I love the soffit Beth posted as a do not do. :) It fits with a certain style of kitchen, and that's the style. Midcentury vintage charm.

It should be quite cheap to remove it. Really negligible compared to the other expenses. The taller cabinets will look nicer and open up storage a little bit.

Generally a soffit is deeper than your cabinets, like in the photo you don't like. In order to get the added-filler look like in the finished soffit photo you posted you'll need to get custom depth cabinets or modify your current soffit. Instead of going to those expenses I would remove the soffit.

Shelves are adjustable and you don't have to use every single shelf if you don't need to! I actually ordered an extra shelf for each cabinet so I wouldn't have to stack things. Tall items? Most are either in the cabinet above my refrigerator or in a drawer.

Beth...you said you don't like the look of an unfinished soffit and that you prefer one that's finished with crown molding (your second picture above)...so don't forget to factor in the cost of all that extra molding. You may need 3-piece molding for a truly finished look...like this, only with a much taller filler piece ("Stock-S"):

Yes, thick crown molding can cost as much as the cabinets themselves. She won't need so much expensive molding if she removes the soffit and gets taller cabinets. My moldings are 3" tall to allow for taller cabinets, and I love how they look.

I didn't remove the soffit - in fact I had the soffit extended. I have no place nearby to keep a step ladder and am getting to the age where I don't like using one. It is much easier for me to go to the basement for the few items that don't fit in my cabinets. I had the cabinets slightly lowered and can reach even items on the top shelf of every cabinet.

MJ&Co. thanks a lot. I really appreciate the numbers and variables. Very helpful!

faftris, I too am wondering if your shelves are not adjustable? and thank you. :)

aloha, thanks for the link. I will take a look at that later on. I am not 100% certain on the cabs, but it will most likely be stained. And yes, does the expense justify it? Cuz there's already a lot goin on.

friedajune, my ceiling is 8 ft. I put the stuff you speak of different places, like closets, basement, etc., since I don't have that extra space at the moment. ;) I have read cabs to ceiling make the kitchen look bigger... I am 5'4" and I can reach the front of my top shelves. I rarely have to get a step ladder right now. Will take a look at the sl's, thank you. :)

Fori, that's only one in a million pics that I chose. lol There's lots of different styles. ;)

traci, my cabs and soffit are same depth.

buehl, you raise a good point. I had actually thought about the expense of the molding.

My GC is coming over tomorrow and we will go over the expense of keeping versus not. Thanks for all your opinions, I do appreciate them. And right now, it does seem most think I should take the cabs to the top.

1. oasis, good for you. That IS one of my thoughts, I'm only getting older. and seriously, walking down a few steps is hardly a big deal. Besides, it's exercise for us old people. ;)

I'm not totally against soffits, in fact I had to add a shallow one in my new Kitchen to avoid having to move the waste drain pipe from the second floor.

However, I do agree with you about the look of finished/unfinished full soffits. I don't know what the cost difference is b/w keeping the soffit + extra molding vs removal of the soffit + cabinets in your case. It it were me and the cost was only 1 or 2 thousand dollars, I'd probably go with the soffit removal + cabinets -- both for looks and functionality (extra storage). Maybe you cannot easily reach the upper cabinets, but if you don't have them you can never use them even for seldom-used items. I'd rather have the option for potential extra storage than not.

In the end, it's up to you. Good luck!

"...Besides, it's exercise for us old people. ;)"

Unless you have arthritic knees or other issues that make stairs difficult. (Issues that you don't plan on having -- no one plans to have problems with stairs, etc.)

Until my recent knee replacement due to an injury, stairs were a nightmare for me. They're still difficult, but I'm getting there! However, I've noticed increased arthritic pain in my other knee now, especially going down the stairs!

Yes, my shelves are adjustable. But when you do the math, a 36 inch cabinet can have only four 9 inch spaces. Less than 9, actually, because you have to factor in the space taken up by the shelf itself. If you make one an 11" or 12", you wind up with narrower ones for the others. There is not much that you can stand up in a shelf like that, considering that a box of pasta is 7 inches . I adjusted two upper cabinets, but not all. It works okay, I've just had to adjust my shopping habits. My motto has always been "If it doesn't rot, buy a lot", but I've had to adjust.

Beth09, if you do away with the soffit, please ask your GC for 39" cabinets. People automatically choose 36" height, not aware that 39" is available. You would only then need a narrow crown molding, so the molding shouldn't cost too much. You would be surprised at how much a difference makes from 36" to 39", in cabinet storage, and in appearance.

