Over baking is never good. It does sound like too much heat is an issue. Unless caramelization (toast) is part of the flavor you're looking for, baking at a lower temperature, like 325-330, can be better. Too much heat also makes for a dry, more crumbly cake. Insulating the sides can help with doming, and you can buy special wrap strips for the purpose, but once you get the knack and the right methods for your own oven down, it shouldn't be required. Some people do the bang to drive out air pockets, others use pour patterns and/or spreading with a tool. Leveling is worthwhile, but not fussing. You need to get the batter in the pans and straight into the oven. Most people remove slight doming with a long knife or wire leveler.

I usually eyeball the division and it's good enough. A scale is the best way to get precision. That's true for the ingredients too. I can bake a cake without a recipe or proper measuring, but if you want to make a particular cake, measuring is key, and weight is more accurate than volume. Weigh your mixing bowl and pans ahead of time and keep a list for if you forget. Weigh the batter in the bowl and subtract that weight of the bowl. Pour just under half in the first pan, and the same amount in the second pan. Divide the remainder remembering that some will stick to the bowl. Grams are easier math as well as smaller measures than ounces. More recipes are metric as well. Converting from volume to mass is inexact. It could give a starting place for converting the recipe, but would likely need to be tweaked.

i do the grease and dust method, and take time to make sure it's very thorough. Cocoa for chocolate cake. Most often a very fine flour, or barley flour (Wondra) for regular cake. There are also recipes for making release goop from fat and flour. You'll find a number of them if you search this forum.

Thanks for the detail plllog. I was a chemist for many years, so I understand you clearly. I do have a scale that could certainly work for pans although perhaps not larger bowls. Yes, I had considered weight methods, but I had suspected that many here use other approaches. I'm glad that the eyeball approach is often good enough. You would think a chemist would be a good estimator. I usually am, but have found with batter, that I need some practice.

Were you saying that finer flour (or cocoa) would be a better choice for the release agent in preference to regular flour to dust the pan? Or, re Goop; I thought the 'better than Pam' was already flour and something; were you suggesting using that mix as the grease and then dusting with more flour (or fine flour)? I think I was using Crisco as the grease.

I suppose I should have an oven thermometer, but from other results I had suspected that it was set properly. I'm also not sure I would believe most store thermometers anyway. I don't have a Thermopen but aside from cost, wonder if it can be used for that purpose anyway. However, I can certainly see how a lower temp. & longer time would help even out edge to center problems.

For a special "for company" cake I always grease the pan, add parchment cut to size, and grease adn flour the parchment...usually grease with butter and sometimes flour with cocoa...but only for chocolate cakes.
Cakes always dome somewhat unless you seriously under bake....just slice off the domed part...or be lazy and turn the bottom layer dome down and put the top layer dome up. Professional wedding cake bakers, slice off the domed part.

Many variables can cause a domed top. Uneven heating is one. When I'm baking a cake that I will be decorating, I use these insulating strips that are sold specifically for the purpose of preventing the domed top. Mine are just plain silver color. They really do work. As for greasing the pans, I use the "Better than Pam" that was shared on this forum. But, in a pinch, Baker's Joy works just as well. I use the toothpick method to check for doneness, but usually I check to make sure that the cake is just slightly pulling away from the pan as well.

If I'm not using the insulating strips and want the cake to be flat on top, I just use my bread knife or a piece of floss to make a slice from the top. Nobody complains that I need someone to eat the piece I cut off.

I've rarely had a cake that didn't "dome" somewhat. If I want a flat one I do as Linda says and cut off the dome part (and it's part of the cook's prize -- LOL) or I just put the domes together when I frost (depending on how much the dome is). I've seen chefs on cooking shows do the same thing so I would assume it is more common to dome rather than to not.

Videos of cake frosting on line show how to level your layers. It is the rule rather than the exception to have a cake layer dome somewhat. What to avoid are peaks!! LOL! Domes are good!
Lowering the temperature will result in a flatter cake but in a less risen cake...more dense.
I like a higher layer....but to each his own.
Also how your cake bakes depends on the pan...the weight of the aluminum and if it's aluminum rather than steel. I have a couple of old tin coated steel pans....they bake a very nice even cake.

