I want to hear about this too. I have Soeur Emmanuelle too...but it was a bareroot this summer.

What I know of it is that the fragrance is really good!!! It's had some blooms, but not many so far. But, then, it's a baby still.

Carol

Lily and Carol, I, too, want to know more about these roses. I know that flowersaremusic raises Leonardo, and I have been nagging her for pics. But more information would be really welcome. I also love Soeur Emmanuelle just from seeing the photo on Palatine's website. So, Carol, when you have more info about her, it will be great to see what you have to say, plus pics, of course. I think Palatine carries both of these roses.

If you can manage to find the March issue of Better Homes & Gardens magazine (or go to their website and root around and find the article), you have got to see how one guy covered his cottage and surrounded it with the Leonardo climbing and bush forms of this rose. It's incredibly lovely and illustrates how using just one rose can be so effective around a cottage garden. The article doesn't have much of a title--"Pretty in Pink (and Purple, too)". Of course, there are purple iris, astilbe in fuschia, and other flowers, but only one type of rose that I could see. The cottage was in the Hamptons on Long Island, of course. I can dream, though. Diane

I left out the March 2015 issue, not the 2017 one. Diane

I grow both of these roses in the same garden bed - part sun, lots of water, well amended bed. My first observation is that both have grown tall and narrow. LdV has flopped his canes all over his neighbors in every direction (he's four years old from Palatine). Soeur Emmanuelle is only in its second year, also from Palatine, but she's more upright. She stands upright much better than LdV, though she also drapes canes over her neighbors at present. Both are surprisingly hardy for me and usually have had some surviving cane in zone 5 winters. They both seem to want to bloom at the end of tall bushes, at least waist to chest high on me. To put that in perspective, that's how tall the neighboring Ascot is in the same bed, so add a few feet in zone 7 based on Diane's terrific photos of that rose.

Here's a bush shot of LdV from May last year - it was still regrowing from the winter so it's much shorter and tidier than it gets later in the season. The color is by far the darkest I've ever seen it, and it doesn't usually get that coral pink tone in warmer weather:

Here's a more typical picture of LdV with the lighter pink color. Notice how he's attacking all his neighbors? I've never yet seen him put out laterals from these long drooping canes but I keep hoping he will. He was three years old at this point.

Here's a relatively typical bloom from Soeur Emmanuelle, on the lighter side. Notice how the buds are contrasting a darker pink. Sometimes SE can get more of a medium pink, but both of these roses are a light-to-medium pink most times.

She can have a cupped form at times and in this photo you see some of the more medium pink color coming out.

I don't have any full bush shots of her, partly because she sprawls a lot too, but also because she's only in her second year. Given that, I'd probably give the edge to Soeur Emmanuelle if I only had one of them. The blooms are larger, and you can see from the bud/bloom photo that they can cluster nicely. In this bed, there are about three pink roses that really catch my eye with "whoa, what rose is THAT" - these would be Wedding Bells, Beverly, and Soeur Emmanuelle. LdV blooms relatively often but all along the narrow canes and the blooms are smaller. It's also harder to notice his blooms when they're lying prostrate on the ground.

Hope this helps. I have high hopes for SE by next year, and it's so lovely to have these big beautiful blooms be hardy as well. No clue about fragrance since I don't have a good sense of that.

Cynthia

Cynthia - It's also harder to notice his blooms when they're lying prostrate on the ground. - LOL!! You give a good comparison.

My Soeur Emmanuelle is upright...but then I do prune for that.

Carol

I have a young Soeur Emmanuel aka Towering Rose Magic.

Ok... so the Ludwigs catalog says it's a stiff climber, good for a trellis or archway, speading out after 2 meters (6 feet). I'm going off that description because it makes more sense for my climate. HMF has something totally different. I think that HMF is wrong about this one...but what do I know.