Just as an FYI, here is the standards of how the measurement from the floor should go. Some people vary these, but these are the most typical:

Base cabinets + counter = 36" from the floor

Space between counter and bottom of upper cabinets = 18"

8' ceiling (96") - 36" - 18" means you have 42" left. You can use the 42" for 39" cabinets plus 3" molding. Alternatively, you can do 36" cabinets plus 6" molding.

Regarding very small/shallow crown molding...only do that if you are absolutely certain your ceiling height is exactly the same throughout your space -- that's very rare!

The function of crown molding is not just to "finish" off your cabinets. It also hides imperfections such as uneven ceiling heights.

Most homes do not have perfectly even ceiling heights (floor-to-ceiling measurement). One cause is due to settling over the years.

With 2- or 3-piece molding, the top piece is the same throughout the Kitchen, as is the bottom if you have 3-piece (like the one above). It's the middle piece, the filler, that varies. The filler piece is cut to fit the space b/w the top and bottom molding (or top molding and the top of the cabinet). So, if your ceiling height is 1" taller in one place, the filler piece will be 1" taller in that location. Because the top and bottom moldings are the same, the molding will look perfectly aligned throughout the Kitchen -- no gaps where the ceiling height is taller.

The reason you do it this way is that the top and bottom moldings have more detail and any differences in height would be very noticeable. However, the filler piece is a plain piece of wood and the height variations are not noticeable.

"... But when you do the math, a 36 inch cabinet can have only four 9 inch spaces. Less than 9, actually, because you have to factor in the space taken up by the shelf itself. If you make one an 11" or 12", you wind up with narrower ones for the others. ..."

So, remove a shelf to accommodate taller items (or put them in deep drawers). Or transfer them to air-tight containers (like the shorter Tupperware pantry containers).

Actually, shorter spaces work better for plates, saucers, etc., unless you have a lot of each, that is. Here's an inspiration picture I used for my cabinets and the reason I ordered extra shelves!

From JamesK

Examples from my Kitchen:

.

buehl, I appreciate your thoughts. Hopefully tomorrow I can come back with an estimate on all this. It would be nice if the difference was radical and the decision could be made for me. However, I do not expect to be so lucky. :) And thanks a lot for explaining about the molding. Gosh, my head's starting to hurt with all this stuff to think about! lol

Miranda, thanks for the heads up about the 39 inch cabs. I tell ya what, if I decide to remove the soffit I'll get the bigger cabs, if you'll pay for those extra 3 inches. Jus kiddin. ;)

We had soffits (I"m told they are called furdowns) and just removed them. I live in Oregon and apparently many of the older house ceilings here have plaster which complicated things. When they put them in during the original building they were a part of the ceiling meaning, once it came down we had a view right into our attic from the kitchen for a day or two. We had to patch, float, and texture the ceiling after but think it was worth it as I love my taller cabs!

Yes, I have no problems with dishes and glasses, although I really wonder why I have so many mugs. Our ceiling height didn't allow for 39" cabinets, so we were stuck. My issue is with food items that vary in height and shape too much. Even the bottom drawers can accommodate only an 8 3/4" item. I had a walk-in pantry in my house. Spoiled me. Now I'm in a condo with much less space, so I'm making do.

Pamela, interesting. I too have plaster walls and ceiling. They are in such bad shape, we have to either have them skimmed, or plastered over. So I guess if that would happen here, we'll already be somewhat prepared! :/

Thank you for posting the pics, it's so nice to see a real life before and after. They look great!!

Anglophilia, my ceilings are also 8 ft. Thank you also for the pics. It certainly does make a statement, doesn't it?! Of course the new ones look better. ;)

Anglophilia, I was looking at your pics again, and one, I think you did a fantastic job of coordinating all your white/light colors. That is hard to do but your kitchen looks great! But I am really posting about the island I see part of in there. Your space looks like it's maybe smaller than mine. How much clearance do you have around it? I'm planing on a small island on casters.

Thank you, Beth, for your kind words! I'm very pleased with my kitchen and a year later, still get a thrill every time I walk into it. I'd never before had a new kitchen! Over the years and with various kitchens, I've learned to "keep it simple" as a kitchen already has SO much going on in it - all those appliances, openings - you name it - it's just a LOT! Each time I've done something to this kitchen (never before a full gut), I've gotten more minimalist (something that is very against my nature!) and realized that I wanted a serene kitchen - one that is very calm.

