I'm very late to this discussion, but I have a couple of things to add. "I've never heard of any verified inter-sectional oak hybrids." Apparently the hybrid Quercus x kewensis is a good hybrid between the section Cerris, Q. cerris and the section Lobatae (Red Oaks), Q. wislizenii. That's the only known cross sectional hybrid Oak I know of which has any merit of being true. Several Oak experts have vouched for it being a good hybrid. Also, most all recent studies particularly involving Oaks and Oak pollen show that the vast majority of "live" pollen is dispersed within a few hundred meters of the parent tree. With virtually none being involved in the parentage of acorns produced on Oaks further away from the pollen producing tree than this(a couple hundred meters). So it's extremely unlikely that modern long distance pollen drift is involved in any way in these hybrid Oaks. There's much more strong evidence that past warmer climates(lasting for at least several hundreds of years, if not a few thousand years) accounted for both species of Oaks to be growing in close proximity, but subsequent colder climates, such as now(when compared to the past warmer climates) driving one of the species extinct in the local area, but hybrids remained. Of course, these hybrids aren't anywhere near 5,000 to 7,000 years old, but they did reproduce and left Oaks that are of mixed or hybrid ancestry. I'm sure that many of these initial F1 hybrids back crossed with one of the initial parents as well as cross pollinated each other and so on down through the generations, thus accounting for the great amount of variability in the Oaks we see today in these areas. I was one who brought this article up to one of the Oak e-discussion groups, mostly because I'd never heard of any claims of 5,000 to 7,000 year old Oaks before and thought it to be erroneous, which others concurred was the case.

Tom--and the rest of my advisers here: I forgot to mention that I have some hickories. I have two shellbark, pignut, mockernut, and shagbark. I have two shellbark because I planted the first one on a bit of a ridge where the soil is more shallow, I subsequently read that shellbark hickory is generally a bottomland species. In the spring the buds get very large, and just before and after break, the bud scales, or whatever they are called, grow and become red, so the tree seems to be covered with flowers--beautiful. I have some hickory on my timberland, and one shagbark, especially, is absolutely gorgeous. Looking at this tree, one could imagine it is the most beautiful tree in the world. One problem here is they grow very, very slowly. I also have 2 hiccan hybrids, which are supposed to grow extremely fast, but for me they are almost not growing, even after 5 years, and I have three pecans, also of the genus Carya, of course. They are also growing very slow in my environment here. I love hickories, but here--what's the old saying? "I should live so long!" I did some more research on American beech--based on what I can find out, maybe my initial idea of not bothering with it here is correct. They really, really don't like droughts, and don't like exposed sites. I never, never see any in the woods around here, and I am not sure I can point to a single one in Winchester. Beautiful trees, but I am afraid not for here. Well, I am still looking for ideas. I know it is a sin in the minds of many in these forums, but I may just prune up a Norway spruce or two for shade trees, and/or white pine. But so far the oaks are the best I have. I mentioned the white and swamp white oaks, but the two largest are Shummard oaks--they thrive here. Oh, and I have cottonwoods. They are not spreading yet, so not much shade. Where I grew up--from age 5 to 15, the primary tree for shade and general enjoyment was a cottonwood. Gorgeous!! I have a Siouxland cultivar of eastern cottonwood. In the ground 5 years, 20 feet tall, and looking like it may be the star of all the 120 or so kinds of trees I have here!! Wonderful large leaves, rich green, glossy, and so far this tree is acting like it is more drought resistant than my other cottonwoods. --spruce

I have an 'Ooti' seedling, purchased from OIKOS, back around '96 - listed at that time as a hybrid of Q.macrocarpaXroburXvirginiana - but I'm more inclined to think muehlenbergii is the third species in the mix than virginiana; or, as this is an open-pollenated seedling, it might have had a Q.muehlenbergii pollen parent. I see nothing in foliage or acorn morphology to support virginiana anywhere in its heritage. Each flush of new growth has a very pleasing bronze/copper color that persists for quite some time, until leaves reach full size, at which time they green up; fall color is the typical yellow-brown of macrocarpa and muehlenbergii. Hybridization of the white oaks, particularly in arboretum or mixed-species 'orchard' plantings can be rampant. I bought and purchased 8 or 10 BurEnglish seedlings in the mid-90s; have grafted most of them over to the original 'McDaniel' macrocarpaXrobur selection, but one still has several branches below the graft - foliage on these 'understock' branches leaves no doubt that the pollen parent of that particular acorn was probably Q.gambelli or possibly Q.turbinella.

"I know about Sheffield's and Schumacher, are there others?" Those are the big two for retail tree seeds, but there are a few other sources. J. L. Hudson has some interesting stuff including some tree seeds. The Angelgrove Tree Seed Company, Plant World Seeds, Prairie Moon Nursery, Gardens North, SparkleberrySprings, and The Fragrant Path offer smaller selections of woody plant seeds. Sierra Seed Supply offers some interesting stuff from their area. Oikos Tree Crops periodically offers a few types of seeds, including many oaks. "I worry about places like Sheffield's because sometimes, the seeds are shown as being a previous crop year, and I know that many tree seeds, Oaks included, really don't store that well, so I question the viability." When stored properly, most seeds can last for a pretty long period. Sometimes Sheffield's does have some very old seeds, but, for the most part, I'd say your concerns are unfounded. Sheffield's has the ability and knowledge to stores seeds under very specific and proper conditions.