Wow ! What a space! I don't have an issue with the cooktop on the island since you have moved the seating away from it - you will however need more than 24" between the cooktop and the galley sink for countertop space. I would move the trash to the end , slide the sink and dishwasher down and put that drawerbase next to the cooktop. Please get a quality exhaust with a remote blower - that way you can use it at the higher cfm and not have it sound like a jet engine. I do agree that a 60" walkway is quite wide especially considering you will need the island as a landing space for whatever comes out of the ovens. Pull that in about 6-8 " but no more than 12".

The only other thing to consider is the seating of a higher countertop.... it will look great when done right but will it be comfortable for everyone in the household and frequent guests. Young children and the elderly do not do well on bar stools...you may want to do a reverse and drop the top just under the upper...

Once you start working with a designer, they will get this into a 3d for you to see and that will help a lot!

Good luck!!

At a glance, I don't really see any usable prep countertop at all. The dishwasher is between the sink and cooktop, which is not ideal. Also, the lower left seat on the bar doesn't look like there is any legroom, since it's a drawer bank. Is there a particular reason why you have two different oven cabinets? And two microwaves? And two really oversized sinks?

You have a blank slate, and the potential to have an amazing kitchen, but I think there are a lot of poor choices going on here. If we could hear some reasoning behind the current choices, it might help us understand better.

The blueprint version above shows a slightly different configuration with the range along the wall. The version in the first post however is the version we are interested in discussing, just wanted to include the original to show the relationship of the kitchen to the rest of the home.

The island cooktop would have an overhead hood with remote blower.

I am open to stacking both ovens in a single cabinet.

The second microwave is really just because the kitchen is so big, and from time to time that's the one appliance we sometime have to wait for. Just thought 2 made sense.

The large sinks were because we have a stages 45" now and really liked it, so we wanted to do another large prep sink. The cleanup sink could easily be reduced.

There seems to be very little usable counter space in this kitchen. The island has absolutely none between a large sink, a stove (please reconsider!), and that raised bar. Where are you going to prep food?

Also, you say you have young kids but you put a stove on an island and then raise the island? Makes no sense.

I'm not sure I see a point of that desk tucked in the back corner. Most kitchen area desks turn into a breeding ground for junk.

To start with, I'd move the fridge/freezer to the left wall and the cooktop to the bottom wall. Move the island sink more towards the center. Now you have lots of prep space on both sides of the island sink and on both sides of the cooktop.

Usually seems like people with 2 DW put them both at the clean-up sink. How do you envision using yours?

Wow! All that space and a very small kitchen with limited counter space! My kitchen is 11x15 and I have twice as much space as you do! Also, it appears that both the breakfast room and the DR are a LONG way from the kitchen - very inconvenient. I'd start over completely - this is very bad design.

I like Caligirl5's plan but the cleanup sink is on the opposite wall from the DR and breakfast area. Do you really need it if you have a Stages on the island?

The path from garage to the pantry is long and passes through the heart of the kitchen.

Do you really need a breakfast table and a dining room table and seating at the island for 6 people?

caligirl5, if you move the refer to the left wall, wouldn't that be much less convenient that directly behind the island? I agree there needs to be more prep room on the island, however, if this could be solved, wouldn't the fridge be best where I show it?

Several people here have mentioned the lack of prep space, which I do agree with, but aren't these accessorized sinks (stages or galley) designed to have the prep work done directly on or in them, negating the need for as much counter adjacent to these sinks?

cpartist, No, I don't need the seating at the island, but I don't think it hurts much either.

I think the galley prep sink would be fine, although I'd like to see a little more counter between the sink and cooktop. I don't care for cooktops on islands, but I think you've integrated it safely and elegantly. In the following version, the trash pull-out is on the corner of the island, to be shared by prep, cooking, and clean-up. The island is all one level, and the side with the four seats can be moved in so that the back edge of the island is one continuous line.