Mine is in its first year here. It's not as tall as a few other climbers yet, but I put it in the shade so I don't expect it to be huge. Got it from Palatine. It's been over 105 here for a few days so this photo is not going to showcase it well, but since it's in the shade it's not totally fried. It gives you an idea of what it would look like if you lived near the flames of hell....

The fragrance is a mixture of baby powder, roses, raspberries, and some spice like anise... but not quite. Maybe like cardamom and vanilla? I don't know... but it's a unique fragrance and I like it.

Little bit of mildew currently but don't hold that against it. It's the crazy heat.

Something else I like about this rose... in the spring the buds were deep blackish red before they opened to baby pink. It was a gorgeous juxtaposition.

You two sure sure know how to sing its praises - scent and color!!

Carol

The scent is really unique. The Delbard site says the scent is anise, basil, fennel and lavender. I would have never put that together... but I guess there is actually a scent of each in the fragrance. There's fruit and roses in the fragrance too though. It's not ALL Herbs de Provence. It's really nice.

Oldrosarian - !!!!!! - talk about gorgeous flowers!! I love how the rims of each petal has the lightness...like Pink Peace does - like a silver lining. Wow!!

Carol

Lily you have a lot of land... you should get both and put em up against that darling ranch fencing... ;-)

Oldrosarian, what gorgeous photos of Leonardo, and what a unique, striking color the blooms have. It's going to be hard to resist ordering Leonardo from Palatine. Diane

Diane, I've been waiting for blooms from Leonardo so I can get a photo for you. He bloomed non stop all summer, then, when you asked to see him, I had just deadheaded. He took forever to get back in the swing of things. I just noticed a bloom on him tonight when I was watering, so I will try to get a pic tomorrow.

Because of this inferno we've had all summer, his blooms are smaller, flatter and more coral than he was last year. He does bloom a lot and the petals don't fry - they're just not as pretty as they should be. He's not even close to the perfection of Oldrosarian's LdV. Mine is own root, one yr. old.

I don't mind the flopping and intermingling of blooms, in fact, I like that look. I've planted a hedge of all large roses, using some climbers as shrubs, hoping they will close the gaps between them and kind of drape into each other. Leo is one of them, but so far, he is very upright.

Nippstress, that is one gorgeous photo of Soeur Emmanuelle with her darker buds. The only thing stopping me from ordering this rose is that she is a HT. I haven't been successful with HTs. I'm nursing Dainty Bess along, but she's not looking good and I'm losing the battle with Grand Dame, even though she's easy for everyone else.

Thanks, flowers. I understand about blooms not looking as good in the blasted heat. But I'd still like to see your rose. Good luck with Dainty Bess. How is Rouge Royale doing for you? Maybe we should talk about that on the seasonal thread-heh. Diane

Now see Cori Ann - THAT'S the kind of message I needed to hear before I planted Soeur Emmanuelle where I did. I checked hmf and it said 39" so I planted it at the front of the bed. If I'd known it was reputed to be a climber ANYWHERE I'd have planted it much farther back. Harumph - maybe the name "Towering" Rose Magic should have given me a clue. That makes three roses in the center of this bed that are wildly misplaced, all of which turn out to be climbers (SE, Hella, and Aloha Hawaii). I get the excuse for Aloha Hawaii because it was mislabeled, but Hella was another one that hmf didn't list as a climber and boy is it. Like these two roses under discussion, it loves to drape itself over its neighbors like a tipsy college student.

Suffice to say that both of these roses get long canes even for me in a cold zone, so I'd expect big wherever you are. I don't get the stunningly gorgeous pictures that Oldrosarian shows of my LdV and my SE doesn't have the structure and stability that Cori Ann has, but they both have a presence in the yard. I know what you mean flowersaremusic about LdV not looking as good as he could during parts of the year. Some of that is the relatively small blooms (even though they're nice ones). Glad you like the SE picture.