I've used the Bake Even strips and they help prevent/ minimize doming.

The strips are a little pricey, especially when you might make only a couple of layer cakes a year, or a decade. I found mine at a garage sale for a dollar or two.

To make budget strips, you can cut strips of an old cotton terrycloth towel, wide enough to be doubled lengthwise, wet the towel and wring it out and wrap around the pan. Pin it in place. If you plan to reuse them, it would be a good idea to sew the towel into a long strip and turn it so the raw edges are inside (like a long skinny pillow case). Otherwise, the frayed edges might catch fire.

I know of people who used wet strips of folded paper towel.

So, for the eyeball method, look at the edges where the levelled batter meets the pan side up to the rim. That may sound obvious, but a lot of people look at the amount of batter rather than the amount space left.

I've never had a noticeably under risen cake baked at a lower temperature, but I use Rumsford which rises at a temperature well under 200° F., so there's not a huge difference for the baking powder between 325° and 350°. I've read that the chemistry of the baking powder has a bigger impact on rise than the exact temperature, and different baking powders give the best rise in different products (e.g., cake vs. cookies).

Re preparing the pans, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. If you use goop (Better Than Pam or similar), you just use the goop, which, as you said, has the flour in it. I generally use butter (occasionally spray oil or veg shortening) to coat the pan and then tap fine flour, or cocoa, all around and knock out the excess. For me, it's not so much that I think it's better, but it's what I've done since childhood and it works for me. Re the kind of flour, I've used regular AP and it works, but it's more likely to visibly cling to the cake. I also find it more likely to clump in the edges. I keep meaning to try the goop--there's another one besides Better than Pam--but haven't been baking enough recently.

You also asked about creaming. Dump cakes work (throw everything in a bowl, mix, bake). What creaming does is aerate the fat as well as distribute the sugar evenly. My best results are to start the butter, and beat until it's more inclined to be fluffy than clumpy (the friction also helps warm it up if it's cooler than you'd like. Add the sugar and beat until everything looks smooth and fluffy and the color is considerably lighter. If you start with white or very pale fat, however, the color won't change enough to go by. There are many methods, as you say. I don't know much about alternatives. If you feel like the air is getting in and the sugar is well spread around, it doesn't really matter how you got there.

Unless you are using a double acting baking powder that contains aluminum salts, the heat of the oven is not what makes it rise....it's mixing with liquid.

I like Argo baking powder; it is double acting and aluminum free. I can detect a weird taste in foods made w/ regular baking powder (the ones with aluminum--sodium aluminum phosphate.)

The Argo BP used to be kinda' hard to find but now my local Wal-Mart stocks it. Packaged in a square, squat plastic container that fits nicely in my spice drawer. I saved an empty container and filled it baking soda (and labeled the top w/ artist's tape) so I wouldn't confuse the two.

The Rumford is double acting from a single source. As I understand it, first it reacts when mixed with wet and then the result of the reaction reacts with the oven heat around 150° F or so. Or something like that. I think the latter is only about a third of the rise.

ETA found the info: Rumford Baking Powder contains only monocalcium
phosphate as a leavening acid. Due to the nature of how this acid
releases carbon dioxide gas with sodium bicarbonate in the presence of
moisture, two-thirds of the available gas is released within
approximately two minutes.


It then becomes dormant at room temperature due to the generation of an
intermediate form of dicalcium phosphate during the initial mixing. This
stage of the reaction contains only one hydrogen ion and requires the
catalyst of heat above 140 degrees F. in the batter."


This may also explain why some baking powders are better for cookies and others for cakes. Cookies usually sit around as dough much longer, and get handled and molded. Clabber Girl, for instance, is listed as working 40% on moisture and the rest on heat, and for cookies you'd want more rise on heat. It also explains the rush to get the cake in the oven, especially if one uses Rumford.