I switched the fridge and freezer, and stacked the ovens, to give you landing space for the ovens and the fridge. DWs flank the clean-up sink, with dish storage convenient to each. Is this a kosher kitchen?

Mama Goose,

We do have 2 dishwashers in our current kitchen, both on one side of our cleanup sink. CaliGirl mentioned that my split version was unusual also. The reason I had thought about putting one in the island was the cleanup sink felt like a 5 minute walk away, so I thought maybe having one closer to the center of the kitchen might be convenient.

No, it's not going to be a Kosher kitchen, but for resale, making it so it could be wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thank you for the other ideas as well. I like your trash location, and maybe the flipping of the refer and freezer. I'm not really sold on the landing space next to the fridge, however, I think the aesthetics of having the entire wall built in behind the island might be a little more important than the added counter space, IF I can maybe make a little more room on the island.

TJ

Have you seen a 3D or rendering of it? The solid wall of cabinets as the main focal point seems overwhelming to me, like it will completely take over the kitchen visually. It's interesting that that's a plus for you, when it was an instant con for me.

Would it help, aesthetically, if the freezer was moved to the other side of the run, and the landing space was centered on the island and prep sink? You could have glass doors in the uppers to further reinforce the symmetry of the island/seating, sink, and 'hutch'.

I notice that this is a Galley sink. Doesn't the Galley sink act as counterspace because of all its' inserts? Essentially the entire sink can be covered with the various accessories, so it's not like a regular sink. They even sell a freestanding cabinet where the Galley sink takes up the entire top.

So here it's shown right next to the cooktop, but that's because it's meant to be used as the prep counter, if I get the concept:

Hi teamj!

Maybe you can get some more inspiration from this kitchen for the wall of tall cabs behind the island. Island looks close enough for landing in this kitchen, but with 5' aisle I think you you need some counter at the back wall (as mama suggested). It can be behind doors like this appliance garage perhaps?

Contemporary Kitchen · More Info

Contemporary Kitchen · More Info

I'm not sure if this is a good suggestion or not but I wonder if you should have a third sink on the coffee bar and move the second DW there to be used for mugs, breakfast dishes,whatever you'll keep in the butlers pantry and any prep tools you load in the DW.

Don't you have any pictures of your last kitchen you can share with us? I'm curious how the range wall turned out.

So you want a DW on the island because "the cleanup sink feels 5 min away". I agree - it is a long haul from one end of this kitchen to the other - and an even longer haul to any eating area other than the island. I think I would try to make things a little more compact.

I'm curious - what is the room between the pantry and the garage? Why the powder room in the living room, when you have one across from the elevator? It looks like a laundry room tucked behind the mudroom - do you also have a laundry room near the bedrooms (presumably upstairs?)

Palimpsest, That was one of my original questions, since the sink is the prep space, how much counter is still needed. Actually, we have the Stages sink now and don't use it like counter, so that may answer my own question, but the shelf is fixed and the cutting board is too big for the DW, so I think we would use the Galley differently.

Sena, The last kitchen build still has a couple loose ends just getting wrapped up, and I want to take better pics for a reveal, but just sent you a PM for a sneak peak. Thanks for all your help with that kitchen. You helped make it great!

Ann, The room behind the pantry is a staff bedroom and the bath there is to service that room. The powder in the family room is what serves this side of the home. Yes, there is another laundry room upstairs for the bedrooms.

This version incorporates several of the suggestions made so far, and makes a slightly larger landing area on the island. Dishwasher moved from island to cleanup sink, and a third dishwasher and sink added to coffee bar.

Here are some specific questions:

1. Since the Galley sink was designed to be prepped on top of, will the 42" between that sink and the cooktop be sufficient counter space, and double as enough landing space for both the ovens and refrigerator?

2. In the coffee area to the left, should the dishwasher and sink be flipped to move the sink to the corner?

Have you considered swapping the coffee bar and clean up area? That way your cleanup/dish storage is significantly closer to the dining room and butler's pantry.