Beth, I'm not sure but it is plenty of room. I'll measure it when I go back upstairs (I'm in the basement). The room is 11 ft wide. The island cart is only 17" wide but oh my, it is SO useful as a landing zone! I got it at Ikea and had the base painted so it would "disappear". It is just the best cart ever and it's cheap - I think it's now $109 - was only $99 when I got it. I love that it has two drawers that open from either side - VERY useful. I needed those drawers and so many kitchen cart don't have any. Why did I need them? One holds a dog leash, bandaids and other "stuff" that I need near at hand; the other holds ever product manual for everything in the entire house. Very handy to have it right at hand, and not in a basement file cabinet...somewhere.

Over time, we all learn what works for us and is important to us. I think a kitchen is very much like a woman's handbag or wallet. NO ONE can choose that but YOU! One likes big, one likes small - everyone organizes it differently.

I'm very please with my kitchen and year later, still get a thrill every time I walk into it.

That's what I want to end up with! Or as someone else put it, "Sometimes I still walk in a do a little happy dance". :) I've never had a new kitchen either. This has been a long time coming.

I am of the keep it simple camp also, and not just in the kitchen.

I can imagine how helpful the cart must be! I only have about the size of your one L in the pic. That's it. And I'm actually losing the landing space on top of the portable (now semi stationary) DW. So I REALLY need a small island. I am weighing my options, and will price out a 36 in. cab versus what I can buy already made.

I love that yours has drawers that open from both sides, how cool! I had actually thought to myself it would be nice to have doors that did that. I really want part of it to have a tilt out door for garbage. I am getting that thing off my kitchen floor if it kills me. I am planning on putting a reverse osmosis unit under the sink, so not sure it can also go in there AND let me store cleaning stuff and what not.

I love your purse analogy! So true. ;)

I have 39" uppers, and the difference in usable storage (compared to the old 30") is remarkable! Like Buehl, I ordered extra shelves for every upper. If you arrange like-height things on a shelf, you can make excellent use of space without having wasted space above. In my pic below, the cups don't get as much space as the glasses - because they don't need it.

I'm only 5'4, so having extra shelves allows me to put more things down low where I can reach. I have a little folding step stool that fits easily under the sink. With that, I can reach everything.

I used to have a shelving unit in the basement for bulk purchases. Without changing the footprint, I use the space in my new kitchen so much more efficiently that now I can keep everything IN the kitchen. It's wonderful!

If you are doing a cottage or a traditional kitchen, you can trim the soffit out with beadboard. I have several photos in my Ideabook that's labeled "misc." and they are really lovely.

Ann, I have gone through your kitchen more than once, taking note of things. I am definitely jotting down to order more shelves. Thanks! (from another 5'4"er)

May, it will be more traditional. I will take a look, thank you!

Well, the GC did not make it over today, so I have no news. Shooting for Thursday.

That's what I want to end up with! Or as someone else put it, "Sometimes I still walk in a do a little happy dance". :) I've never had a new kitchen either. This has been a long time coming.

11 years ago, GW helped me plan the kitchen in the house we built. We sold that house this spring--and I never stopped loving my kitchen. It still made me happy.

Wow. You all must have done a great job! Do you have a link to it?

Here are the beadboard soffit photos I mentioned. I see what happened. The misc Ideabook is mistakenly set to private. I knew my kitchens Ideabook was but now I'm finding out the misc. book is too. I don't know how to set them as viewable--I can't find a button to click to change it.

Transitional Kitchen · More Info

White kitchen · More Info

Kitchen · More Info

I like this with the soffit and ceiling done in wide boards.

Halpert at the Vineyard · More Info

All those kitchens in Mayflowers' photos have high ceilings, 9' or higher. With an 8' ceiling, not sure can carry off the bulk added by the beadboard soffit. If the OP's soffit isn't very tall, it might look odd to have beadboard applied to it.

Thanks mayflowers. :) I like the look.

friedajune, my soffit is 12 in., tall.... I don't know if it would "work" or not.

I'm 5'4" also. We gutted our kitchen with 8' ceilings and removed the soffits. It was a long time coming (say 30 years in this house). It should have been done years ago!! There was HVAC ducts for our second story in the soffits. The contractors were ingenuis at changing the ducting. It was a marvelous change for my kitchen. It not only increased storage without increasing the footprint but also made the 8' ceilings feel higher. It was a difficult decision due to finances but both my husband and I agree it was more than worth it! My only regret is that I didn't fork over the extra dollars ($400 at the time) to have a toe kick drawer put in for my step stool. It is stored in the laundry room. Even with having to go get the step stool In another room, I would still remove soffits. Good luck to you in the decisions.