And Diane, why on earth do you need to resist ordering Leonardo, particularly from Palatine? C'mon, you know you're going to place a Palatine order when they post the orders here in mid-September (can you tell I'm counting the days). I think Leonardo would be a stellar companion for your breathtaking Munstead Wood and Golden Celebration. Resistance is futile...

Cynthia

Diane, I am swallowing my pride and posting my poor pitiful Leo for you. Old Rosarian, please don't look. He actually looks worse than the photo. The own root plant, new last year, is 2.5' tall, upright, healthy, blooms quite a lot, but he doesn't like the dry heat here. He might prefer a little shade. At present he is producing buds, but this is the only bloom. I'm not photographing the whole plant because that area is a work in progress and it would embarrass me even further.

Leonardo da Vinci, heat stressed. Small and more coral than photo shows.

Wowwweeee these photos are fantastic! Thanks everyone for your contribution. I was hoping to feel swayed one way or the other bit of course I feel like I need both. They seem just different enough in color , leo seeming a bit more coral . I was hoping to order one of these from palantine, of course the must have ascot and a yellow or some other color to break it up a bit .

Diane I really hope to find that archived garden spread somehow! I started to look but got distracted.

Flowers , your photo is beautiful! I agree about souer being a hybrid tea and not my thing either but I have been enjoying them for cut flowers so thought I may expand my small collection.

Cori Ann as always thanks for your valuable help! Your fragrance description could sell me anything! I know I have the land to spread out but I am trying to keep inside my little area but may has well give up on that idea. I also just fell in love with dahlias and need more perennials too so what the heck! I just have to leave a little lawn for a swing set ;)

Oldrosarian your photos are always so beautiful ! Are there any other romanticas you recommend?

Im going back to palantine site to see how much shipping is for more than 3 roses . So exciting for next year already !!

Flowers - that is a stunning pic of LdV!!! Gorgeous!! Absolute perfection!

Cynthia - Towering Rose Magic - I should have paid attention to that too. LOL Mine is in a pot. Hopefully it will be a stiff "climber" like my Night Owl which need zero support.

Carol

Wait a min .. up to 9 roses for 30 shipping to my house ?! Amazing.

Gonna need a bigger allowance;)

Maybe early Christmas?

Flowers, thank you for posting you LdV photo. You have absolutely nothing to be embarrassed by. That's a great photo. Are the blooms small? Some descriptions say 5 Inch diameter, but that's not what I'm hearing around here. The unique pink of LdV is supposed to be Bengal Pink. It's a term not used much anymore, but google shows some good examples of this color.

Cynthia, I doubt I get LdV because I've seriously run out of space. Even with my rule "new rose in, another rose out," I still have a couple of extra roses needing a space. And then there is my age...but that's another discussion. Diane

You are all very kind. The photo makes Leo look much better than he is. The blooms are about 2.5" and flat. And, coral. I like coral, but he's supposed to be, as Diane says, Bengal Pink. I should move him to a cooler spot, but, then next year will be the coolest on record! I'm hoping in time, the roses on either side of him can provide some shade. He's part of my hedge of assorted colors. They're all large shrubs or climbers I'm growing as shrubs along my driveway that curves around the back half of our weirdly shaped property. A photo of Anne Belovitch's ramblers was my inspiration. There once was a website of her acreage of hundreds of ramblers, but it has since been taken down. The roses are probably all in her book, Ramblers. Yikes, sorry for getting so off topic! I was rambling. :)

Lilyfinch, I completely forgot it was you who started this thread. Please don't go by my Leonardo. In your climate, yours would surely look more like oldrosarian's photos. And, Diane, since I'm all over the place topic wise, I might as well say Rouge Royale, own root band, was just planted. I think she's a HT, and that's just asking for trouble for me.

Flowers, the result of that terrific photo is that we're now no longer going to believe you when you say your pictures are terrible, and brow beat you to post even more strongly in other threads (smile).