From what I know that is correct...but the second rise happens about 140

I have only tried two 2 layer cakes

For a real beginner, start with a bundt cake. They're super-easy to get right; and because you have a hole in the middle, you'll cut down on the "doming" issue -- think about it; edges are easier to get done right, and a bundt pan has more edge. Also, a bundt cake doesn't require two layers to match up in equal sizes, and it's tasty without icing (master cakes, then move on to icing).

Get yourself a good heavy bundt pan-- a large one, 12-15 cups ... stay away from the smaller versions. NordicWare would be an ideal choice.
very lopsided.

Once your batter is poured into the pan, use your spatula to "smooth it out"; that is, even it out so that it's equally distributed throughout the pan.

I saw an on-line site that suggested insulating the outer pan edges to prevent them from cooking faster than the center,

A bundt pan will take care of this, and then you can move on to more complicated layer cakes once you've picked up some confidence. Personally, I use Easy-Strips only when I'm baking a large wedding cake; they will make no difference on a family-sized cake.

I also found that I probably under baked them even though a tooth pick came out clean.

The toothpick thing does work, but what you really want to look for is that the edges of the cake have started to "pull back from the pan". Once that happens, your cake is ready to come out of the oven.

No, never purposefully over-bake.

The texture was good but one edge stuck badly and I never got really good release from pans with any layer.

Here's a quick recipe that makes THE BEST stuff for making a cake release:

1/4 + 2 Tbsp flour

1/4 cup Crisco shortening

1/4 cup vegetable oil

Once these three items are mixed well, the pan-coating will sit in a cabinet at room temperature for 6 months or more. I store mine in an old, tall peanut butter jar, and I keep a silicone brush right in the jar. When you're ready to bake, spread this liberally over your pan, and NOTHING will stick. Seriously. Make this stuff. With this nasty-looking concoction, I can turn out an 18" wedding cake layer like it's nothing ... and, trust me, big cakes are waaaaay harder than family-sized cakes.

Easy-but-not-as-good option: Baker's Joy non-stick spray ... it's sold next to the PAM, and it's made for baking, whereas PAM is not.

An old-fashioned choice: Rub the inside of your pan with butter or Crisco (or even the butter wrapper). Do not mistake margarine for butter. Ever. Step 2, which cannot be skipped if you're using this method: Sprinkle about 1 Tbsp of flour into the pan and shake it around to cover the butter or Crisco ... then tap the excess into the garbage can.

A pro move: If you're baking a large cake or a very soft recipe, cut a piece of wax paper or parchment paper into a round and place it in the bottom of your cake pan -- yes, you must still use pan coating. Your layer cake will flip out of the cake pan super-easily, and you'll easily pull the wax /parchment paper off. Obviously you cannot do this if you're taking my advice and going with a bundt pan.

Final thought on release -- super important: Set a timer for 15 minutes. 10 if you must, but no less. When your cake comes out of the oven, set the pan on a wire grid so it can begin to cool. If you turn it out too soon, the sides won't be "ready" and the cake will flatten out a bit ... you don't want a squatty cake. If you wait too long, it'll attach itself to the pan and stick.

15 minutes is the magic sweet spot. The pan'll still be hot, so wear oven mitts ... place your cake plate on top of the pan and QUICKLY flip the two over, then remove the pan. If you're doing a layer cake, use multiple plates so each layer can cool completely.

I would not be trying to make a fancy, special cake; just something basic that can be duplicated.

I've recently fallen in love with the Nothing Bundt Cakes copycat recipes. They're widely available online, and they are quite tasty, while being super easy. They are doctored-up cake mixes made with extra eggs, sour cream and oil -- loads of taste and moist. Trust me: They don't taste like cake mixes. Try the Chocolate-Chocolate Chip recipe first!

Stay away from recipes that call for carbonated soda. I've never had good luck with them.

If you're making a lemon cake, and it calls for lemon juice, go the extra step and squeeze a real lemon.

A couple hints:

- Allow your cold ingredients to sit out on the counter an hour before you begin mixing. Yes, it makes a difference.

- Measure carefully and follow your directions exactly. Once you're an accomplished baker, you'll be able to substitute applesauce for your oil, etc. But beginners should follow the instructions ... you'll get there; don't rush.