Personally, I think 3 dishwashers in one room is excessive. I wouldn't put one in the coffee bar.

My all-fridge and all-freezer can't be reversed, and the freezer is to the left of the fridge. I'm not sure if all brands are like that, but it's something to consider.

Also, keep in mind what's that back wall will look like, visually. If you do stainless fridge/freezer columns, it will feel off-balanced. If you do paneled, it will also feel off-balanced. And if one oven cabinet has a microwave, and one has just the oven, it will feel off-balanced. I'm not saying symmetry is the most important thing, but it's something to consider since this is the wall that will be the focal point of the kitchen.

Last thing: In order to access the island storage, particularly with a lowered countertop, you'll basically have to get on your hands and knees. You will also have to think about how you're supporting your countertop, and what you visually want for decoration there: posts, corbels, etc. It might not be worth it to try to store things there.

Gennifer,

I really think the cleanup sink belongs on the exterior wall just to be near a window.

I like your advice to remove the DW from the coffee area.

I confirmed that the doors on the all-fridge & all-freezer are reversible.

TJ

Can you check your measurements? Looks like you have a 26' 9" room in the layouts and the island is longer than 13'. Also the back wall of tall cabs/fridge plus the wall on each side take up more than 14' if you want 4' on each side.

As I understand from Galley web page you'll need 5' of cabs for the Galley no 5. I think an additional 2' b/w the sink and the cooktop would be enough unless you prep very large amounts of food first and then start cooking. I usually prep and do some cooking at the same time so for me any prep area wider than 4' would make things harder not easier. Assuming that you use the first 18" on the left for things waiting to be washed and the second 18" as sink you'd have 48" to the cooktop plus a depth of 24+15.

As to landing space for fridge/ovens, would you consider an ss pull out cutting board under one of the ovens? For the oven on cleanup side I think that counter can be used for landing.

I am not good with photoshop, but...

Would you consider moving the fridge and freezer to the coffee bar area closest to the pantry? That may make it more accessible to everyone (drinks / ice, etc) It reduces the coffee area, but that is (IMO) overly generous as it is and not really useful for daily cooking activities.

That would free up your appliance wall for an oven at each end, and move the induction top to the middle with copious landing and secondary prep on either side of the induction (and not having a hood dangling over the island)

I think it will be a long walk into the pantry to get things and if you gave yourself landing space on the wall, you could build in a garage door so that you could pass through items from the pantry without the spiral walk to get something.

Keep both dishwashers flanking the cleanup sink and then you can not have your zones all over the place and you don't have too many places to check to see where you put that particular utensil....

I think that you then only have one item in the island - that huge sink. And it allows more social area and flat space on the island.

Sena, The original floorplan had the kitchen at 26'9" wide, but a later revision changed it to 26'0". My drawing may not reflect that change yet.

Jannicone, I am open to any ideas so I would consider moving the fridge/freezer to the left wall, but I marked off the dimensions on my floor now and that location feels really far and inconvenient to the island.

I know the island cooktop is one of those things that brings up a lot of debate on both sides, but I really think it works well in this space....or at least I hope so!

Is your floor plan for adjacent rooms set? The big question I'd have is if you really want both eating areas to be that far from kitchen -- it looks like it's a 30+ foot walk from the cleanup sink to the breakfast area, and 50+ feet to the dining room. There no way I'd want to do either in a daily basis, hauling plates back and forth -- that seems like it would get old awfully quick. I'd wonder if there's a way to get at least the breakfast area much closer to the kitchen itself.

Matt, the architect intentionally spread out the home because of the width of the lot and due to the dimensions required by some of the upstairs rooms. The breakfast table is roughly 30' away, but it's 20' away in our current home and it feels normal. Maybe the extra exercise will be good for me!