I couldn't wait for those blasted soffits to come out! I'd hated them for 32 years. It had become an obsession with me - "I WILL outlive those bloody soffits!", and I have!

beth09, my house and kitchen pictures are still available from our sale: Beth's house

Our next kitchen will be an L with an island--but probably cherry cabinets again!

tea4all, I'm so glad you chimed in! I have not only saved a pic from your kitchen, I printed it out for inspiration. There is such a warm, comfortable softness about your cabs and the incredible color of them, along with your backsplash and counter. It just makes me feel serene and content when I look at that picture. (ok, I'll stop gushing now lol. But you should know, I never follow trends or copy someone else's style, so it really IS a compliment!) ;)

I have a place I can hang a step stool that is very close. I love the idea of a toe kick drawer, but there's other things I want more so I need to make concessions.

My kitchen is going to end up being about 6 months shy of 30 years also in this house. I can't wait!!

beth3, thank you for the link! I will wait til later to browse through it. :)

Well, I think with you all chiming in with those above, I am pretty convinced to do this. Contractor should be here shortly, we'll see what he says about it all. And again, thanks for everyone's input!

Thank you beth09 for your kind words! It is heartwarming to know someone feels warm serene vibes from my kitchen. I wanted calm warm and serene as aesthetic goals. The increased storage and improved functionality are like night and day difference from the old kitchen. I am so grateful and blessed.

Hang in there throughout all the ups and downs of remodeling! Gardenweb kitchen forum is a lifesaver.

Ok, GC came yesterday and spent 3 hours with me. We have options.

1. I can remove the wall between what was a small broom closet in kitchen that I had hubby put shelves in for some food storage and a couple larger appliances, and one of two coat closets in entrance foyer to make a nice size little pantry. This would allow storage of all food items/canned goods, plus some more appliances, which frees up the small amount of cabinet space for essentials. However, this does not allow foot print to change much due to all the doorways/windows/layout.

2. The basement stairs are behind a wall that runs through most of the length of my kitchen. He proposed switching the steps around. In doing so, it frees up a good amount of wasted space at the top of the stairs right now. (Hubby actually proposed this possibility a couple years ago, but I thought it sounded really drastic and expensive) In doing this, I would gain an area across from work area of about 5-5 1/2 feet. This would allow for the refrigerator to be moved to the new area with a tall pantry. This in turn would allow more counter and cabinet space, and allow stove to go where it can't right now because frig is on one end and ductwork for cold air return is on other with too tight a space in between. He prefers this idea, just because he feels like if we're going to all this trouble and expense, it gets me much more of a "wow" factor. I would have to agree.

Either way, I will have a small, 2x3 island on casters.

So, in light of either of these options, does anyone who voted to remove the soffits change their mind? Because either option affords me more storage, at a lower level.

As far as cost of removing soffit and running cabs up vs. not, there's no way to truly tell til I start getting bids. He will charge me 300.00 to remove the soffit, barring any unforeseen major problems. He does not "think" that is going to happen, but of course you don't know till we get in there. So the real cost will be in the extra cab space/molding.

As far as switching the steps cost, he has stated it will not run more than 2000.00 (could run less), using existing steps to cut down cost. Will require a good bit of work. I think it sounds fair, as do some friends I have run it across.

Of course, one thing to consider with the soffit, is that if I went with a cab deeper than 12 inches, it would look off and then we would definitely have to remove them. But since the platters I use on a regular basis fit in there now, I guess I don't foresee getting larger....

He said I could go up to 42 inch cabs, but then would lose a bit between cabs and counter, which I don't want.

However, if I don't remove the soffit on the one side, and decide to switch steps, then what would I do about the other side with frig and pantry? I suppose if pantry went up to top, I would just have something above frig? Going with counter depth, so it may be taller...

Off topic, he would charge 300.00 for tear out of cabs, with removal. Considering he looked the cabs over and said they were custom built, and all in one piece on the long wall, nailed in, with solid sheet of plywood back, it won't be pretty getting them out. I didn't think that price sounded bad either. Anybody have an opinion on that, cuz I am new at all this. :)

I think that covers it! Except to say, I REALLY like my GC. He is very nice, calm, cool, collected, seems well experienced and is not pushy at all. It's ultimately whatever I want.

beth3, you had a beautiful home and a beautiful kitchen!

He does not "think" that is going to happen, but of course you don't know till we get in there

Make a small hole in each one and take a look inside with a flashlight.

Beth, will the cost to re-dry wall the ceiling be part of the overall construction cost? Only $300 to remove sounds very affordable, but it is the fixing the ceiling that obviously would cost more. Would he patch or rehang all the ceiling drywall? We have soffits and I hate them, so I am curious what all this entails and the final cost to put the ceiling back together.

writersblock, that's an idea. However, if I decide I want to remove them, I will do it no matter what is in there. It's not like I'm saying, I'll only do it if it won't cost anymore. Yanno?

mobuddy, the ceiling fix will be included in the overall cost. I'm not sure exactly what it will run, but he's being so reasonable on everything else, I'm not worried about it costing a ton.