Diane, my philosophy that I'd like to adopt is to have at least as many roses as years I've been alive. Given that I keep expanding my roses exponentially, I may live forever (or maybe it'll just seem like that).

Cynthia

Yes, flowers, Rouge Royale is a hybrid tea, as is Frederic Mistral, Abbaye de Cluny, and Pink Traviata. They are all Romanticas I have or did have. None are very cold hardy, but Abbaye is best. Leonardo is a floribunda, I think. But you should check on that.

Cynthia, don't you have to live those years first? That would mean I could get a few more roses. I don't think I have the energy, though. Don't you have about 1000 roses? I can just envision you gardening on Mars in 1000 years; I don't want to think about what I would look like if I were 1000 years old--probably like a pile of rose fertilizer-ha. Diane

Yep Diane, just short of 1000 this year after the new plantings and deaths over the winter evened out more or less. I figure the more stooped I get with age, the easier it'll be to prune the knee-high fussy pants roses (smile). I've heard that gardening is one of the best activities to fight arthritis, of which I have plenty, so in a sense all those roses are helping me to live longer (or at least healthier and happier). I'm sure I'll start paring them down with natural selection at some point, but once I retire I'll have more time to balance out the less energy. At least that's the plan. Mars is out as far as roses go though, since I absolutely can't fathom the shipping costs that far.

Back to Romanticas, I agree that Abbaye de Cluny is very nicely hardy and it's survived about 8 years in my virtual zone 4 pocket. Frederic Mistral wants a virtual zone 6 spot, Pink Traviata is fine in a regular zone 5 spot, and Rouge Royale simply won't survive for me anywhere, like Liv Tyler. Too bad as they're lovely roses.

Cynthia

I hope I haven't made a mistake getting Rouge Royale. I had her a few years back, but she fell prey to voles. They ate the roots out from under the roses around the perimeter of my now defunct veggie garden, except for Yolande d'Aragon. For some reason, they left her alone. Rouge Royale was one of my favorites, however, she never got very big.

My Frederic Mistral is definitely zone 7. We had a zone 6 winter last year and a bad one in in 2014, and he's a mess. I must dig him up to make room for Twig Darby. I grew Fred for at least 10 years, and he grew in a protected spot, too.....I can't believe your Pink Traviata is so hardy..... Please excuse me, Lily, for all these topics, but at least they're about Romanticas. Diane

Frederic Mistral in June 2017; the loggy canes are gone, and there is a nice new one, but I haven't the years to nurse him back, and Twig awaits his spot.

Frederic Mistral in 2013

Diane I am very much enjoying this whole thread! These are very informative and you never know who may be curious down the road . Poor Fred! What a shame he declined so much . Will you move him somewhere else ?

Wait - 1000 roses? All by yourself? Do you just let them do their thing or do you fuss over each and every one with fertilizers, mulch, amendments, etc.? I remember back when I first found this forum, someone with a large garden, maybe you, saying they 'throw' a little alfalfa hay around them in the spring, and that's it. Maybe because my roses are young, they seem to need fussing over. Just deadheading my little garden takes it's toll on my back. I hope you have a staff !! I'm thoroughly gobsmacked!

Thanks for being so gracious, Lily. Sadly, Fred will be moved to a garbage can. He's a great rose in many ways (beautiful scent, lasts well in a vase), but he's a thrips magnet here, and can't take the cold. I really think he's a California guy because the heat doesn't bother him, and he always was the last to bloom in the spring. He also gets huge; by the end of 2013, he had put a couple of feet of growth on what is shown in the photo. That fence/wall behind him is 9 feet tall.