I'm going to be using a similar sink. I want it closer to the stovetop, though, for dumping stuff easier, so I put my dishwasher on the other side of the trash--though I still might flip the two.

My biggest quibble is that the dishes aren't near either sink. Nor are they near the coffee/breakfast bar.

Overall, awesome!

I've been trying to keep a more open mind and have a couple new options.

Option A moves the cleanup area much closer to where the mess happens, but moves it away from the window where you typically find the big sink

Option B spreads everything out and give more real estate on the island, but might be too much exercise to actually use this kitchen.

Feedback please?

I personally prefer B. Your cooktop is opposite your prep space and your fridge is still close enough to grab stuff. Your cleanup sink is out of the main space. Most importantly, your cooktop is off the island. Lastly, each area is being used. In A, that long expanse of counter would just be a junk collector or decorative space.

I agree.

I like the layout in B, but it is pretty stretched out (recognizing it's similar to what I suggested above...playing devil's advocate!). It's like 13' from the prep sink to fridge or cooktop to fridge, right?

I kind of want to put the fridge on the cooktop wall in layout B...but you've got a big fridge/freezer. Hmm...will think on it more.

B allows the fridge to be accessed by the rest of the household without entering the prep / work zone. I worry that Option A will have you end up with that lovely window area and counter space that doesn't really get used because it's without a clear function.

I agree it does make sense to have the cleanup sink at the window. Just was trying to minimize the long walk...

If I definitely move the sink there, then moving the refrigerator to behind the island feels right, which is basically the layout I started this thread with!

I think you just killed your prep space again - but you seem drawn to that layout of 2 things in the island.

Your biggest expanse of uninterrupted counter is around that corner tucked by the pantry - you will likely rarely use. (I made cookies last night and I COULD see it for your mixer and cookie sheets / cooling racks...)

The most valuable real estate you have there is now that (relatively) small space between the sink and the cooktop which (if I go back to your original layout) is over a 42" drawer base. Having spices and a spoonrest and some ingredients to the left of the cooktop, and then a cutting board to the right of the sink, and I feel like you are crowding yourself in there already.

it seems like you are taking a generous kitchen and cramming all the working pieces together resulting in a constraint that you really shouldn't have to deal with!

I still like B the best, with the ovens on the wall with the fridge (where you had the coffee bar, previously.)

Have you decided to remove the desk area?

The consensus does appear to be B, but I'm not sure why C wouldn't be a more efficient layout, with the cooktop right next to the prep sink, you wouldn't have to turn around and cross the aisle with raw, messy, or wet food. You could go right from the cutting board, shuffle a step and into the pan.

The fridge could still go off to the side, but if you didnt have the cooktop in that wall, then behind you is closer, and then it makes sense to have that whole wall as tall built in cabinets (for looks).

What if I use a slightly smaller sink (Galley 4 which is 44") and stretch the island to a full 14'. Then with a 36" cooktop, there is 7'4" of counter left. I could do 24-27" on each end, 32-36" in between. Wouldn't that be enough room to solve the concerns?

My sketch doesn't show the chair, but yes, the desk area is going to remain. Just a spot to have a recipe computer and pay some bills, and I don't see any other good use for that corner.

People have different priorities, preferences, tastes.

As far as I can see you're fine with a hood over the island and you like the look of wall of tall cabs on the back wall.

You have room for a 13' 6"-13' 9" island and assuming that you use 5.5' for the cooktop and a cab next to the aisle you're still left with 8', adequate for a sink and prep space imo. But I repeat my suggestion to have a hidden shelf/counter on the back wall for landing for fridge/ovens so others using the fridge/mw etc won't interrupt you and you can have all available space in the island for prep and cooking.

Sena, If I did that full back wall I don't think I could work in much landing space, but I understand why it would be a benefit.

I'm not crazy about the colors here, but I just found this which was very similar to the Option B, except with moving the ovens to the side wall. This kitchen doesn't use any uppers on that back wall which is pretty interesting.