With all you've said, I think no-soffit and 39" cabinets would be perfect. Your kitchen will look lovely. And it's true, if you are going to go to all this trouble and cost (and stress) for your kitchen, you should have a result that is the most beautiful and will provide you with the most storage.

As has been mentioned, crown molding can be expensive. Hard to know at this point, but it may be that 39" cabinets with small molding, will be less expensive than 36" cabinets with 6" of molding. Something for you to explore and price-compare.

Ix-nay on the 42" cabinets suggestion. A 3" loss of space between your counters and bottom of your upper cabinets will actually be significant. It will not allow you to store toaster, coffee maker, etc. under the cabinets. And, worse, it will have a cramped aesthetic to it.

Is it possible to take the bulkheads/soffits out and replace the 12" deep cabs with 15" deep uppers to avoid A lot of ceiling repair? I would have done that in my current renovation except my bulkheads were deeper than 15 inches.

We did 42" uppers in our last kitchen, but 39" in our current one. We found that while the 42" uppers fit fine, we couldn't finish the the 1/2-1" gap between the cabs and the ceiling. The look isn't terrible, but I just know the dust bunnies are reproducing like mad up there. :-, This time we went with 39" + crown molding. Something to think about for others making that choice.

42"

39"

Friedajune, I think you're right about the 39 inchers (and no soffit) being the way to go. I will however ask to see prices on both sizes. And no, I was not about to lose any space in between. As it is now, my Cuisinart coffee maker (now deceased) took up a lot of room, it would have either been tight or not fit with the 42's.

rantontoo, I am not sure. I could ask my GC. Maybe it won't be that bad....

suzanne, thank you so much for posting the pics, and mentioning the slight problem the 42's could present. lol@dust bunnies. ;) Your first cabs were gorgeous! I am such a dark wood lover. But your new kitchen and cabs are lovely as well. That counter is yummy! It's interesting you went from dark to light. Mind sharing your reason for that? The reason I ask, as I said, I adore darker wood cabs, but struggle slightly with if I should go that route in my kitchen that isn't overly light....

I agree with everyone that you should remove the soffit. My last kitchen had a soffit which we removed, and we discovered a small plumbing pipe up by the ceiling in one section. We notched the back of two of the upper cabinets so that we didn't have to move the pipe. The cabinets went up to the ceiling. No one was the wiser about the notches and the pipe unless you opened that upper cabinet and saw it, but if anyone did, shrug. Idk if you can do that with a larger pipe in the way, but for that pipe it worked great. That small kitchen seemed to double in size once the soffits were removed, and also just looked more current.

I think Buehl made a good point up above that crown molding can mask an uneven ceiling. As I understand it, pretty much everyone's kitchen ceiling is going to be uneven. I don't agree that it necessitates a thick crown molding to mask that. In that previous kitchen I had, which was so small, and had an uneven ceiling. We didn't have room, and also didn't like the look of, a thick crown molding. So it's all about a good contractor who has expertise. My contractor seemed to have no problem with the uneven ceiling and a 3" crown molding. If the OP prefers a thicker crown molding, then it will be that much easier for the installer. I just wanted to mention my experience.

MMiller, thank you for commenting on your experience. I love all these tid bits. Certainly, if it we would have any plumbing, and it would allow, doing what you did would be way easier/less costly. I will file that away for future reference.

Also, I have thought very little about the size of crown molding I would use, but the fleeting thought I had given it, was to go simple and small. Of course I will reserve final judgement til the cabs are picked out. But I appreciate your thoughts!

Beth, the move from dark cabinets to light was entirely practical. Our old house had a long southern exposure, which was the sink wall in that kitchen, plus the patio door in the attached DR. We like the wood stains and loved those cabinets. There was lots of light and it just worked. (That wall through the doorway was not green! It was a light gray that for some reason photos green. Weird.)

What size are the samples and where do you get them? (never heard of this)

We worked for a while with a local kitchen/bath place and they had full size sample doors that you could take home and preview in your space. Many kitchen/bath places have a similar arrangement. If you have a local cabinet maker, they will generally provide you with a color sample. If you go Ikea or one of the online companies, you can order a door that you pay for; at Ikea you can even return a door you bought to see it in place. Sometimes you can get Big Box to lend you their little color samples if you promise on your life that you'll bring it back in an hour or so.

suzanne, I had no idea that some places (any place really) had actual sample doors to loan out. So glad I asked you about that. It would definitely help to see something life size. Thanks!