen 4 O'clocks in the nurseries and big box stores. I'm speculating that's because most of their flowers are sold in bloom, and 4 O'clocks bloom when larger. They probably don't bloom in little 6-packs or even in 1-gallon containers. I'm guessing about that. Also, if the flowers are not reliably open when the stores are open, people might not buy them. I bought seeds via the internet. Feeling nostalgic about gardening from my childhood, and these 4 O'clocks were part of that. I grew some about 10 years ago and as I recall they did OK here. I'm more into gardening now than I was then, so maybe they'll grow better. Plus I have a deer and rabbit problem, and maybe they'll be resistant to those animals. Maybe. I read start them 6 to 8 weeks indoors before the last frost, for cool climates like mine. They can also be planted in the ground, but maybe will start blooming later. A packet has plenty of sees, so I can try both. Nice discussion! I've lost the experiences of older gardeners in my family, and it seems there aren't a lot of gardeners in my neighborhood, so it's up to me to discover what works and what doesn't. Pass-along plants like these are worth preserving for the next generation!

Vikki, Linda started round 2- on another thread! It's already in progress! I think the title is 'Another Spring round robin'.. Ok, The box is here- in it is... Leaves of Picasso Senk's blue cascade Sansaucy coco Laini Grape glory Cirelda Bishop Apache war bonnet Looking glass Ann Island hideaway Buckeye country charm Harbor blue Sky of Mars Opt. Ever joy Myakka trail Marching trail Rhap. Deborah Untamed heart Rob's Galiwinkle Naomi's after slou? Ness crinkle blue Galactic storm The madam Silverglade plums Ethel's explosion Ness satin rose Steel blue Kentucky bride Ma's flammable water Couple of strep leaves-blue mars, Neil's Danica, Lil' tequila! And a devils backbone. Some of the leaves have one, some two! Thanks Everyone for such a nice RR!! I'm thrilled with all the varieties! See you again in the Fall! I'll host another RR! And if someone's wants to do 2- we will have Two boxes going! I have a feeling we are in for a long, HOT summer! Happy growing! Hugs, Deb

Hello all, Sorry to hear about those of you who had damage and power loss. And more sorry to those we havent heard from yet who still are powerless. I live in shrewsbury and we went 48 hours without power. There are tons of trees down in my area and 7 power lines down on my little street. Thankfully the work crews removed the trees in the street and got power going...I myself am very happy with the level of help everyone has offered and impressed with the restoration of power in such a short period of time. My 2 year old and 5 year old were shockingly good throughout the whole experience. Absolutely not one single complaint about cold or boredom or lack of tv. We got a fire going and huddled in the living room. We said we were pretend camping and read books by candlelight and did crafts by the fire. My wife traveled south to buy box of joes for the work crews to stay warm and show our appreciation. When life gives you lemons.... I myself am only bummed about the plant destruction. I lost a beautiful lilac that was here for greater than 50 years (split in half and lying on the gound). My newly planted blue spruce fat albert is snapped in half (and this was a memorial tree for our dog who just died). And lots of limbs off the evergreens and maples and oaks in the back. Lots of work ahead means lots of firewood for next year. Any thought as to how to possibly save the blue spruce or lilac? My sympathies again to all who have suffered. This sort of event really makes you appreciate that we have electricity and power in the first place. Think of our ancestors and settlers....I am blessed to have my computer back and my cable and warm water and aahhh, a shower. sunshineboy

@David Sagarias....I read the article you tagged. I mean, unfortunate for sure, but, I would definitely not let that stop me from building with Toll. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but, the author strikes me as the type who claims that everything bad happens to him and nothing is his fault. My guess is there is more to the story. I'm not trying to suggest that Toll is your local, hometown credit union who treats you like family - they're not - they're a huge organization with many irons in the fire and specific processes set up to enable them to achieve their bottom line. They wouldn't be able to function at the level they function without them. And my guess is they've been burned too often by people who get right to the end of the process and then for whatever reason, can't close. Toll has no choice to impose the deposit structure and deadlines they do or they'd be stuck trying to flip houses that have finishes they would never have chosen and now can't sell. As a purchaser, I don't want them spending their time managing that - I want them focused on building good houses. Yes, they do have pretty stringent non-negotiables, but they're very clear about them in the paperwork and like any other major purchase you make in your life, the onus is on you to understand them or get an atty. to walk you through it. I don't know....to me, there's something a little suspect about a guy buying an $800k house in NC who keeps getting dinged for late payments on his credit report that are completely not his fault. I can't speak to the sales staff or construction managers at his community, but the ones at mine - particularly sales, were very friendly, efficient, and problem solvers right up to closing - and beyond, actually. I think I'm just saying, be more concerned about construction quality than their ability to manage other people's issues. I realize that they, like all production builders, have had communities that you'll read not-so-great things about, but there are communities that also turned out beautifully....nobody writes about those because, well, why would they? It's unfortunate that we're in times of COVID and your ability to mingle with folks in the community you're looking at are limited, but if you can talk to some of them, that may give you a much better idea. I am in a townhouse community that is being built out just down the road from a single family home community that's been done for quite a while -- and I heard nothing but good things from there. It's a tough call -- custom build or production -- both have pluses and minuses. Good luck with your decision. (And lastly, if you don't already know, if you don't need to rush your decision, don't.....lumber and material prices are still way up, and getting materials in, thanks to COVID and shipping challenges, is not so easy right now.)