This could be Option B+.

Range on the back wall with either no uppers or open shelves.

Ovens & Fridge on side wall, will all tall cabinets.

Microwave in side wall or at one end of range wall.

Cleanup sink on exterior wall.

Island wide open for 56" prep sink and 4'-3" of space on each side.

Biggest drawback is everything will be fairly spread out.

thoughts?

OK, So, I'm not one of the real gurus here, so take this for what its worth. LOL

I wanted to get the cook-top to the exterior wall. And I wanted to get the cleanup and dish area to the bottom since both dining areas are in that direction.

I put the cook-top on top flanked by under-counter ovens. The windows could be enlarged and adjusted to make the cook-top centered (in intended to do this, but forgot, LOL). There is a sink over there for prep.

Sink and DW on the island for cookware cleanup.

Fridge and Freezer in the bank of full height cabs.

Cleanup for dishes, etc closer to the the dining areas.

Again, I'm not one of the gurus, but I thought it was out of the box thinking, and I was bored and had a glass of wine. :) Feel free to tear it apart :)

Doc, thanks for the input, that is a very interesting layout. I don't think I've seen under counter ovens before but will check them out!

Based on the consensus that B was the preferred layout. I fleshed it out a little further and came up with the following. Is this looking good yet? And like the most efficient layout to utilize all the space?

Much better. What I don't like is your fridge/freezer wall yet and the reason is because your fridge has no landing area. When you load/unload groceries or take items out of the fridge to cook, where will you put them? Otherwise I think it's looking good.

How wide is your space between your island and your cooktop wall? I personally wouldn't go over 5' and most people feel more comfortable around 4'.

Also I'd make the pantry door a pocket door to give you extra space inside. Most of the time you can keep the pantry open.

Yes I would probably make the aisle from island to cooktop 48" so not as far from the sink to cooktop.

I would also put countertop and landing area on the wall with the fridge/ovens--I don't really see the aesthetic preference for a wall of only tall cabinets. Technically the island and cooktop wall can be your landing area, but I would want it closer since you have the space.

From a practical standpoint I think I would put the drinking glasses elsewhere and maybe you don't need a tall pantry cabinet outside the pantry and you could create a set down niche without those two tall cabinets and a little juggling.

I am not sure I would like a glass refrigerator right next to the family room given what the inside of most refrigerators end up looking like. It's not going to be a row of matched Pellegrino bottles or a rows of matching storage containers like they are always staged. Plus the light is out. I think they usually look kind of depressing.

Cpartist, yes, the fridge landing would have to be the island, maybe not ideal, but I think I prefer that over doing a counter on the fridge wall. I'm going to do 54" between the island and cooktop, we have this same spacing on our current island and it's comfortable.

But, I LOVE the idea of the pocket door in the pantry. Didn't think of that, and it's a great idea. Thanks!

Caligirl, my asthetic objection is that the fridge wall is maybe a little over 11'. By the time I put 6' of refrigeration and freezer, and the oven cabinet and spacers, there will only be 2' or so left and to put a countertop in there with those masses surrounding it makes it seem like a cave to me, even with good lighting. I think I'd rather just use the island across, but I do appreciate your advice and will keep it in mind.

Palimpsest, Where would you put the glasses?

LOL on the matched bottles in the fridge. We do have a glass door fridge now, and it actually looks good even when the stuff inside is disorganized (as it always is, I'm not that OCD)

How about putting a pull out shelf on the wall next to the fridge for putting groceries, etc down. Or what I believe avatarwalt did in their kitchen which was to have a lower drawer with a pull out shelf so groceries could be put down on the open drawer with the shelf.

54" between island and cooktop is fine. I wouldn't want it further.

Does anyone have an opinion on the best location for dishes, glassware & silverware storage in this latest version?

Does anyone have any advise where to store dishes and glasses is this most recent layout?