Flowers, yes, Cynthia has a staff--her kids-hahaha. She does admit to having good soil. The dirt here is pretty atrocious and was unbroken desert when I began gardening in this location. Amendments are absolutely necessary, as well as constant irrigation, of course, with plenty of extra hand watering when needed. Which costs a fortune (9-10 inches of precip per year, as I tell everyone). These factors can really limit how many roses you can take care of, or afford to water. ....My Rouge Royale was in a huge nursery pot, and started off large. It's way bigger now, and has bloomed on and off all summer. You need to get one at Edwards here in Boise, flowers. Of course, my RR may freeze to death this winter. Diane

I've had Leonardo awhile but I don't have a good plant of it in the ground. I think the one I planted last fall is going to be good eventually. My friend nearby had Leonardo and his plant was stunning....big, shrubby, and covered with blooms. I like the color better than Soeur Em. so far.

I also planted my Soeur E in the wrong place, right at the front of a border. It is going to be big. Rebloom is great. The form is improving all the time, and so is the color. But the color to me was kind of a somber mauve this spring. I think it was just that the plant was very new.

I agree Frederic Mistral is cold sensitive. Mine was a body bag plant from Home Depot. It has been one of my best roses...about 6'x 5' , a great bloomer. It's a bit bs prone and tender but very fragrant.

Such an informative thread -- great pics & info about lots of roses not just those in subject line. Can anyone comment on vase life on either LdV or SE...?

Diane - gorgeous picture of Frederick Mistral, and it eases my heart to see so many of you describe him as a zone 7+ rose. I had one perfectly gorgeous year from him and have since tried three times to get him to survive my winters. Based on your advice, this is his last year, as he now has space in the fussy pants bed that is my "live or hit the highway" spot. With my luck, he'll hover in some suspended animation between life and death like a lot of marginally hardy roses in all their knee high glory.

Yep flowersaremusic - the only staff I have is the one my kids will give me some day to support my achin' back after too many years of stooping to plant and prune roses. No one else in the family does more than occasionally appreciate them, though my kids help with the fruits and vegetables occasionally (mostly eating - they're both taller than my 5' 9" at 15). I am probably one of the ones you recall saying I am a minimalist in rose care, and I do indeed literally throw alfalfa at them in the spring for a little top dressing. This year I really exerted myself to put out a cup of 10-10-10 and Ironite once this spring, and that was extraordinary care in my world. They get nothing but their decomposing leaf compost the rest of the year, though they start out with good soil and reasonable rain as Diane mentions. I'm sure they'd be happier with more food, but frankly I didn't see much benefit from the spring feeding this year so I am not that eager to repeat things. This time of year I spend maybe 3 hours a week deadheading and photographing them, and beyond that they're on their own. I don't remotely fuss over them, and I rarely find that it makes a difference if I do.

Back to the topic of Romanticas, I've been pretty impressed with Guy de Maupassant now that I have him in the fussy pants bed and he has survived the winter. He comes back with nice growth in spring, and like so many roses that say they're short he actually wants to be a 4' or taller bush even after being cut to the ground in spring. Nice large clusters as you can see from the photo below with buds waiting to pop, and good large full blooms in a dark carnation pink that doesn't fade too much.

I have high hopes for Honore de Balzac that's on the Palatine list for spring, and he gets a good spot as well. Michelangelo and Toulouse-Lautrec were among the "zombie" roses that limped along in my warm bed to finally succumb, so they're probably in the same category as Fred.

Cynthia

What happened to the Romantics? You don't see them in the catalogues anymore. The ones that grew well for me were Guy de Maupassant, Traviata, Yves Paiget, Polka, Leonardo da Vinci, Francois Rabelais, Peter Mayle and the Eden climbers. Both Eden 88 and the sport Red Eden, had a habit of not growing as a climber.Eden 88 got stuck at about 6 feet and Red Eden just stayed as a medium bush. Palatine's Eden is a good one. It shot up and is now running along the fence. I also found they demanded lots of water and lots of food. (French cuisine of course)

Eden 77

Red Eden

I had a big Michelangelo plant that did well. I like Francois Rabelais. Polka was good here even in part shade until roofers threw stuff on it.

Francois Rabelais

Traviata has done well here for a long time. It's very tall.