- Add your eggs one at a time (I usually break mine into a small measuring cup and pour them in one at a time) ... scrape the sides of the bowl and beat between each egg. What you're doing is incorporating air and really building your batter. Mix your batter about 5 minutes. When you begin mixing your batter, it will look thin and flat ... but about 3 minutes it'll look thicker, even a bit fluffy, and you should see an increase in quantity. Don't rush. On the other hand, you can over-beat some recipes, so unless the recipe calls for it, don't go more than 5 minutes after the last egg. A stand mixer really makes this easier.

- Yeah, you can bang the pan on the counter, if you wish. What you're really doing is working "bubbles" to the top, but that's not a big issue.

- Do not overfill your pan. It will impede a good bake. If you're using a 12-15 cup bundt pan and one of the Nothing Bundt Cake copycat recipes, as I recommend, you'll be right on the money.

- Have the oven hot and ready. Once you've mixed your batter and filled your pan, it ought to go into the oven RIGHT AWAY. Sitting around waiting for the oven to heat is not a good thing.

multiple creaming methods

Many from-scratch recipes have you begin by creaming together your butter and sugar. Just combine them in your mixer bowl and go to town. Stop and scrape down the sides. This should take 2-3 minutes.

chas, the creaming method I use depends on the cake I'm making. Most of mine use the good old fashioned "cream the butter and sugar" method, I beat it maybe 2 minutes on the KitchenAid, I used to cream it longer when I had to do it by hand. Grandma used to tell me "200 strokes", I'm glad I don't do that any more.

As for doming, it happens. You can either cut the domed top off, or use the handy dandy method Sol told me about, which is to leave the cake in the pan when you remove it from the oven, cover it with a sturdy towel (be careful, it's HOT), and just gently press it down in the center and around the edges until it's all even with the sides. This probably won't work as well if you're using a cake mix, as I find those to be very "fluffy", but it works well with my scratch cakes. Otherwise, I have a cake leveler which works OK, but a wooden ruler and a long serrated bread knife levels my layers if I do have to cut off the domes.

I also bake at about 325 for a longer period of time, because my cakes just come out better that way. Most recipes don't call for that, but I do it anyway.

I always use parchment if I'm going to turn a cake out of the pan. Mostly I use homemade pan greaser (1 cup each flour/shortening/oil), but I've successfully used the Baking Secret spray or just greased and floured the pan. I don't let the cakes set in the pan, I just give them the quick "squish" to level the tops and then turn them out onto cooking racks. The parchment paper usually is stuck to the bottom of the layer, I peel that off and flip the layers over so they are right side up, otherwise the tops can stick to the wire cooling racks. It's easy if you have an extra rack, just sandwich the layer between two racks and flip it right side up. Or use a wide bench scraper if you have one, but be careful, the hot cakes are both fragile and hot!

I never weigh anything, although I do have a kitchen scale. That I cannot locate, LOL, so there's that. I just use a measuring cup and put the same amount into each pan, eyeballing it when I get to the end of the batter so there's approximately the same in each pan.

I think that's all the "tips" I have. I'm not a chemist, not a scientist, not an engineer. I tend to be kind of slap-dash when I cook or bake. I find a recipe I like, mostly follow it although I tend to add "flavorings" at will, like espresso powder to chocolate, almond extract in addition to vanilla in yellow cake, orange or lemon if I just feel like it, well, you get the idea. I always grease the pan, and use parchment and I try to get close to the same amount of batter in each pan. I bake it at a temperature other than called for the in the recipe and I cover it with a towel and squash it down when it first comes out of the oven. I turn it out of the pan hot and I find that frosting will cover a lot of imperfections. If frosting doesn't quite do it, there are always sprinkles. Oh, and usually someone always finds a skewer or two, because I'm always afraid a layer will slide and so I pin them together with wooden skewers. At least two, maybe more. :-)

Good luck and remember that it's all going to taste good anyway, even if it doesn't look exactly as you had planned. Yeah. That happens. A lot. To me, anyway.

Annie